Alternative medicine/therapy adult courses dropped!

[reubeness]

I am fuming.
I decided to do a Reflexology ITEC course this year. Clapham Centre have been running an adult education class for years. Went online a few months back, the course was there, the fee was £250-odd. I applied online, everything OK.

Get a call to say this Reflexology course is under review but Morley College and Sutton do the same course so I should maybe apply to one of these.
Morley College do have a City and Guilds Reflexology course available, it costs a staggering £850! I can't anyway near afford that - £250 would have meant some extra work to raise it.
Now I've heard that Lambeth have no funding for any altenative health courses in 2008/9 so they've all been dropped. Who on earth can afford nearly a thousand pounds for an evening class.
I am so angry!! What's happening - feels like we're getting mugged daily.

 

[fogbat]

One down...

 

[tarannau]

It's all to do with a raft of recent studies which show Reflexology's benefits to be mixed at best. The more cynical amogst us would point out that a bit of amateur neck prodding (ok massage) as placebo beat the 'efficacy' of reflexology.

No reason why the courses should be subsidised with that increasingly in mind. To be fair, I'd rather money wasn't wasted on stuff like this and chicanery like homeopathy. That said, at least there's a physical aspect to reflexology - most would agree that massage, of which reflexology is a form off sorts, offer some heath benefits.

 

[selamlar]

TBH I'm surprised that Lambeth Council are one of the first to be sensible about alternative 'medicine', but its not before bloody time. Its a national scandal that public money is spend subsidising snake oil salespeople, imho.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

i did the course at morely college about five years ago - then it was about 350.

it compares favourably to the association of reflexologists course AOR which is 1,999 in their london centre

the morely course then allows you to join the international federation of reflexologists and practice

its not just a course to treat friends or family

the higher fees reflect the trainer and indicate the commitment needed for the course

I do sympathise with you finding the money to cover costs

maybe training in ITEC massage and physiology might be cheaper? it would then allow you to 'add on' reflexology, head massage and other theraputic massage qualifications at a later date

for the skeptics: I don't believe all the claims made for reflexology and I think anyone practising as a therapist has to make careful clinical analysis of what benefits their clients are getting

at the very least any massage therapy is going to help with blood and lymph circulation which in turn relieves stress on the body as waste is more easily eliminated and oxygen brought to tissues. this in turn promotes a more positive emotional state

I promote that as a really important ingredient of good health

 

[reubeness]

Oh my goodness - chicanery and snake oil salesmen!
Any of you actually used homeopathy or reflexology for your ailments?
And why shouldn't people interested and involved be offered subsidised adult education in these areas?
Last year I did herbal medicine - do you haters want to cuss that one too?
Narrow minded individuals taking over the asylum.

 

[DotCommunist]

This will go well....

 

[fogbat]

Thank you for your numerous and original defences of absolute tosh.

I can appreciate your disappointment that a course you wanted to do has suddenly been cancelled, though - that's got to be very frustrating.

 

[El Jefe]

And why shouldn't people interested and involved be offered subsidised adult education in these areas?

because I don't want my taxes spent on bullshit when hospitals and schools are already underfunded.

As for being narrow minded, what a lame comeback. One's opinion of reflexology is not a logical reflection of a degree of openmindedness, and it's facile and simplistic to claim it is.

 

[tarannau]

Oh my goodness - chicanery and snake oil salesmen!
Any of you actually used homeopathy or reflexology for your ailments?
And why shouldn't people interested and involved be offered subsidised adult education in these areas?
.

Nicve assumptions btw - an ex of 3 years was a trained reflexologist FWIW, primarily trying to help special school kids to relax.

From my point of view it's a relaxing pastime, with the touch aspect important. Studies have consistently shown that massage can offer benefits to health.

Unfortunately many of the same studies have shown that reflexology is no better, or is in fact worse, than 'standard' massage from less trained masseurs. The whole 'scientific' aspect of reflexology is sham to a large extent.

As a form of massage it's quite pleasant But there's no reason why folks should be expected to subsisidise the fake 'alternative health' scene when there are more effective, varied courses on offer. If you want to pay to learn foot rubs that's fine with me - but pay the going cost.

Would you argue that Reiki (snigger) should be offered on the NHS for example?

 

[reubeness]

thank you miss shelf, for your encouragement and positive information. I am already a qualified massage therapist (ITEC) I started reflexology at Lambeth three years ago but had to abandon it half way through due to family problems so I really wanted to get back in this year.
A friend of mine is working with pregnancy and reflexology in the Caribbean with some astonishing results for women giving birth, pain in labour. What I saw astonished me (I have four children of my own).
Anyhow, three months ago the Morley course was £458 and yesterday had gone up to £850. Although I understand the benefits of the qualification, £850 is beyond me.

