Anyone else learning an instrument?

[girasol]

Been learning the guitar since Jan 2018 and started piano in Feb this year. Very addicted to both. Tips? Having a guided plan of action is extremely useful. Having allocated regular practice time also very important. I purchased lots of courses on Udemy (when there's a sale, they cost about £12 per course) and they were a game changer for the guitar - but they have lots of other instruments there too.

For the piano I got an app SimplyPiano. The piano addiction happened by accident as I was more focused on teaching my gd, but I ended up totally in love with it. The music theory is transferable between the instruments, so only have to learn that once...

I've played the berimbau for about 10 years, and I'm quite good at it, but that's a percussion instrument and I play that with a group of people, I hardly ever play it alone at home. Same for the djembe/atabaque. The guitar and piano are a lot more introspective and I've no plan of playing either in public, it's just something I like doing for the sake of it.

 

[Mation]

Realistically I could put quite a bit of time in, what I need to do is just start putting some time in!

Yeah, I know that one

Be warned - violin strings are eyewateringly expensive if you're using to buying, say, guitar strings. A full set of reasonable ones is going to set you back getting on for £30. If you buy very cheap (eg Astrea), they're probably going to put any learners off, as it will be much harder to get a decent sound out of them. These are reasonable, at ~£26:

D'Addario Ascenté Violin Strings, Set

Ascenté synthetic core strings produce a warm, wide tonal range, highly stable, perfect for beginners upward. Ascenté is a new set of strings designed for shor

www.thestringzone.co.uk

(for comparison purposes, the last set of strings I bought for using in the studio were about £90, and the set of 5 I have for the electric violin-from-heaven were £130).

But if you end up lighting a little talent fire, it'll be worth it...

Wow!

The very first thing I did with my cello was manage to break a string

Fortunately, it came with a spare set, but I ordered a new set straight away, not knowing if I was about to do this frequently. Haven't had to use them yet, so I don't know what they're like, but they look to my untrained eye just like the ones it came with, and cost me about 9 quid. Does it really make a difference how expensive they are? (Genuine question; I'm too newb to know.)

This is my standard right now.. Ha ha

What joy!

 

[girasol]

Got this on an email from a guitar website, I think it can be applied to anything that requires constant practice/dedication. People are problem solvers and skill building requires problem solving skills, they are little mysteries to investigate... The overcoming of obstacles is so satisfying, I think, partly due to the problem solving aspect of it.

-------------------------------------
The adversity paradox
“The resiliency of the human spirit is no less present in one walk of life than another. We must all find the most meaningful measure of success for ourselves, and then set out to exceed our own expectations.”
J. Barry Griswell
Why do we play guitar? What is the allure of such a finicky instrument?
Is it to hear the music? Other people can play it better. Is it to impress our friends and loved ones? Maybe sometimes, at first. But this won’t motivate us for the long haul.
Perhaps we play because when we pick up the guitar we face a clear and present challenge. We can work on finite physical problems and witness our incremental growth.
When engaged in the ritual of daily practice, we generally work on a few concrete hurdles. We learn the notes of pieces of music. We direct our fingers to do something just so, then direct them again when it’s not 100%.
In this, we meet myriad little frustrations. And the little frustrations are part of the fun. What we do is hard, but it feels good to do the work.
The “adversity paradox” is a term coined by J. Barry Griswell. It suggests that while we humans tend to avoid adversity, we do benefit by overcoming it.
And daily guitar practice is nothing if not a steady march against small adversities. Getting to the next chord on time, playing three notes in a row with the same volume and tone—we face constant difficulty.
And this is somehow comforting. The perpetual conquering of small obstacles gives us the feeling of progress. This progress tends to come slower than we would prefer, but it does come.
Playing classical guitar at our best takes every scrap of attention. There’s no bandwidth left for politics or drama. There’s no outside world—only the next string-crossing or chord change.
Over the weeks and months and years, we find a rhythm to our practice. Then we break it and have to find it again. We traverse peaks and valleys. We either keep with it or wish we had.
Daily practice adds an element to life that would otherwise be missing. The personal pursuit. A place to be alone and explore a meaningful study.
Each day we set our bar and strive to meet it. Some days we do, and other days we may fall short. And on others, we surprise ourselves.
In the big picture, simply showing up is all that matters. The magic happens beneath the surface, in the small moments. Not just as we play, but as we walk through life as one who plays.

