Why Conspiracy Theorists are so prevalent.

[laptop]

And yours is what?

The laws of physics do not preclude a passport being found.

So if one was found, it proves nothing except that what happens in explosions is not subject to appeals to "common sense" - but requires analysis.

And that the people claiming it shows anything else are merely revealing their wish to remain stupid, rather than inform themselves.

 

[butchersapron]

And yours is what? Some guy told a journalist in a pub that they found a passport in the Trade Centre. There is probably a remote possibility this could be true thus only David Icke would challenge it?



A good journalist should corroborate their story and not publish gossip. If they do not, there is a perfectly legitimate question as to whether they are participating in a deliberate misinformation campaign or if they are just incompetent (admittedly, I generally assume incompetence).

From the Staff Statements to National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States.

109 The passport was recovered by NYPD Detective Yuk H. Chin from a male passerby in a business suit, about 30 years old. The passerby left before being identified, while debris was falling from WTC 2. The tower collapsed shortly thereafter. The detective then gave the passport to the FBI on 9/11. See FBI report, interview of Detective Chin, Sept. 12, 2001

 

[free spirit]

My personal take on it would be that they actually gained the passport info from the passenger manifests and records at the airport, but this got wrongly reported as if they'd found the passport.

not that it's impossible for them to have found a passport, just highly unlikely especially in the timeframe I remember it being reported in.

eta posted before butchersapron's post... if that's the case, then no wonder people think that looks particularly dodgy.

 

[Poo Flakes]

From the Staff Statements to National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States.

Apologies, I thought the Casually Red was just using it as an example of using unnamed sources. It is a pretty good example, there was a few of these types of stories after the Boston Marathon.

Bloody hell, though, I am a bit surprised it survived in such good condition and someone actually found it. IT@S A CONSPIRACY!

 

[Poo Flakes]

My personal take on it would be that they actually gained the passport info from the passenger manifests and records at the airport, but this got wrongly reported as if they'd found the passport.

not that it's impossible for them to have found a passport, just highly unlikely especially in the timeframe I remember it being reported in.

eta posted before butchersapron's post... if that's the case, then no wonder people think that looks particularly dodgy.

Pretty difficult to find any reputable 9/11 stuff, too much conspiracy websites. The Commission is your best bet.

 

[butchersapron]

This is an excellent new pamphlet:

How to Overthrow the Illuminati

Everyone talks about the Illuminati. You may have heard Jay Z and Beyonce are members of the Illuminati, and channel demons when they perform. You may have heard Obama is a member of the Illuminati, and plans to implant microchips in all U.S. citizens, to prepare for martial law. You may have heard the dollar bill contains secret symbols, which reveal the U.S. has been controlled by the Illuminati for hundreds of years.

Illuminati theory helps oppressed people to explain our experiences in the hood. Society throws horrible stuff in our faces: our family members get locked up for bullshit. Our friends kill each other over beefs, money or turf. Our future is full of dead-end jobs that don’t pay shit. We struggle to pay bills while others live in luxury. On TV, we see people all over the world dying in poverty, even though we live in the most materially abundant society in history. Most people act like none of these terrible things are happening. Why does this occur? We start looking for answers, and Illuminati theory provides one.

We believe Illuminati theory is wrong, and we wrote this pamphlet to offer a different answer. We wrote this pamphlet because we know people who think about the Illuminati usually want to stop oppression and exploitation. They’re some of the smartest people in the hood today. Forty years ago, Illuminati theorists would’ve been in the Black Panther Party. Today most of them sit around and talk endlessly about conspiracies. This is a waste of talent. The world is in a deep crisis, and big protests, rebellions and revolutions are happening. In Egypt, South Africa, Turkey–and even in the U.S.–these movements are already taking 

place. 

People who 

say 

we can’t 

do 

anything because no 

one 

else 

is 

fighting are simply refusing to join the fight themselves. With the right tools, we can participate in these actions, and make history with millions of others.

This pamphlet is a tool to help you understand the world around you. It offers a brief history of Illuminati theory: who invented it, when and where. It shows how Illuminati theory became popular in the hood after the defeat of the movements of the 1970s. It reveals that Illuminati theory is unable to explain how society works, or provide solutions for how to end oppression and exploitation. It offers an alternative explanation of why exploitation and oppression exists, and what we can do to change it. First, we have to unearth the origin of Illuminati theory itself.

 

[8ball]

That pamphlet is going straight from my printer to a conspiracy theorist I know.

The link doesn't work for me but I found another copy here in case anyone else is having similar trouble.

 

[butchersapron]

My fault on the link. Sos.

 

[8ball]

I think i would have preferred the pamphlet if it hadn't offered its own answer. Just knocking the stuffing out of the conspiracy theories is enough for one pamphlet, I think.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I think i would have preferred the pamphlet if it hadn't offered its own answer. Just knocking the stuffing out of the conspiracy theories is enough for one pamphlet, I think.

I think it's clear the authors are coming from a particular perspective so it makes sense to go the whole hog.