 

[Skimix]

Could be worse, I was planning to do an MSc a few years ago but had to put it off for one reason or another. The fees for that have gone up from £3000 to £15,000

 

[kyser_soze]

Oh my goodness - chicanery and snake oil salesmen!
Any of you actually used homeopathy or reflexology for your ailments?
And why shouldn't people interested and involved be offered subsidised adult education in these areas?
Last year I did herbal medicine - do you haters want to cuss that one too?
Narrow minded individuals taking over the asylum.

I think the point being made is why should there be public subsidy (which to keep course costs down there is) going to fund something that doesn't have cliincally proven efficacy.

I agree, especially given the more serious issues with things like literacy and numeracy in boroughs like Lambeth.

 

[Looby]

I think the point being made is why should there be public subsidy (which to keep course costs down there is) going to fund something that doesn't have cliincally proven efficacy.

I agree, especially given the more serious issues with things like literacy and numeracy in boroughs like Lambeth.

Yup. I live in Dorset and last year when I tried to re-take GCSE maths to help me get into uni I was told they had cut all adult GCSE courses completely.

 

[kyser_soze]

That's fucking appalling, I mean really, really appalling.

Fuck, I sound like Prince Charles now.

 

[El Jefe]

That's fucking appalling, I mean really, really appalling.

Fuck, I sound like Prince Charles now.

No, fair enough. Stuff like that is fundamental and should be readily available. In that context, reflexology can go fuck itself.

 

[reubeness]

Some of you are so sarcastic and caustic - why shouldn't I have expectations about adult education. I also pay my taxes, have done for over 35 years. So why should your opinions about the correct subject matter take precedence over mine?
I am really glad that Osteopathy is available on the National Health, and Acupuncture.
Massage is of benefit to people there is no doubt about that - for all the reasons Miss Spelt outlines.

 

[El Jefe]

if maths courses are shutting and reflexology courses aren't (price hikes aside) something is very fucking wrong.

 

[tarannau]

Some of you are so sarcastic and caustic - why shouldn't I have expectations about adult education..

And my expectation is that adult education courses should be worthwhile and offer benefits to their students/recipients.

it's not about 'opinions' on the subject matter, it's about efficacy with a limited budget. And I, like the vast majority of people, would rather spend money on constructive maths or massage courses (for example) than useless courses designed to help charlatans profit out of others misfortunes and superstitions - take the ridiculous homeopathic industry for example.

 

[Looby]

I think what people mean is that until there are provisions for all adults to take basic literacy and numeracy courses and get a basic level of education ie GCSE then there shouldn't be money in the pot for other stuff. Ideally there should be funding available for a wide range of courses but there isn't. Simple as.

I can see it's disappointing for you but it's not all about you is it?

 

[baldrick]

Some of you are so sarcastic and caustic - why shouldn't I have expectations about adult education. I also pay my taxes, have done for over 35 years. So why should your opinions about the correct subject matter take precedence over mine?
I am really glad that Osteopathy is available on the National Health, and Acupuncture.
Massage is of benefit to people there is no doubt about that - for all the reasons Miss Spelt outlines.

I think it's a shame that your course has been cancelled. But I don't think courses like that should be subsidised. I think there should be different priorities in Adult Ed.

 

[untethered]

Some of you are so sarcastic and caustic - why shouldn't I have expectations about adult education. I also pay my taxes, have done for over 35 years. So why should your opinions about the correct subject matter take precedence over mine?

For the same reasons you wouldn't expect to find a subsidised course on astrology or credit card fraud.

Still, good to see that the people teaching reflexology are as keen to gouge the gullible as the ones that just sell it to the unwitting and credulous public.

 

[reubeness]

So why couldn't people here just point to the fact that adult education across the board is being culled and that courses like GCSE and literacy are under threat without the judgement, sarcasm and superiority?
Of course I would not defend 'my' needs over those of everybody else but many of you just make judgements, go on the offensive when you don't even know the circumstances of the poster you are attacking.
I am a single parent, work full time in admin, have little money, don't go out much - so I want to lose myself for a while in a subject I love - some of you fall over yourselves to put the boot in because my choices are unworthy in your opinion.
Now that you have collectively made me aware of the state of adult education it has put my situation in context.

 

[tarannau]

So why couldn't people here just point to the fact that adult education across the board is being culled and that courses like GCSE and literacy are under threat without the judgement, sarcasm and superiority?

Hold on, read (my) post 3 again. No sarcasm there at all - more a explanation of why these courses may be cancelled, plus a fairly dispassionate view of reflexology. I stand by my opinion of homeopathy as chicanery.