 

[Epona]

I think my brother played cello for a bit when we were at school, I think he must have got one on loan from the school though (which was an excellent idea for kids to try out instruments) because I don't recall us actually having one! I think just in the school orchestra, but his main instrument was always the classical guitar, he did all of the exams and everything including grade 7 when he was a kid.

I never really took to "formal" music lessons and doing the exams and all.

 

[girasol]

I think my brother played cello for a bit when we were at school, I think he must have got one on loan from the school though (which was an excellent idea for kids to try out instruments) because I don't recall us actually having one! I think just in the school orchestra, but his main instrument was always the classical guitar, he did all of the exams and everything including grade 7 when he was a kid.

I never really took to "formal" music lessons and doing the exams and all.

Through the online courses I learned up to grade VI classical guitar pieces (although I can't play the grade VI pieces at full speed) and music theory but there's no way I'd put myself through the stress of doing LCM exams! I think it would ruin it for me.

 

[dessiato]

Many years ago I did Trinity violin exams, I really didn’t enjoy it, but it was expected. If I was to do any exams now I’m sure it would rob me of the pleasure of playing, it did last time.

 

[existentialist]

The very first thing I did with my cello was manage to break a string

Fortunately, it came with a spare set, but I ordered a new set straight away, not knowing if I was about to do this frequently. Haven't had to use them yet, so I don't know what they're like, but they look to my untrained eye just like the ones it came with, and cost me about 9 quid. Does it really make a difference how expensive they are? (Genuine question; I'm too newb to know.)

It's a tricky one. There's a sweet spot somewhere in the middle...really cheap strings tend to sound harsh, and if you're an inexperienced player, you kinda really need all the help you can get, so having horrible strings on a cheap instrument can be very discouraging. OTOH, it's hard to get your head around the idea of paying £100+ (probably more for a cello) for a set of strings.

My personal "sweet spot" was Thomastik Dominant strings - not really professional grade at twice the price, but still a LOT more expensive than cheaper strings. I was probably still only in my teens, though, when I had got to the point where it really did matter how good the strings were, and my parents were still paying for them anyway (in my mum's case, because she thought she had a little prodigy on her hands, and it was worth it for the ego trip ).

I did buy some cheap Chinese strings off eBay when I started playing again, about 15 years ago, but I took them off again and replaced them with Dominants at the first opportunity. So, the point, I suppose, is, we might not necessarily appreciate the difference between cheap strings and decent ones when we're just starting out, but I do wonder how many beginners get discouraged because they aren't happy with the sound they're making.

A related story - I switched to viola quite early on, but every now and again, I'd play a little violin. The instrument I used when that happened was a very nasty, cheap, Bulgarian "violin shaped object" that sounded harsh and horrible to my ears, so I pretty much gave up on ever playing violin - to me, it was an unpleasant sound 6" from my ears that I didn't take any pleasure in making. Many, many years later, my dad gave me his good violin (the 1796 one), and it was a revelation - warm, forgiving, just lovely to play. And I found myself wondering then, "would I have perhaps been happier playing the violin if the first violin I started to play sounded like this?".

There's no way around it, really. We can't give every beginner a Stradivarius, but I can't help wondering how many people give up early because the first instrument they got to play and hear themselves playing was a cheap, unforgiving instrument that wasn't ever going to sound lovely, even once they'd got quite competent...

 

[existentialist]

I think my brother played cello for a bit when we were at school, I think he must have got one on loan from the school though (which was an excellent idea for kids to try out instruments) because I don't recall us actually having one! I think just in the school orchestra, but his main instrument was always the classical guitar, he did all of the exams and everything including grade 7 when he was a kid.

I never really took to "formal" music lessons and doing the exams and all.

These are overrated, especially the exams. And I say that as someone who did ALL the exams - I even did Grade 8 in recorder, which nobody bothers with

 

[Epona]

These are overrated, especially the exams. And I say that as someone who did ALL the exams - I even did Grade 8 in recorder, which nobody bothers with

Yep agree with this, I did a couple of piano exams and it sapped any enjoyment out of it

 

[petee]

I want to learn to play guitar like Derek Bailey.

 

[Knotted]

ADHD and sticking at learning an instrument tip: Keep it available, to hand. Don't put it away.

 

[Mation]

I want to learn to play guitar like Derek Bailey.

Who is Derek Bailey?

ADHD and sticking at learning an instrument tip: Keep it available, to hand. Don't put it away.

Yeah, I've been ok thus far, but it's prolly not sustainable. Need to get a stand, but haven't yet found one that would work.