 

[butchersapron]

I think i would have preferred the pamphlet if it hadn't offered its own answer. Just knocking the stuffing out of the conspiracy theories is enough for one pamphlet, I think.

It wasn't there to just say this is bad. It was an intervention. It needed an answer to 'well what you got?' I think it did that really well and there's no reason why the prior bit can't or shouldn't be used aside from whatever answers you may favour.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

It wasn't there to just say this is bad. It was an intervention. It needed an answer to 'well what you got?' I think it did that really well and there's no reason why the prior bit can't or shouldn't be used aside from whatever answers you may favour.

Also this!

 

[CNT36]

Just been learned of a gentlemen named Chris Spivey thanks to the interview he just gave at Rebellion Festival. Plenty of conspiracy theories and a dash of anti-Semitism. It was kind of subtle in the interview but this is pretty blatant http://www.chrisspivey.co.uk/?p=12990
David Icke's website features him dismissing Woolwich as a hoax. John Robb sat there listening without saying a word challenging it. I missed the beginning but its possible he was there to promote his book about a spoof punk bad as Robb seemed uncomfortable and may not of been aware of this conspiracy shit.

 

[andysays]

Message to Spivey

 

[norwood]

When people dont have any trust in government the conspiracy can thrive.When a president of Usa and PM of GB can get up and totally lie to billions of people the obvious thing to think is what cant they lie about.No lie is to big.

 

[elbows]

Regarding Spivey, this blog post by someone else is a vaguely useful look at how someone can get drawn into such stuff, find it deeply compelling and have their worldview mangled as a result.

http://aboutmatttaylor.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/who-fuck-is-chris-spivey.html

As the article goes on it also demonstrates something else thats become increasingly obvious with the UK as opposed to US flavours of conspiracy fringe politics - a strong emphasis on dragging a range of sex crimes into the mix of accusations about the elites. You get this stuff in the US too but not to anything like this extent, and more easily discredited by its blatantly homophobic nature over there (recall the Bush in a tutu stuff on u75). This stuff has been around on the net long before Savile blew this area up, but it got new energy and a new audience and it remains to be seen how much such angles maintain momentum over time. Not surprising, since it was an area where real coverups have taken place and public confidence has understandably been shaken. And an area where many people, including a fair number on u75, may have lacked more reasonable sources which could put the scale of such stuff into perspective. Also an area where few or none of the traditional political forces, including fringe leftist ones, had trodden in depth in the past.

 

[frogwoman]

glad to have found this page as its a sign spiveys waking people up.this is only part of the journey though now listen too eustace mullins for the whole story and the conspiritors end game hopes.PEACE

ugh

 

[frogwoman]

Regarding Spivey, this blog post by someone else is a vaguely useful look at how someone can get drawn into such stuff, find it deeply compelling and have their worldview mangled as a result.

http://aboutmatttaylor.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/who-fuck-is-chris-spivey.html

As the article goes on it also demonstrates something else thats become increasingly obvious with the UK as opposed to US flavours of conspiracy fringe politics - a strong emphasis on dragging a range of sex crimes into the mix of accusations about the elites. You get this stuff in the US too but not to anything like this extent, and more easily discredited by its blatantly homophobic nature over there (recall the Bush in a tutu stuff on u75). This stuff has been around on the net long before Savile blew this area up, but it got new energy and a new audience and it remains to be seen how much such angles maintain momentum over time. Not surprising, since it was an area where real coverups have taken place and public confidence has understandably been shaken. And an area where many people, including a fair number on u75, may have lacked more reasonable sources which could put the scale of such stuff into perspective. Also an area where few or none of the traditional political forces, including fringe ones, had trodden in depth in the past.

that's an excellent post tho elbows (yours i mean)

 

[8den]

i can distinctly remember in the immediate aftermath of 9 11 watching the mainstream media report claims by senior US officials that a passport belonging to one of the alleged hijackers had been recovered by investigators from the still smouldering rubble .
It was a scientific impossibility to the nth degree, yet the MSM relayed the absurd government claims without so much as a raised eyebrow .

Not only was a passport found, but personal effects from several passengers were recovered at ground zero. Including bank cards etc.... In addition seat cushions from the plane were recovered in Manhattan along with letters carried in the plane's hold.

In fact after the last shuttle disaster, not only was the remains of a science experiment involving worms recovered, but the worms were alive and well.

It's only absurd because you think it's absurd.

 

[8den]

Pretty difficult to find any reputable 9/11 stuff, too much conspiracy websites. The Commission is your best bet.

911myths.com or https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/ will give you evidence to debunk just about any piece of 911 conspiracy crap.

 

[elbows]

that's an excellent post tho elbows (yours i mean)

Cheers. I'd have said more about the topic before now if most of the sites I could use as examples weren't so darn libellous. Instead I was mostly restricted to speaking in riddles on the relevant threads.

