Will you vote for independence?

[john cooper]

I think I've said several times that the English can be asked about English secession. I don't expect to be asked about English secession. Clear enough?

can be but wont be .

 

[john cooper]

Is it worth a poll asking people not in scotland how they'd vote and why?

at last a glimmer of light breaks through .

 

[john cooper]

I've put a poll in UK Pol.

thats a good idea indeed ..uk poll

 

[danny la rouge]

thats a good idea indeed ..uk poll

Asking what?

 

[danny la rouge]

it will happen and about time to . wales and ireland next , a unified independent ireland and an independent wales , great ! then we all know were we stand no more of this union bullshit .

Support for Welsh independence remains weak, with 7% backing it, rising to 12% if Scotland leaves the UK.

BBC.

Most want some kind of increased fiscal autonomy:

Almost two-thirds of voters think the Welsh assembly should have at least some influence over the taxes people pay, according to a poll for BBC Wales.

 

[john cooper]

The poll should be nation , great britain that is , asking do we want to scrap the union and go back to our tribal roots ?

 

[danny la rouge]

The poll should be nation , great britain that is , asking do we want to scrap the union and go back to our tribal roots ?

That's a question inviting the answer "no". A bit like, "would you like to lick this lolly, and then my dick?"

 

[DexterTCN]

What kind of lolly?

 

[john cooper]

That's a question inviting the answer "no". A bit like, "would you like to lick this lolly, and then my dick?"

no i cannot see a comparison , as for inviting the answer no , thats debatable .

 

[john cooper]

What kind of lolly?

don"t encourage him , its like a slap on the back .

 

[JTG]

The poll should be nation , great britain that is , asking do we want to scrap the union and go back to our tribal roots ?

you sound mental tbh

 

[danny la rouge]

no i cannot see a comparison , as for inviting the answer no , thats debatable .

Adding "go back to our tribal roots" is what makes the comparison.

I do want to break up the UK state, but not because I want to "go back to our tribal roots".

 

[john cooper]

you sound mental tbh

sound mental , i cannot see the conection , do you mean ? my writing are something a mentally challenged person would scrawl ?

 

[john cooper]

sound mental , i cannot see the conection , do you mean ? my writing are something a mentally challenged person would scrawl ?

as you know ime a unionist and ime very interested to know , why you would like to see the union ripped apart ?

 

[john cooper]

Adding "go back to our tribal roots" is what makes the comparison.

I do want to break up the UK state, but not because I want to "go back to our tribal roots".

please refer to 194

 

[danny la rouge]

please refer to 194

First, I don't support states. As a democrat, I think parliamentary "democracy" is a travesty, and rather than representing the will of the people, is an institution designed to implement the will of the owning class under the guise of "consensus" and "choice". There is a mythology that goes with this con, by which we are invited to believe that the things done to us are things we freely chose to happen.

However, although parliamentary "democracy" represents the interests of the wealthy elite, working class struggle has historically wrought concessions from the ruling classes, who feared that the entire edifice might tumble unless compromise was reached. These moments of compromise have been reached over some demands of the chartists, the Welfare State, the NHS, and so on.

It is my belief that fracturing the structures of the ruling classes strengthens the hand of the working classes.

I do not for one moment think that the Scottish political establishment is any more pro-working class than the UK political establishment as a whole. I do not identify with them as "a Scot" over my solidarity with the working class of the world; I do not, in short, believe that there is a unity of interests that all Scots share, no matter their class. I do, however, wish to see smaller state apparatus, with leavers of power closer to the people.

In the long term, I would like to see direct democracy, and a world federation of workers' councils. In the short term, I think there is a tactical advantage in fracturing the federation of bosses.

 

[john cooper]

First, I don't support states. As a democrat, I think parliamentary "democracy" is a travesty, and rather than representing the will of the people, is an institution designed to implement the will of the owning class under the guise of "consensus" and "choice". There is a mythology that goes with this con, by which we are invited to believe that the things done to us are things we freely chose to happen.

However, although parliamentary "democracy" represents the interests of the wealthy elite, working class struggle has historically wrought concessions from the ruling classes, who feared that the entire edifice might tumble unless compromise was reached. These moments of compromise have been reached over some demands of the chartists, the Welfare State, the NHS, and so on.

