A level and BTEC grading system

[MrCurry]

Can anyone help me understand the A level and BTEC grade system, because when I went to school, A levels were A-E and A-C were the good ones.

Now I understand they have shoe horned in a new top grade of A*, fair enough, but what the hell is a D*?

No,1 niece tells me she got a D* in applied science BTEC and it’s the highest anyone in the school has ever got in that subject and I feel like an old duffer for not knowing how that can be a good grade! She also got a bunch of A* A level results, so has definitely done well.

 

[maomao]

Can anyone help me understand the A level and BTEC grade system, because when I went to school, A levels were A-E and A-C were the good ones.

Now I understand they have shoe horned in a new top grade of A*, fair enough, but what the hell is a D*?

No,1 niece tells me she got a D* in applied science BTEC and it’s the highest anyone in the school has ever got in that subject and I feel like an old duffer for not knowing how that can be a good grade! She also got a bunch of A* A level results, so has definitely done well.

Pass, Merit, Distinction, Distinction*

 

[MrCurry]

Pass, Merit, Distinction, Distinction*

Wow, ok - thanks!

 

[Elpenor]

Jumping on this thread, can someone explain what the GCSE grades are?

 

[maomao]

Jumping on this thread, can someone explain what the GCSE grades are?

It's a 1-9 scaled with 9 bring the highest:

 

[Elpenor]

Thanks!

 

[newme]

Thanks!

It stupid they change the system and its gibberish until its translated to proper grades. Three kids with different grading systems, different maths systems, different English systems. Not sure why the numbers are better?

 

[scifisam]

It stupid they change the system and its gibberish until its translated to proper grades. Three kids with different grading systems, different maths systems, different English systems. Not sure why the numbers are better?

Supposedly so you can add them up and get to the required grades for UCAS points easily. Though anyone who can't do that - with the help of a calculator or whatever if necessary, that's fine, it doesn't have to be off the top of your head because it's not like applying for uni is something you do informally - is going to find uni very difficult indeed.

They also sort of change the grade boundaries, to try to create an A**. I guess in a few years there'll be a grade 10 so that those who got a 9 will look like they didn't get the highest grade.

(Grump from someone who got some As at GCSE the year before A* was introduced, and does not appreciate that it looks like I didn't get the highest mark available).

 

[spanglechick]

Gcse re-calibration was designed to disguise grade inflation.

Grade inflation doesn’t mean corruption, btw. Any more than economic inflation does. Look at how much better humans have got at climbing mountains in the last century. The mountains haven’t got shorter - it’s just that we’ve found better ways of preparing.

Same with exams. League tables and performance related pay mean that teachers have worked themselves through the point of burnout to find ways of getting kids better prepared.
This means more passing grades, and more top grades.
A* was created to differentiate the excellent from the spectacular. 1-9 allowed an extra grade to be quietly introduced that’s higher than an A*.

if you want the spread of grades you got 30 years ago, you have to get rid of league tables and PRP, but also, accept that kids with SEND, troubled backgrounds etc will just be allowed to fail/underachieve. Like they used to be.

 

[planetgeli]

Gcse re-calibration was designed to disguise grade inflation.

Grade inflation doesn’t mean corruption, btw. Any more than economic inflation does. Look at how much better humans have got at climbing mountains in the last century. The mountains haven’t got shorter - it’s just that we’ve found better ways of preparing.

Same with exams. League tables and performance related pay mean that teachers have worked themselves through the point of burnout to find ways of getting kids better prepared.
This means more passing grades, and more top grades.
A* was created to differentiate the excellent from the spectacular. 1-9 allowed an extra grade to be quietly introduced that’s higher than an A*.

if you want the spread of grades you got 30 years ago, you have to get rid of league tables and PRP, but also, accept that kids with SEND, troubled backgrounds etc will just be allowed to fail/underachieve. Like they used to be.

Nah, sorry. Grade inflation is way more than being better prepared.

Exams have changed. And what's worse, they haven't even changed consistently across the board. Some are as hard as they ever were (Maths and Chemistry A levels spring to mind) while others have been very dumbed down. And grades have been dumbed down, quite literally. The WJEC GCSE Maths paper now requires you to get 32 marks out of 160 for a C (4). That's a 20% pass mark. When I did O levels, the pass mark was 45%, and that was across the board. And btw, the first question on that paper will be something like 1) Write the number 3631 in words. - Only 31 more marks to get out of 159 then. GCSE English has also become a teach by numbers to pass the subject. Ask SI what he thinks of the numbers of pupils at his tech college who have that English pass but can't write a sentence. And like I said, this in not consistent, it is not fair.

Btw, when I did my A levels the failure rate was about 24%. (1982). 240 in 1000. The failure rate now is 0.4%. 4 in 1000. What an extremely clever country we're building. It's going to be paradise,

Help for SEN pupils is welcome...with their extra 25% time on an exam or whatever. People from disadvantaged backgrounds? Do they really get a lot of help now? I see the ones from the most disadvantaged backgrounds. They've been excluded from school and written off at 11/12/13/14/15. Thrown into a dumping ground of a condemned building. So I don't see quite the same help as you seem to. My disadvantaged pupils are as good as made to fail, often with the most spurious excuses for permanent exclusion from the mainstream.

