Apple iPad and related items
- Thread starter paolo
- Start date
- Status
sunnysidedown
caput mortuum
Apple are not cut throat enough when it comes to the app store afaic, they need to be even more ruthless in purging out some of that crap.
So, I'm interested - can you give me a list of say 5 applications that are worthy of our attention that Apple refused?
editor
hiraethified
Google Voice and a ton of Google Voice telephony services. The Opera browser. Any browser in fact. And so on.
And the concerns are growing:
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
The reasons are perfectly clear, IMO. They are "protect the user" and "protect Apple's control of the core experience"
The iphone is a device, not a general purpose computer. Nobody complains about not being able to install custom codecs on their DVD player, or custom wash cycles on their washing machine. Keeping the device simple and coherent is what makes the iphone good. If it weren't for the profit and market expansion that apps bring, I think Apple would prefer to keep the device entirely closed to developers.
editor
hiraethified
I can't say that chimes with my experience and Adobe have been quick to claim it works just fine on other mobile platforms:
Kanda
Diving wanker
You're not a Mac user...
Numerous reviews I have read about Flash on the Mac have slated it, one reviewer blocked all Flash content and didn't have any crashes or have to hard reset his PC any more...
editor
hiraethified
That's one reviewer.
I can't say I've ever encountered issues looking at Flash content whenever I've used a Mac (last time was on Saturday, in case you're wondering), and I can't say I've seen huge amounts of bad press from consumers all complaining about it either.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
It's ok, but fullscreen performance only just got good, and have you seen how it canes the processor? Flash on windows can access the gfx card for decoding acceleration. Apple only allow that through the Quicktime API (windows allows direct access to the video card from browser plugins)
elbows
Well-Known Member
As I mentioned earlier, flash performance on mac has not been great but the beta they released some months ago did finally give me flash video playback without silly cpu use.
The downsides to Apples strategy are easy to see, there are disturbing aspects which could have bad implications for the future.
The problem is that for all the barriers Apple put up, they are lowering one very important barrier, the ease of use of their new uncomputers. My dad is unlikely to go all over the place buying apps, but the app store works for him. I really didnt want to see another gatekeeper for mobile devices, but Apple have done it in a way that is quite compelling for many. There is an upside, even for many developers, and unless Apple totally lose the plot & their brand goes toxic, I dont know what will stop this phenomenon.
There are also big problems putting the energy of those who are vocal about computer freedoms to good use. Computer hardware & most important web services are controlled by corporations, whose business strategies could at any time call for the curbing of certain freedoms, no matter what tune they whistle today. Its not like I feel I should trust Google or Adobe more than Apple. Plus for all the waffle about openness = innovation, Apple have already shown that this isnt a golden rule, and I havent seen the open software world catching up as quickly as even a cynic like me expected them to - they have not learnt enough from the iphone. Plus I dont know what the ratios are but for every developer who is passionate about the open stuff, there are those that arent and are just getting paid to do what some corp wants, or are just getting on with using the development tools, languages, frameworks & platforms that they are already trained to use.
All I can really be greatful for is that so far Apple have not ruined the world of web standards, but have in fact been helping in this regard. Ive waffled on about h264 and html5 and flash already but some people remain in disbelief that flash could fade from the web quickly. Flash isnt going to vanish quickly, and may well stick around for IE users for quite some time, but I dont think people realise how easily a lot of the video on the internet can be freed from its flash wrapper - much of it is already h264 as the youtube html5 video beta demonstrates. Flash has already lost prominence in some of the other areas of the web that it used to dominate, as various javascript & other browser improvements have made AJAX suitable technology to use for various widgets. It will probably take ages for flash to be displaced in the casual web-game space, but overall there is a very high chance of it being significantly marginalised in the next few years. Over the years flash has always been used to do things that couldnt be done with the browsers of the day, so as browsers get better its only natural that flash becomes less needed.
Being a web developer I cannot help but like Apple for being part of the solution rather than the problem, if that ever changes when it comes to browsers on their mobile devices then I will be the first to go nutty and hate on them.
The downsides to Apples strategy are easy to see, there are disturbing aspects which could have bad implications for the future.