It is my belief that fracturing the structures of the ruling classes strengthens the hand of the working classes.

I do not for one moment think that the Scottish political establishment is any more pro-working class than the UK political establishment as a whole. I do not identify with them as "a Scot" over my solidarity with the working class of the world; I do not, in short, believe that there is a unity of interests that all Scots share, no matter their class. I do, however, wish to see smaller state apparatus, with leavers of power closer to the people.very good i totally agree with this view point .

In the long term, I would like to see direct democracy, and a world federation of workers' councils. In the short term, I think there is a tactical advantage in fracturing the federation of bosses.

 

[DotCommunist]

We could still do with annual parliaments mind

 

[Quartz]

Right now I'm thinking that Salmond's anti-English rhetoric and actions bode ill for democracy in an independent future. Once Scotland's separated, he'll turn his ire elsewhere. It makes me think that Salmond wants to become a dictator.

 

[DotCommunist]

ScottishNaziParty

(copyright of sasseferatto)

 

[butchersapron]

Right now I'm thinking that Salmond's anti-English rhetoric and actions bode ill for democracy in an independent future. Once Scotland's separated, he'll turn his ire elsewhere. It makes me think that Salmond wants to become a dictator.

Don't be so bloody daft. He doesn't even want indepedence - how the hell do you think he'll just become a dictator? What anti-english rhetoric anyway? All he offers is pretty bland civic nationalism not bloodcurdling racism.

 

[danny la rouge]

Don't be so bloody daft. He doesn't even want indepedence - how the hell do you think he'll just become a dictator? What anti-english rhetoric anyway? All he offers is pretty bland civic nationalism not bloodcurdling racism.

Indeed.

 

[Quartz]

Don't be so bloody daft. He doesn't even want indepedence - how the hell do you think he'll just become a dictator? What anti-english rhetoric anyway? All he offers is pretty bland civic nationalism not bloodcurdling racism.

Tell that to the students from England who now have to pay £9000 per year, unlike students from Scotland or any EU country.

 

[butchersapron]

You mean the situation that applies to everyone not scottish (and that the unis decide what level to set)? That you could - in your terms - describe as anti-welsh? This is your example of anti-english rhetoric that leads you to conclude that Salmon is likely to lead an attempt at establishing a dictatorship?

 

[Quartz]

You mean the situation that applies to everyone not scottish

Nope. It only applies to students domiciled in the U.K. other than Scotland. Students from France or Poland or Greece or ... don't have to pay.

 

[butchersapron]

Nope. It only applies to students domiciled in the U.Kother than Scotland. Students from France or Poland or Greece or ... don't have to pay.

Yes, it applies to everyone from the UK not scottish. It's clearly specifically anti-welsh then isn't it?

 

[danny la rouge]

Tell that to the students from England who now have to pay £9000 per year, unlike students from Scotland or any EU country.

The policy doesn't discriminate on grounds of nationality, though. It discriminates on grounds of residency. If you are English or Welsh but live in Scotland, you don't have to pay tuition fees.

The reason that tuition fees are charged to English and Welsh students is that Westminster, having powers over education in England and Wales but not in Scotland, introduced tuition fees. Holyrood did not. Thus Scottish domiciled students who study in English universities pay tuition fees.

 

[Quartz]

The policy doesn't discriminate on grounds of nationality, though. It discriminates on grounds of residency. If you are English or Welsh but live in Scotland, you don't have to pay tuition fees.

The reason that tuition fees are charged to English and Welsh students is that Westminster, having powers over education in England and Wales but not in Scotland, introduced tuition fees. Holyrood did not. Thus Scottish domiciled students who study in English universities pay tuition fees.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? In England, all EU students attending universities in England pay tuition fees; in Scotland the only EU students who pay tuition fees are those domiciled in the rest of the UK.

 

[danny la rouge]

Are you being deliberately obtuse? In England, all EU students attending universities in England pay tuition fees; in Scotland the only EU students who pay tuition fees are those domiciled in the rest of the UK.

Are you being obtuse? All EU students pay tuition fees in England because Westminster has degreed tuition fees be paid.

 

[Quartz]

And Edinburgh has decreed that UK students domiciled in the UK other than Scotland pay fees, but students from Scotland and other EU countries don't. That's discrimination.