Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Oink Oink
AMAZING speech made by Al Gore...
- Thread starter X-77
- Start date
Red Jezza said:
Fine. The U.N Charter is quite different from some other treaties. So what? The question is whether the U.S. Constitution makes provision for any sort of "super treaty" that governs America and Americans even if the provisions conflict with the U.S. Constitution. It does not. In America, and for Americans, the U.S. Constitution trumps all other laws or treaties. It's really just that simple. Take as an example the private possession of firearms. Some factions within the U.N. have been making noise about implementing a world-wide ban on such possession. The U.S. says no, since such a ban would conflict with the rights of Americans as established under the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Americans already have one, and only one, "over-arching set of instructions on how to shape...its societ(y)", and that set of instructions is the U.S. Constitution.
The U.S. Constitution prevails. Don't bother asking again.
Now, of course I understand your trivial little hypothetical point. If the U.S. agreed to some treaty (not just the President, mind, but the U.S. Senate as well; treaties are not valid until ratified) where the provisions conflicted with the U.S. Constitution (such conflict having been established by ruling of the U.S. Supreme Court), then the President and the rest of the Executive Branch would then be bound by the meaning of the Constitution as determined by the Supreme Court, and thus their actions might not comply with that part of the treaty found to be unconstitutional. Big fucking deal. We were not talking about some insignificant imaginary situation that has never occurred. We were talking about the hysterical ravings of ignorant and dishonest leftie dirtbags who claim that, as a matter of course, the U.S. doesn't honor its commitments. And those claims, like all such anti-American nonsense, are quite simply false.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
US, US uber alles ...
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
rogue yam said:
Not that you would accept any evidence of the US violating a treaty. We know that when you are confronted with such information you have a tendency to insult the other poster.
I've marked your card, pal.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
The NPT obliges the US to work in good faith towards nuclear disarmament. It did a bit of that after the fall of the Soviet Union, but now it's developing new nuclear weapons.
The US is also a signatory to the UN charter, which obliges it not to violate 'territorial integrity or political independence of any State'. It has repeatedly done the latter, e.g. in Pakistan last week.
You asked for examples of the US not honouring its treaty obligations, I provided them. It's not like they are in short supply. I don't see what me (arguably) being a psychotic hippy has to do with any of that.
The US is also a signatory to the UN charter, which obliges it not to violate 'territorial integrity or political independence of any State'. It has repeatedly done the latter, e.g. in Pakistan last week.
You asked for examples of the US not honouring its treaty obligations, I provided them. It's not like they are in short supply. I don't see what me (arguably) being a psychotic hippy has to do with any of that.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
rogue spam said:
You've done nothing but insult other posters and misrepresent what they've said. You've also got a piss poor line in insults. I mean, "retard", is that the best you can do?
A pop up toaster has greater intellectual capacity than you.
Bernie Gunther said:
You are completely stupid, dishonest, and worthless. The "universal disarmament" language of the NPT is a dead letter. You know this, but you lie about it because you are a complete and utter piece of shit. Tell the board (if you must keep lying) when was the last time the nuclear powers assembled to discuss total disarmament. Oh, never? So what is it that you are talking about? Oh right, nothing.
As for your "territorial integrity" crap, if someone is attacking us, their "territorial integrity" is worth quite exactly nothing. I know that this makes you cry, but your tears mean nothing to me.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
I'm afraid that I don't find your argument (about US treaty obligations I mean, you're probably right about the psychotic hippy thing) very convincing.
Do you have any better ones? Perhaps ones based on facts and logic?
Do you have any better ones? Perhaps ones based on facts and logic?
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
You asked for examples of the US violating its treaty obligations, I produced some. Saying that the obligations that it's violated are worthless doesn't mean that they aren't being violated.rogue yam said:
The last major discussion of total disarmament occurred last May.
http://www.un.org/events/npt2005/
Mostly in the context of the non-aligned states pointing out that the US is trying to use the treaty in a one-sided and potential destabilising way, while ignoring its obligation to work in good faith towards total disarmament as required by the treaty, and instead continuing to take part in nuke-sharing arrangements (e.g. within NATO) which constitute clear violations of NPT.
The US violations of the UN charter are even clearer and more numerous, and saying that you don't give a shit doesn't stop them being violations.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
In the general scheme of things, your denial of the obvious counts for very little. What matters more, is that much of the world thinks the US is untrustworthy, not least because of its extremely one-sided attitude to treaties and international law and tendency to get its way by using force.
You can sit there denying it all you like, but the world moves on without you.
You can sit there denying it all you like, but the world moves on without you.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
rogue yam said:
softwood lumber - nafta
(well, it's something
)
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
To be strictly fair, I did call him some rather nasty names the other night.
Although I subsequently reflected that they were lowering the tone of the boards, and removed them he's probably still a little bit upset.
Although I subsequently reflected that they were lowering the tone of the boards, and removed them he's probably still a little bit upset.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Bernie Gunther said:
And of course there's the quite hilarious irony that anyone reading Rogue Yam's opus of mendacity on this thread will find a fine example of why "much of the world thinks the US is untrustworthy", representative as it is of the widely-held perception of US interaction with the rest of the world.
Didn't take him long to fall back into his habit of unqualified psychiatric diagnoses and abuse aimed at deriding the intellect of others, did it? Can you smell intellectual insecurity as strongly as I can? Perhaps that's what happens when you abdicate free thought in favour of freeper groupthink?
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
rogue yam said:
RY If you read BG's post you will see a cast iron example of the American Govt breaching the NPT.
Also you do have the sitation where the US is threatening the integrity of other nations borders. Which is also a breach of UN treaties and agreements.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
rogue yam said:
When did PK attack you again?
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
rogue yam said:
Tell me RY (although you probably won't and other posters will have to supply the information that you obviously lack) how often the US territoryhas been under attack from another nation recently -- apart from Pearl Harbour I can't think of one.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
rogue yam said:
Then you are as bad as Al-Qaeda - targeting innocent citizens to further your own religious beliefs.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Oh really?
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
rogue yam said:
I seem to remember a couple of Bush speeches about his God giving him a dream or guidance or something. I also seem to remember Ms. Coultier (sp?) making some very pro-Christain statements. There was also some ruckus about teaching Intelligent Design as a science to American children.
These are the voices that America presents to the world. As pro-christain as the A-Q's religious nonsense.
As for the innocence of your victims - well, I guess they can't make an argument in their own defense now, can they?
Similar threads