The problem is that for all the barriers Apple put up, they are lowering one very important barrier, the ease of use of their new uncomputers. My dad is unlikely to go all over the place buying apps, but the app store works for him. I really didnt want to see another gatekeeper for mobile devices, but Apple have done it in a way that is quite compelling for many. There is an upside, even for many developers, and unless Apple totally lose the plot & their brand goes toxic, I dont know what will stop this phenomenon.
There are also big problems putting the energy of those who are vocal about computer freedoms to good use. Computer hardware & most important web services are controlled by corporations, whose business strategies could at any time call for the curbing of certain freedoms, no matter what tune they whistle today. Its not like I feel I should trust Google or Adobe more than Apple. Plus for all the waffle about openness = innovation, Apple have already shown that this isnt a golden rule, and I havent seen the open software world catching up as quickly as even a cynic like me expected them to - they have not learnt enough from the iphone. Plus I dont know what the ratios are but for every developer who is passionate about the open stuff, there are those that arent and are just getting paid to do what some corp wants, or are just getting on with using the development tools, languages, frameworks & platforms that they are already trained to use.
All I can really be greatful for is that so far Apple have not ruined the world of web standards, but have in fact been helping in this regard. Ive waffled on about h264 and html5 and flash already but some people remain in disbelief that flash could fade from the web quickly. Flash isnt going to vanish quickly, and may well stick around for IE users for quite some time, but I dont think people realise how easily a lot of the video on the internet can be freed from its flash wrapper - much of it is already h264 as the youtube html5 video beta demonstrates. Flash has already lost prominence in some of the other areas of the web that it used to dominate, as various javascript & other browser improvements have made AJAX suitable technology to use for various widgets. It will probably take ages for flash to be displaced in the casual web-game space, but overall there is a very high chance of it being significantly marginalised in the next few years. Over the years flash has always been used to do things that couldnt be done with the browsers of the day, so as browsers get better its only natural that flash becomes less needed.
Being a web developer I cannot help but like Apple for being part of the solution rather than the problem, if that ever changes when it comes to browsers on their mobile devices then I will be the first to go nutty and hate on them.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Those of you with iphones/touches have probably used the facebook app. It's really good isn't it? Better than the website in many ways. Here's what the developer of that app has to say about the ipad:
http://joehewitt.com/post/ipad/
http://joehewitt.com/post/ipad/
editor
hiraethified
Seems strange how he's suddenly not so bothered about Apple's app approval system.
Nothing's changed in the 'tyrannical' process he was so upset about, has it?
Tricky Mickey
regular as clockwork
IME, it's truly awful. the fan kicks in on macs running Flash video content almost instantly. Flash will be dead in 2 years - or so i hope.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I think he is still bothered by it, he refers to it in his ipad post. Being bothered by it does not mean he has to ignore the potential of the ipad though, seems he can see a bigger picture away from the apple gatekeeper issue.
From reading the following post by him, I get the idea that he is really into the web as an open platform that can overcome some of these issues whilst still enabling people to do innovative stuff on new mobile platforms.
http://joehewitt.com/post/on-middle-men/
Bingo, thats where Im at too, only with far far less skill than him.
editor
hiraethified
It's still strikes me as a fucking almighty u-turn and one that casts the odd doubt on th credibility of his comments.
One minute he's slagging off Apple's 'tyrannical App Store approval policies' claiming to be 'philosophically opposed to the existence of their review process' and stating how he hever wants to be part of a world, "where every developer must go through a middleman to get their software in the hands of user," and the next minute he's enthusiastically embracing a new device that uses the exact same process.
Call me cynical, but I wonder if he's got any apps coming out for the iPad?
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apple iPad is announced
I thought he was full of shit when he left the FB app tbh so none of this surprises me...
editor said:
I thought he was full of shit when he left the FB app tbh so none of this surprises me...
fen_boy
Exits gracefully.
I don't see anything contradictory in his posts. He embraces the OS not the approval process and his stance doesn't change on that. Though I do agree he's likely to have an iPad app in development.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Very much so, developers are after all used to having to deal with a very imperfect base on which they can build. In the grand scheme of humanity there is a danger that, much like scientists, developers can become too used to holding their nose and creating, no matter what ends their creations may end up being used for by others, or what precedents the process sets. But I dont think we are getting into that danger zone with mobile devices or what Apple does just yet.