And it goes beyond that. Because education is about money now, universities are as bad if not worse at grade inflation. So many firsts these days a 2.1 looks pretty crap now. And everyone goes on to do a Masters. Because it's money for the university.

 

[spanglechick]

Nah, sorry. Grade inflation is way more than being better prepared.

Exams have changed. And what's worse, they haven't even changed consistently across the board. Some are as hard as they ever were (Maths and Chemistry A levels spring to mind) while others have been very dumbed down. And grades have been dumbed down, quite literally. The WJEC GCSE Maths paper now requires you to get 32 marks out of 160 for a C (4). That's a 20% pass mark. When I did O levels, the pass mark was 45%, and that was across the board. And btw, the first question on that paper will be something like 1) Write the number 3631 in words. - Only 31 more marks to get out of 159 then. GCSE English has also become a teach by numbers to pass the subject. Ask SI what he thinks of the numbers of pupils at his tech college who have that English pass but can't write a sentence. And like I said, this in not consistent, it is not fair.

Btw, when I did my A levels the failure rate was about 24%. (1982). 240 in 1000. The failure rate now is 0.4%. 4 in 1000. What an extremely clever country we're building. It's going to be paradise,

Help for SEN pupils is welcome...with their extra 25% time on an exam or whatever. People from disadvantaged backgrounds? Do they really get a lot of help now? I see the ones from the most disadvantaged backgrounds. They've been excluded from school and written off at 11/12/13/14/15. Thrown into a dumping ground of a condemned building. So I don't see quite the same help as you seem to. My disadvantaged pupils are as good as made to fail, often with the most spurious excuses for permanent exclusion from the mainstream.

And it goes beyond that. Because education is about money now, universities are as bad if not worse at grade inflation. So many firsts these days a 2.1 looks pretty crap now. And everyone goes on to do a Masters. Because it's money for the university.

You know best.

 

[scifisam]

Nah, sorry. Grade inflation is way more than being better prepared.

Exams have changed. And what's worse, they haven't even changed consistently across the board. Some are as hard as they ever were (Maths and Chemistry A levels spring to mind) while others have been very dumbed down. And grades have been dumbed down, quite literally. The WJEC GCSE Maths paper now requires you to get 32 marks out of 160 for a C (4). That's a 20% pass mark. When I did O levels, the pass mark was 45%, and that was across the board. And btw, the first question on that paper will be something like 1) Write the number 3631 in words. - Only 31 more marks to get out of 159 then. GCSE English has also become a teach by numbers to pass the subject. Ask SI what he thinks of the numbers of pupils at his tech college who have that English pass but can't write a sentence. And like I said, this in not consistent, it is not fair.

Btw, when I did my A levels the failure rate was about 24%. (1982). 240 in 1000. The failure rate now is 0.4%. 4 in 1000. What an extremely clever country we're building. It's going to be paradise,

Help for SEN pupils is welcome...with their extra 25% time on an exam or whatever. People from disadvantaged backgrounds? Do they really get a lot of help now? I see the ones from the most disadvantaged backgrounds. They've been excluded from school and written off at 11/12/13/14/15. Thrown into a dumping ground of a condemned building. So I don't see quite the same help as you seem to. My disadvantaged pupils are as good as made to fail, often with the most spurious excuses for permanent exclusion from the mainstream.

And it goes beyond that. Because education is about money now, universities are as bad if not worse at grade inflation. So many firsts these days a 2.1 looks pretty crap now. And everyone goes on to do a Masters. Because it's money for the university.

The failure rate is counted differently. A D at O level used to be a fail - which was why this whole thread was started - but could still sometimes count for jobs and A levels because it was so close to a pass. Then the official borderline for "fail" was moved, so that anything with a letter that wasn't a U was a pass. But it made no difference at all to job and uni admissions. Most kids of my daughter's age (23) do see anything below a C as a fail no matter that it says "pass" on their certificate, because they know what was needed for college and jobs. (With a D being an honourable loss in a subject you found hard but probably shouldn't go on to A level in).

FWIW, it's great to advocate for disadvantaged pupils but you know it's not just you who's working with them - or has been them - right?

 

[planetgeli]

You know best.

That's a shit, sneery answer. I'd expect better from you. I can't even see why you'd be like that, just because someone provided an answer you may have a different experience to.

 

[planetgeli]

FWIW, it's great to advocate for disadvantaged pupils but you know it's not just you who's working with them - or has been them - right?

FWIW - yes. I provided an answer with things I know about. Included in that was a question to others asking what help they saw disadvantaged pupils getting. So again, why the sneer?

 

[platinumsage]

Don't the exam boards literally compete with each other on easyness? They certainly did in my day, as our school's head of exams who happened to be our maths teacher explained to us in class.