Why the hair trigger sensitivity on your part?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I am fuming.
I decided to do a Reflexology ITEC course this year. Clapham Centre have been running an adult education class for years. Went online a few months back, the course was there, the fee was £250-odd. I applied online, everything OK.

Get a call to say this Reflexology course is under review but Morley College and Sutton do the same course so I should maybe apply to one of these.
Morley College do have a City and Guilds Reflexology course available, it costs a staggering £850! I can't anyway near afford that - £250 would have meant some extra work to raise it.
Now I've heard that Lambeth have no funding for any altenative health courses in 2008/9 so they've all been dropped. Who on earth can afford nearly a thousand pounds for an evening class.
I am so angry!! What's happening - feels like we're getting mugged daily.

The arse seems to have fallen out of non-core FE funding full-stop, not just from "alternative" subjects. Over the last 3-4 years Lambeth (and just about every other education authority) have been trimming away all the marginal subjects like there's no tomorrow. It's not unusual for people to book and pay for courses, only to be told a week or so before the course that it's been axed, either because central funding has been withdrawn, or because not enough people subscribed.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Hold on, read (my) post 3 again. No sarcasm there at all - more a explanation of why these courses may be cancelled, plus a fairly dispassionate view of reflexology. I stand by my opinion of homeopathy as chicanery.

Why the hair trigger sensitivity on your part?

Because reubeness is actually just as opinionated as everyone else on the thread?

 

[Miss-Shelf]

The arse seems to have fallen out of non-core FE funding full-stop, not just from "alternative" subjects. Over the last 3-4 years Lambeth (and just about every other education authority) have been trimming away all the marginal subjects like there's no tomorrow. It's not unusual for people to book and pay for courses, only to be told a week or so before the course that it's been axed, either because central funding has been withdrawn, or because not enough people subscribed.

agree

 

[Miss-Shelf]

thank you miss shelf, for your encouragement and positive information. I am already a qualified massage therapist (ITEC) I started reflexology at Lambeth three years ago but had to abandon it half way through due to family problems so I really wanted to get back in this year.
A friend of mine is working with pregnancy and reflexology in the Caribbean with some astonishing results for women giving birth, pain in labour. What I saw astonished me (I have four children of my own).
Anyhow, three months ago the Morley course was £458 and yesterday had gone up to £850. Although I understand the benefits of the qualification, £850 is beyond me.

what FE colleges will offer an ITEC reflexology certificate course?

 

[selamlar]

Any of you actually used homeopathy or reflexology for your ailments?
Last year I did herbal medicine - do you haters want to cuss that one too?

No, for much the same reason as I didn't sacrifice a black cockeral in order to cure my verruca, and 'herbal medicine' covers a multitude of sins, from homeopathy, which is utter balls, to herbalism, which might be slightly less balls, but is still based on an utterly outmoded model of human anatomy/physiology.

Oh, and 'haters'. <smirk>

A friend of mine is working with pregnancy and reflexology in the Caribbean with some astonishing results for women giving birth, pain in labour. What I saw astonished me (I have four children of my own).

You see, that is the kind of shit that really gets my goat. Someone out there is spending perfectly good money on an (I'll be generous) unproven and insufficiently tested form of psuedo-medical intervention in, presumably, poor countries that have fairly poor public health services. Money that could be otherwise spent on known and effective treatments that would have a far greater benefit.

The arse seems to have fallen out of non-core FE funding full-stop, not just from "alternative" subjects.

Yup.

 

[ViolentPanda]

No, for much the same reason as I didn't sacrifice a black cockeral in order to cure my verruca, and 'herbal medicine' covers a multitude of sins, from homeopathy, which is utter balls, to herbalism, which might be slightly less balls, but is still based on an utterly outmoded model of human anatomy/physiology.

Wellll, I'd have to disagree about herbalism, as licenced practitioners in the UK are actually medically-qualified, and don't tend to subscribe to the "Doctrine of Signatures" or the "balancing of the humours" model of medical practice any more.

Oh, and 'haters'. <smirk>
You see, that is the kind of shit that really gets my goat. Someone out there is spending perfectly good money on an (I'll be generous) unproven and insufficiently tested form of psuedo-medical intervention in, presumably, poor countries that have fairly poor public health services. Money that could be otherwise spent on known and effective treatments that would have a far greater benefit.

It's fair to say that "traditional" remedies (what we would call "alternative medicine") is quite big in parts of the Caribbean because it works, and is cheaper than allopathic medicine. Bear in mind how many different cultures the islands etc are a fusion of, many of which (the east Africans, the Indians and the Chinese for example) included types of massage as pain relief, or herbal preparations as sedatives, stimulants, febrifuges etc because it worked. You don't worry about how many RCTs a remedy has had if you're poor and it works, you just thank buggery that it does so.