Its nothing new that the iphone-os devices present both opportunities and risks to developers. There are a multitude of reasons why some developers will love it, others will have mixed feelings and some will try to ignore the platform if they are wedded to development tools & platforms which arent coming to the iphone.
Users can and should be vocal about limitations Apple imposes on them if they use certain Apple hardware, but when it comes to issues of closed or open development I am going to listen far more to developers, not users, because the developers are the ones directly affected who have to get on with it and generally dont have the luxury of sticking to the philosophical and political highground. Joe Hewitt has done some great things in the past, and this matters far more to me than whether some people think he's being inconsistent. I think he has been very clear about his motivations, what excites him and what alarms him, and is attempting to tread a very sensible path by looking again at webapps as a means to negate gatekeepers. If he just sticks with native apps and doesnt do webapps stuff again then that will represent a clearer gap between what he preaches and practices, and the stuff he develops will be of less interest to me because standards-based web applications are the area I am interested in.
This is at the heart of why I will gladly hold my nose and go Apple at the moment. They are delivering interesting devices that are better in various key ways than the alternatives. I would like to develop for them using standard (but very new) browser technologies, with the anticipation that in future there will be a much broader range of devices from different manufacturers that will support the same browser technologies.
This is one of the things that bugs be about those who claim that innovation always requires freedom. Balls. Apple are innovating in various ways, some of those ways are uncomfortably tied to closed and controlled, but that does not completely soil and make useless all the other innovations, which if they prove to fit humanity well will no doubt become part of a wider progress that is not tied to any single corporation. Open and free stuff can learn and grow from it, do it better one day, but pissing on other closed innovations because they dont follow some glorious doctrine is silly and a waste of effort.
Its nothing new that the iphone-os devices present both opportunities and risks to developers. There are a multitude of reasons why some developers will love it, others will have mixed feelings and some will try to ignore the platform if they are wedded to development tools & platforms which arent coming to the iphone.
Users can and should be vocal about limitations Apple imposes on them if they use certain Apple hardware, but when it comes to issues of closed or open development I am going to listen far more to developers, not users, because the developers are the ones directly affected who have to get on with it and generally dont have the luxury of sticking to the philosophical and political highground. Joe Hewitt has done some great things in the past, and this matters far more to me than whether some people think he's being inconsistent. I think he has been very clear about his motivations, what excites him and what alarms him, and is attempting to tread a very sensible path by looking again at webapps as a means to negate gatekeepers. If he just sticks with native apps and doesnt do webapps stuff again then that will represent a clearer gap between what he preaches and practices, and the stuff he develops will be of less interest to me because standards-based web applications are the area I am interested in.
This is at the heart of why I will gladly hold my nose and go Apple at the moment. They are delivering interesting devices that are better in various key ways than the alternatives. I would like to develop for them using standard (but very new) browser technologies, with the anticipation that in future there will be a much broader range of devices from different manufacturers that will support the same browser technologies.
This is one of the things that bugs be about those who claim that innovation always requires freedom. Balls. Apple are innovating in various ways, some of those ways are uncomfortably tied to closed and controlled, but that does not completely soil and make useless all the other innovations, which if they prove to fit humanity well will no doubt become part of a wider progress that is not tied to any single corporation. Open and free stuff can learn and grow from it, do it better one day, but pissing on other closed innovations because they dont follow some glorious doctrine is silly and a waste of effort.
sunnysidedown
caput mortuum
Watch out the hystericals will be burning you at the stake.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Perhaps but that's not the issue, it's the way he made such a big deal about it. Guy comes across as a bit a nob.
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
Has any one looked at the iBook controls with regard to control over purchased books. Can they be read on other devices? No? Can they be deleted like Amazon did on the Kindle? No mention of that? Are Apple going to censor books they don't like like they did on the iPhone? No mention.
Its a device headed to the Apple TV graveyard of interesting but ultimately too flawed to be of any use to anyone bar Apple clan members. Its an uninteresting product. I've no idea why people are still talking about it?
Roll on v4 of the iPhone OS.
Its a device headed to the Apple TV graveyard of interesting but ultimately too flawed to be of any use to anyone bar Apple clan members. Its an uninteresting product. I've no idea why people are still talking about it?
Roll on v4 of the iPhone OS.
editor
hiraethified
You seem quite determined to stir things up, don't you?
- Status
Similar threads