If a school is free to choose between exam boards for each subject and they had the slightest inkling that one board's exam would be easier, they would obviously choose that board. So it stands to reason the exams get easier every year.

 

[planetgeli]

Don't the exam boards literally compete with each other on easyness? They certainly did in my day, as our school's head of exams who happened to be our maths teacher explained to us in class.

If a school is free to choose between exam boards for each subject and they had the slightest inkling that one board's exam would be easier, they would obviously choose that board. So it stands to reason the exams get easier every year.

It's not quite as simple as that. Unless state schools are just picking the harder boards and disadvantaged pupils just aren't making use of all this help they are getting. (Yeah, I remember those laptops Williamson promised at the start of Covid. The ones that never materialised.)

Wales' GCSE gap widens for children from poorer backgrounds

While those getting A*-C grades is up, it is lower for pupils from poorer backgrounds.

www.bbc.co.uk

Private schools in England give pupils top grades in 70% of A-level entries

Teacher-assessed grades in lieu of exams benefit those at independent schools as gap with state education widens

www.theguardian.com

 

[platinumsage]

It's not quite as simple as that. Unless state schools are just picking the harder boards and disadvantaged pupils just aren't making use of all this help they are getting. (Yeah, I remember those laptops Williamson promised at the start of Covid. The ones that never materialised.)

Wales' GCSE gap widens for children from poorer backgrounds

While those getting A*-C grades is up, it is lower for pupils from poorer backgrounds.

www.bbc.co.uk

Private schools in England give pupils top grades in 70% of A-level entries

Teacher-assessed grades in lieu of exams benefit those at independent schools as gap with state education widens

www.theguardian.com

Ok so they didn't have exams this year.

Anyway I wasn't suggesting that the relative difficulty of exams between exams boards was a reason for disparities within a year's cohort. All I'm saying is that over the years competition between boards will inevitably lead to grade inflation.

 

[planetgeli]

Ok so they didn't have exams this year.

Anyway I wasn't suggesting that the relative difficulty of exams between exams boards was a reason for disparities within a year's cohort. All I'm saying is that over the years competition between boards will inevitably lead to grade inflation.

There have always been different exam boards (whose syllabus still gets followed even when there are no exams btw) and grade inflation wasn't a thing until after 1982 when they changed the way marks were given.

The astronomical rises of recent years are not down to what you describe. (And if they were then that too would be a reason for outrage and questioning). It's to do with the need for questionable statistics, league tables, and many other things. And in amongst that deprived kids, especially the most deprived, are getting left behind.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

I fucked up my A-levels over 20 years ago. They sound like a reggie stepper song. Only without the C. (2 u's and an N)
I had an idea in a previous job, I would call my school pretending to a prospective employer asking about the validity of the A-level results on my own CV.
They couldnt verify anything.

Cashback. Now I got 3 A*s.

 

[platinumsage]

There have always been different exam boards (whose syllabus still gets followed even when there are no exams btw) and grade inflation wasn't a thing until after 1982 when they changed the way marks were given.

The astronomical rises of recent years are not down to what you describe. (And if they were then that too would be a reason for outrage and questioning). It's to do with the need for questionable statistics, league tables, and many other things. And in amongst that deprived kids, especially the most deprived, are getting left behind.

Schools didn't used to have a choice between boards until it was deregulated, and since the start of league tables in 1992 there's been relentless grade inflation.

 

[scifisam]

I fucked up my A-levels over 20 years ago. They sound like a reggie stepper song. Only without the C. (2 u's and an N)
I had an idea in a previous job, I would call my school pretending to a prospective employer asking about the validity of the A-level results on my own CV.
They couldnt verify anything.

Cashback. Now I got 3 A*s.

A bright employer might notice that A* grades didn't exist twenty years ago...

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

how come all the xylophone playing spods that went to oxford got them? Or am I making that up.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

it was more to point out that noone ever checks. And even if they did, they cant prove anything. Plus I know how much of a lucky sod I am and how different educational models dont translate across borders.

 

[scifisam]

how come all the xylophone playing spods that went to oxford got them? Or am I making that up.

You must be - A* was around for GCSE results back then, but A star at A levels didn't come in till 2010.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

(Grump from someone who got some As at GCSE the year before A* was introduced, and does not appreciate that it looks like I didn't get the highest mark available).

Still bitter?

I got some As and GSCE and A level but we all know the exams were harder back then, so the young 'uns know nowt these days.

 

[planetgeli]

Schools didn't used to have a choice between boards until it was deregulated, and since the start of league tables in 1992 there's been relentless grade inflation.

I did the best history O level ever (China, Ireland, Israel) in 1980 because our school chose a particular board. My O levels are from 3 different boards, all taken the same year.

 

[WouldBe]

Still bitter?

I got some As and GSCE and A level but we all know the exams were harder back then, so the young 'uns know nowt these days.

Cse's used to be graded by number. Seems education standards have slipped.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Cse's used to be graded by number. Seems education standards have slipped.

CSEs were before my time, but think my older brother sat them.