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A History Of Ancient Britain

ringo

Macaroni cheese controller
Starts Wednesday 9th Feb BBC2, 9pm

Could be great, although it is presented by Neil Oliver who I find a bit annoying and prone to talking about Scotland all the time.

Still, one of the main academics helping out on early humans is Chris Stringer, easily the UK's most gifted palaeo-archaeologist and a very entertaining speaker, so hopefully Oliver will shut his craw long enough to let him speak.
 
What sort of period are they calling ancient? Wasn't there a prog on the beeb looking at ancient civilisations?

If it's stuff about stone circles, etc... I will be happy. ( With preferably not too many post holes and 'ritual' anythings)
 
Might cause an arguement but I'd love to see Simon Schama doing this. I really like his History of Britain series and thought the biggest thing that let it down was very little focus on pre-Roman Britian.
 
Think I caught a bit of that.

Trouble with pre-Roman Britain is it is all a bit vague and reliant on whoever's current interpretation of what has been archeologied.
 
Might cause an argument but I'd love to see Simon Schama doing this. I really like his History of Britain series and thought the biggest thing that let it down was very little focus on pre-Roman Britian.

Schama is a good presenter but he's a historian, so pre-Roman Britain is not his field.

History just covers the written word, and that didn't exist here until the Romans arrived. Archaeology covers physical evidence left by humans including burials, artefacts, buildings and changes to the landscape.

What sort of period are they calling ancient? Wasn't there a prog on the beeb looking at ancient civilisations?

If it's stuff about stone circles, etc... I will be happy. ( With preferably not too many post holes and 'ritual' anythings)

Ancient in this context means from the arrival of humans in Britain up to the Roman Invasion in AD43. The series last year on ancient civilisations was about the first civilisations in the world and their development. This is about Britain specifically. There will be stone circles, henge monuments, causewayed enclosures etc. It'll cover each period of the stone age, the Bronze Age and the Iron Age, then they'll mention that those terms aren't as useful as they once were.

I doubt they'll show too many postholes 'cos they don't make good TV to non-archaeologists, but there will be plenty of interpretation, which will include the word "ritual".

It's a shame that most people don't get the "ritual" stuff, it's the best bit. In fact TV archaeology's greatest failing is that after 15 odd years of Time Team etc the 150 years of archaeological study which has led to current interpretational thinking has in absolutely no way filtered through to the public with any credibility whatsoever.

In essence it's not so hard to get across. We will never know all of the answers, that's part of the exciting bit. There are loads of attempts to put this across, the most famous being "the past is another country".

With every excavation and landscape study new information is found and many long held pieces of knowledge are reaffirmed and proved. The purpose of archaeology is to interpret those findings to explain humans' role and behaviour in the past. This can only be done through theorisation, then looking at the evidence to see if that theory can be proved, looks possible, or looks likely.

Then other evidence found is used to prove or disprove that theory. With each idea proved or disproved we grow closer to understanding what was happening in the past. Of course sometimes we get it wrong and don't realise for many years, the idea of Neanderthals being a hopeless evolutionary disaster being a well known example.

Archaeological theory has developed along similar paths as philosophy and social theory. There have been periods of Marxist interpretation, then processual theory. When I studied it in the 90's it was all about post-processual archaeology and then when I worked in the field we stopped studying settlements in the same way and started analysing their place and meaning in the wider landscape. Each new change in thinking brings a new understanding of what happened.

Without this progress archaeology would be pointless, we'd never get beyond treasure hunting, basic dating and building construction analysis. And it wouldn't be half as interesting.
 
Could be great, although it is presented by Neil Oliver who I find a bit annoying and prone to talking about Scotland all the time.

he is a bit annoying, but does seem to know his stuff.

I am looking forward to this programme. I may even not go to the pub, in order to watch it.
 
that was a bit cack. lot's of shots of some long haired twat looking out to sea. and how connected they were with the 'cruel mistress mother nature', and how they saw other animals 'almost as kin' and other made up shit. the camping trip with 'bob the professional caveman' was unintentionally hilarious, as they waded around after fish they couldn't catch then admitted buying a rabbit from a shop. 'professional flint knapper'? twat should have been made redundant two and a half thousand years ago.
 
I was disappointed that he didn't keep up his "ayyyyynchent" pronunciation of "ancient" all the way through the show. It gave some hilarity to a fairly dull programme at the beginning.
 
I quite enjoyed it, but then I'm quite familiar with the subject.

'Professional caveman' John Lord is ace. I did a flint knapping course with his son once - they really know their stuff at that practical level.
 
given it's the period when class society arose in Britain, I'd hope it would. Tho, considering how the beeb would do it, perhaps I dont
When would you say that was, out of interest? Definitely with the arrival of the Romans, possibly before but it's difficult to pin down. I'll think on it
 
As will I....

No later than the arrival of the Beaker people tho, and certainly before the Romans
 
As will I....

No later than the arrival of the Beaker people tho, and certainly before the Romans
I'm struggling to think of anything that could be evidence for class society before the Romans. I've no doubt slaves were taken and kept from time immemorial, but the presence of true classes (rather than ranks in a tribal/clan society) and a state, hmmm, I really don't know. Interesting question tho
 
I quite enjoyed it. There was bound to be a bit of wistful, misty eyed stuff when the entire human remains for such a long period fit in a shoe box, but other than the mammoth hunting nonsense he didn't get all that silly.

It'll get better from now 'cos we know more.

I'm loathe to join in the class discussion 'cos I've seen what happens on Urban, but it is an interesting subject.

If you look at ethnographic examples and older civilisations we know of then it's very hard to think of any human society without some sort of hierarchical structure. Whether you call that a class system is probably more down to your own personal views I suspect, but there was almost certainly something.

I imagine they'll draw on one of the more known about and studied areas of British prehistory like the Wessex landscape. General thinking has it that any mega-structure requiring massive man-hours of labour is a direct indicator that someone was in charge, utilising slavery or some other hold over the people to make them do the work. In Britain this can be applied to Stone Henge, Avebury, Silbury Hill, some of the immense earthworks linking or dividing sites etc. These are then compared to Egyptian, Central American and other mega-structures we know were built by slaves.

The hunter-gatherers mentioned last night certainly co-operated with each other, otherwise some couldn't have specialised, much in the way John Lord has today with flint knapping. You have to dedicate your life to some of these skills to get good, and increasingly so as technology advances. The microliths used by the Neolithic period could only be made after much practice. Whether there was a leader, or a "big man" running things is debatable. Was that person the head of the family or some other sort of leader? Once groups got bigger than single extended families then almost certainly yes.

We know that population increases and threats to resources cause wars between rival groups. Pretty much just being human is probably enough. From there you get slaves and/or dominated peoples, and then you have a hierarchical structure. Chances are this has been going on in Britain as long as people have been here, or not long after.
 
Storage vessels = having something convenient to drink/eat from or store food/other stuff in.
Indeed, they could be made of skins and used by nomadic bands, while pottery ones probably indicate settlement. They certainly indicate a surplus in the formal sense, but not necessarily a society in which one class appropriates the surplus produced by another
 
or store food/other stuff in.
yes, storing your surplus in. once you've got a jar full of something, you've got a jar full of something that can be taken off you. or you've got a jar full of something that'll keep john lord going while he's knocking out hand axes and playing keyboards for deep purple. class.
 
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