My cello looks like this beauty

 

[petee]

Who is Derek Bailey?

 

[Mation]

Got this on an email from a guitar website, I think it can be applied to anything that requires constant practice/dedication. People are problem solvers and skill building requires problem solving skills, they are little mysteries to investigate... The overcoming of obstacles is so satisfying, I think, partly due to the problem solving aspect of it.

-------------------------------------
The adversity paradox
“The resiliency of the human spirit is no less present in one walk of life than another. We must all find the most meaningful measure of success for ourselves, and then set out to exceed our own expectations.”
J. Barry Griswell
Why do we play guitar? What is the allure of such a finicky instrument?
Is it to hear the music? Other people can play it better. Is it to impress our friends and loved ones? Maybe sometimes, at first. But this won’t motivate us for the long haul.
Perhaps we play because when we pick up the guitar we face a clear and present challenge. We can work on finite physical problems and witness our incremental growth.
When engaged in the ritual of daily practice, we generally work on a few concrete hurdles. We learn the notes of pieces of music. We direct our fingers to do something just so, then direct them again when it’s not 100%.
In this, we meet myriad little frustrations. And the little frustrations are part of the fun. What we do is hard, but it feels good to do the work.
The “adversity paradox” is a term coined by J. Barry Griswell. It suggests that while we humans tend to avoid adversity, we do benefit by overcoming it.
And daily guitar practice is nothing if not a steady march against small adversities. Getting to the next chord on time, playing three notes in a row with the same volume and tone—we face constant difficulty.
And this is somehow comforting. The perpetual conquering of small obstacles gives us the feeling of progress. This progress tends to come slower than we would prefer, but it does come.
Playing classical guitar at our best takes every scrap of attention. There’s no bandwidth left for politics or drama. There’s no outside world—only the next string-crossing or chord change.
Over the weeks and months and years, we find a rhythm to our practice. Then we break it and have to find it again. We traverse peaks and valleys. We either keep with it or wish we had.
Daily practice adds an element to life that would otherwise be missing. The personal pursuit. A place to be alone and explore a meaningful study.
Each day we set our bar and strive to meet it. Some days we do, and other days we may fall short. And on others, we surprise ourselves.
In the big picture, simply showing up is all that matters. The magic happens beneath the surface, in the small moments. Not just as we play, but as we walk through life as one who plays.

Managed to read this now I'm back to my big screen.

How lovely and encouraging. Seems absolutely right.

(But could do with some paragraph spacing! )

 

[Mation]

I managed 10 seconds of that

 

[existentialist]

This is what it is supposed to sound like. And I'll excuse myself here with a bit of autobiographical shit.

My dad, apart from being a really rather competent violin player, had a penchant for overblown musical Victoriana, and extravaganzas of romanticised, often death-obsessed Victorian popular songs (like "Lost Chord" and "O For The Wings Of A Dove" (which he could reduce us to tears with when he'd suddenly raucously caw the angelic high notes of the treble solo) were a big part of my growing-up repertoire. FWIW, I shared his disrespect for, and amusement of, them.

Anyway, point being, I regretted then, and still regret now, that I never learned to play a keyboard instrument. We had a harmonium that I could bash out some basic shit on, but I'd be rather chuffed to be able to play Lost Chord.




PS: he sang a parody version, which, alas, seems to be undocumented.

It started:
"Seated at the organ one evening,
I was weary and ill at ease
I pulled out a stop called Autumn,
And added some Summer Breeze"

...and the rest is gone

 

[Knotted]

Who is Derek Bailey?

 

[Mumbles274]

I am trying to make a semi decent attempt at learning the violin, but on the way we have this

It might be getting to me!

 

[izz]

I am trying to make a semi decent attempt at learning the violin, but on the way we have this

It might be getting to me!

Just the way innit ? Teaching other people is piss easy but teaching ourselves something is intensely frustrating but what's going on is that even when we get it wrong we're still learning how to get it right

I think you're doing ok as it goes, how long have you been on it ? I've bought a cheap violin and am sawing my way through 'music with mummy' type 'tunes' and thankful I have somewhere to practice out of earshot

 

[Mumbles274]

Just the way innit ? Teaching other people is piss easy but teaching ourselves something is intensely frustrating but what's going on is that even when we get it wrong we're still learning how to get it right

I think you're doing ok as it goes, how long have you been on it ? I've bought a cheap violin and am sawing my way through 'music with mummy' type 'tunes' and thankful I have somewhere to practice out of earshot

I used to play when I was a kid, only been increasing my practicing a bit recently. Mainly trying to make sure I'm bowing and getting a good in tune note all the time

 

[Mumbles274]

I've uploaded an example of where I am really at with my fiddling. Hence the former video, it's fucking hard!!!