Hmm that reminds me of the other aspect of this angle thats vaguely interesting - not all of those sites were totally worthless. Aside from the very small handful of journalists who'd researched and drawn attention to this stuff in decades gone by, and mainstream reporting of new investigations in the wake of Savile, such blogs were one of the few tools available to me to do my own research. Granted this mostly just consisted of them finding historical tabloid articles and doing a range of dot joining of very variable quality, but it was still something I could use. But all the usual shit was there along the way: anti-semitism, homophobia, misunderstandings or naivety about power, elites, control, scale, lack of analysis of institutions, and what stuff is central to state & capital control games rather than being side-effects, blind-spots or individual abuses.

And of course what this topic has in common with other popular conspiracy theories is that potent mix of highly emotive issue combined with an easily exploitable void that comes from potential state coverup, mainstream unease, disinterest or legal issues, and the shadowy work of the intelligence services.

Combined with other aspects of political disenfranchisement, cynicism etc, there is a lot of potential that some might think would have various elite groups quaking in their boots when considering the medium-long term future. But perhaps there is something inherently self-limiting in the present form that support for such worldviews take - The political disconnect that enables such stuff to thrive is also a factor that limits the will to act upon such stuff in a political way to a minority. Should conditions (e.g. economic) reach a point where a substantial proportion of the population find it necessary to act, we might expect that all this stuff will be trumped by the most pressing issues, e.g. feeding your family. All this stuff could still be used for propaganda purposes by a dodgy political force that manages to capitalise on the moment, but even then it is quite possible for this form of propaganda to backfire. For example it is easy for me to give excessive attention to the youngsters I meet at work who buy into stuff such as the Zeitgeist video. But the strength of their resulting worldview has not really been tested, and when I go out of my way to talk to the youngsters who are not obvious fans of such videos, I tend to find them treating it's central themes with as much derision as any of the hardened u75 regulars do, albeit without necessarily knowing how to counter its themes in a politically cohesive manner. Perhaps thats because we are lucky, that there are a range of blatantly unpalatable ideas that many find naturally repulsive without necessarily understanding exactly why, or what the logical political alternative is.

 

[butchersapron]

Another charmer this spivey character - well done Jon Robb, well done! Check out the paper he claims he wrote for as well, that he uses to establish his journo credentials - it's a bloody comic.

Personally, I have never gotten around to looking into the Holocaust too deeply and as such, I just went along with the official narrative.

Obviously, I knew that there were Holocaust deniers.

However, In my ignorance I just wrote them off as those seeking controversy.

After all, I have seen the photo’s, so I know that the Holocaust took place. Therefore, anyone who deny’s that it happened must be wrong.

How very fucking closed minded of me. I, more than most should know that you should always keep an open mind on everything.

I mean, anything can be manipulated including the truth… However big the lie may be.

Never the less, Holocaust deniers are not saying that the Holocaust never took place… It did.

They just dispute the official narrative, the figures and the existence of the gas chambers.

“Yeah, yeah. Woop tee do. Where are you going with this Spiv”?

Well, as it happens I got sent some information on this subject the other week. And, having now read it, I have to say that I agree. The figures and official narrative most certainly do not add up.

Moreover, it would seem that the reason for perpetuating the myth of Six Million fits very neatly in with the elites agenda… No surprise there then.

However, because disputing the Holocaust is a sensitive subject, not to mention against the law in some countries, the author of this eye opener – sent exclusively to me – wishes to remain anonymous.

I can however tell you that the author is very well respected.

Plenty more where that came from.

edit: and please, do read through the article he publishes and recommends. It leaves no doubt whatsoever where Spivey is coming from and what he is saying.

edit: didn't see that CNT36 posted the link earlier - sorry.

 

[frogwoman]

this is horrible

 

[butchersapron]

Therefore, fuck what Dobby Big-Ears of England says. It is pure bullshit.

He has fulfilled his role by making sure that the future King of England will be Jewish… Fuck knows how they intend to get over that little conflict of interest.

Never the less, if you are not already Anti-Semitic, you fucking ought to be… And be quick about it.

 

[laptop]

Not only was a passport found, but personal effects from several passengers were recovered at ground zero. Including bank cards etc.... In addition seat cushions from the plane were recovered in Manhattan along with letters carried in the plane's hold.

In fact after the last shuttle disaster, not only was the remains of a science experiment involving worms recovered, but the worms were alive and well.

It's only absurd because you think it's absurd.

Once more, we have to respond to the "I can't imagine how that happened" argument - beloved of 9/11 nuts, creationists and more.

The answer is always "so imagine harder".

 

[frogwoman]

for fucks sake.

so sick of these cunts.

 

[ska invita]

Dont know if its been mentioned but someone was telling me that on Sky or cable there is a new Conspiracy TV station - I cant remember what it was called. Anyone know anything about it?

 

[frogwoman]

Dont know if its been mentioned but someone was telling me that on Sky or cable there is a new Conspiracy TV station - I cant remember what it was called. Anyone know anything about it?

jewtube

 

[bamalama]

this is the cunt who gave a talk at rebellion isn't it ?

 

[butchersapron]

This Spivey feller? Yep.