 

[existentialist]

I've uploaded an example of where I am really at with my fiddling. Hence the former video, it's fucking hard!!!

A couple of tips, FWIW.
1. Try and hold your bow at more of an angle to the strings. By which, I mean swivel the bow between your fingertips, moving the stick away, so that it's about 30-40% tilted. This will put the edge of the hair onto the string, rather than the full breadth of it, and you can control volume by (gently) applying pressure with the forefinger of your bow hand. Fiddle around with it, see how it feels. Best thing to do is, when you pick the bow up, set it on that swivel before you start playing. Once you get used to it, you'll find it gives you a LOT more control over your tone.
2. You've got your bow wound up too tight - the stick is nearly straight, and that's putting a lot of tension on the hairs, which will make them bouncy. Slacken it off a good fair bit.

But big props to you for being courageous enough to chuck a video up of you playing! You're doing great, and I admire your commitment. Keep it up.

 

[danski]

Started playing my (electronic) drum kit daily, a month or so back, after about four or five years on/off practice.
In all that time, I’ve probably only been playing about two years overall.

It feels really good right now. I’m still shit and doubt I could play and keep time for a three minute song but that was never my goal. I wanted to learn so I could make my own breakbeats to sample and put in my music, and to that end, I think I’m doing alright.

Oh, the main reason I started again was piss poor mental health. Just needed some kind of outlet. It’s working, I think.

 

[izz]

Bump ! What do we reckon to electric violins for learning on then ? Paging existentialist for starters

 

[existentialist]

Bump ! What do we reckon to electric violins for learning on then ? Paging existentialist for starters

OK, so the trouble here is this...

There are many electric violins (EVs) out there, some for as little as £100. Tempting, you might think. Except that they are really shit. I mean, REALLY shit. Quite possibly to the point of being so poor that any luckless beginner using one would probably give up, fling the thing in a skip, and go and learn the kazoo.

Remember, also, that an EV is going to require amplification, so you're out a bit for that, plus a preamp (did I mention that these things are shit? They usually have piezo-electric pickups that sound like a duck quacking if you plug them directly into a typical guitar amp).

Really, about the only advantage an EV has is that you can "silently" (but not as silently as you think) practice on them with headphones. But, TBH, you'd be better off spending the same money on an acoustic violin, and you'll have more to work with.

There are good electric violins out there. Yamaha did the SV series (I have an SV viola floating around here I don't need any more - cost £1750 new, though I got it for £500 from someone who'd won it in a competition). As good to play as my much more valuable acoustic viola. Tellers of viola jokes won't be surprised to learn that violas are often available at a discount to equivalent violins - I blame the tellers of viola jokes, personally.

The other problem with EVs is going to be the "electric guitar player" problem. This is where someone starts playing an instrument, and rapidly decides that their intonation/tone quality/timing is clearly a feature of some deficit in their audio chain, and start upgrading amplifiers, adding effects, buying special leads, etc. Far better to start with a chunk of wood, so that the relationship is purely between you and the instrument.

I play both. I have a halfway-decent violin (probably cost about £2k to buy), and an excellent viola, which is worth a lot more and belongs to my mother, ssssshh. I also have the Yamaha, an NS Designs thing (often regarded as at the posher end of the scale), plus a home-made thing which is roughly the equivalent of the Amazon £100 special. All of them do their thing very well (and yes, I do have an extensive effects chain on the NS, though I use about 3 of them), but it is so lovely sometimes to just pick up a violin, no kit, no amps, go off somewhere and play an unadorned instrument just as nature intended.

Save the EV for later, that's my advice.

 

[izz]

What a fan-fucking-tastic response Mr Fiddler, and I'm greatly reassured that I'm choosing the better option. Thank you hugely. I'll postpone it until I'm impressive

 

[Steel Icarus]

I'm learning the guitar...



...since 1989

 

[existentialist]

What a fan-fucking-tastic response Mr Fiddler, and I'm greatly reassured that I'm choosing the better option. Thank you hugely. I'll postpone it until I'm impressive

And if you fancy a half-decent electric viola, I know this guy...