UK courtroom to hear evidence against the official narrative of 9/11

[Blagsta]

If all the posters on this thread can do a thousandth of the work against racism that Cynthia McKinney has achieved, that will be notable.

Does anyone still believe Jazzz is innocent in all this?

 

[goldenecitrone]

Does anyone still believe Jazzz is innocent in all this?

Do you think Jazzz brought the towers down? That would be a turn up for the books.

 

[existentialist]

Does anyone still believe Jazzz is innocent in all this?

I think he could be.

I think Jazzz is a little bit starstruck: in his universe, people like McKinney, and even the rather silly character in the court case in Horsham, represent a kind of stardom to him.

So when unbelievers like us start criticising the sacred conspiraloon cows, it almost doesn't matter whether the criticisms are valid or not - THEY MUST BE DEFENDED.

 

[frogwoman]

it's pretty clear when someone is anti-zionist and not racist and that couldn't be clearer with McKinney. Won't stop the zionist lobby crying 'anti-semite'.

because anti-semitism is ok and "racism" isn't? if racism is worse, then did you see those pictures of her mate standing by "white pride" posters?

what makes her anti-zionist and "not racist" or is it when jews are the target it's all right by you? even if you dont give a shit about jews did you see all the other racist filth they're spouting from the links that sihhi gave and all the rape apologist shit about assange and DSK? this is a fucking sewer jazzz and some of the people promoting this are really quite powerful, an elite you might say!

The zionist lobby crying anti-semite? what's that then? get to fuck jazzz, i gave you the benefit of the doubt for years on here but this, this can fuck off. what are those pictures then of her cosying up to the rich fash with their posh dinners in that restaurant, lot of money in the promotion of anti-semitism these days innit? there always was i suppose, despite all their fucking crying and wailing about how they're being repressed and about how they're not allowed to tell the truth - they seem to have done pretty well out of it!

this is fucking sickening, you're not even ashamed of it!

 

[butchersapron]

This is what he's saying with

Won't stop the zionist lobby crying 'anti-semite'.

those of you criticising me are having your strings pulled by jews.

 

[frogwoman]

This is what he's saying with



those of you criticising me are having your strings pulled by jews.

i gave him the benefit of the doubt for years. jazzz aren't you jewish? what do the other jewish people you know make of this shit?

speaking for myself, i'd be fucking sickened if somebody i knew started going on about zionist bankers and all that shit.

 

[frogwoman]

Not sure where your logic comes from. Person A makes statement Z. I say group B makes statement Z. That doesn't mean that I am saying person A is a member of group B. But of course you assume that I would also make guilt by association arguments.

What exactly are you trying to say then?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I get upset about this because these are people I know, they aren't bankers or goblin-like characters sitting in caves and counting their money, these are people i know, done stuff with, worshipped with etc. the idea of the "number of rich jews" being criticised by people who are making a living out of preaching hate and selling gullible idiots their colloidal gold/silver/platinum/earthing/electricity scams is actually fucking sickening, as is jewish conspiracies being blamed by people who themselves held state power and have blood on their hands like that twat mathir mohammed.

you don't seem to get this at all.

What's sad as fuck is the amount of magical thinking that has to go on in order to present "The Jews" as an entity as an existential threat to anyone. The degree of conflation (of Jews with Israelis and Israel; of Jews with "international banking interests; of Jews with "secret societies" bent on dominating this world) necessary to do so defies logic!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Holocaust denial should be a crime, in my opinion. How can such a horrific experience of so many be denied?

I don't agree that denying it should be a crime. I do believe that people who promote the kind of ahistorical unscientific dreck that is the backbone of holocaust denial should be relentless pilloried from every and any platform available. The Lipstatt case against Irving proved that national publicity did more to destroy his credibility than years of academic opprobrium.

 

[butchersapron]

Jazzz (assuming it's the same one 'Dr Jazzz') being mates with Cynthia McKinney and Annie Machon:

I guess this would be the paris meeting at which jazzz pretended that he has met Cynthia Mckinney and that she had told him her true feelings on 911...and got rather caught out. See this thread.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Give me one McKinney over 10,000 armchair internet activists....

Probably because she'd suck up your gut-wrenching bullshit like it was lobster bisque, whereas those tiresome "armchair internet activists" won't.

BTW, many of the people you're insiuating are "armchair internet activists" have done plenty of "real-life" activism, and generally out of the view of the international media, as they aren't "doing" activism as a way to promote and prolong a career.

 

[ViolentPanda]

why is she standing there with her arm round that cunt jazzz?

You missed a comma between "cunt" and "jazzz".

Or did you?

 

[Delroy Booth]

See this thread.

You deserve a medal for that. Then you deserve to have it taken off you as medals are the trinkets of bourgeois imperialist militarism, and have no place in a thoroughly proletarian movement.

Jazzz is such a worm, you can almost smell the hero-worship he has of these pitiful chancers and con-artists that float around with all the other turds in the troof toilet. Didn't know Taffboy was a conspiraloon either. This stuff's rampant amongst the under-23's, luckily it's usually not hard to debunk the stuff (a quick look through Jazzz's posting history is probably a good place to start) but it's a shame that otherwise well-intention, if a little naive, people get suckered into this line of thinking. It has the potential to do damage, although I'm pretty confident it can be broken down with a bit of hard work and logic.

I never thought I'd see the day that the Wigan, Makerfield and Atherton People's Alliance get to share a thread with Cynthia McKinnon's failed politician-looking-for-a-job-to-satiate-their-vanity circus. Mind you, Pete Franzen's pretty paranoid, even if he is a decent guy at heart. Truly these are the end of days.

 

[sihhi]

why is she standing there with her arm round that cunt jazzz?

Because she is addressing a crowd of Islamist conspiracists (that country's version of the truth movement figures) in Ankara alongside Shamir.

some of the people promoting this are really quite powerful, an elite you might say!

It is the supposed other side of US power pole - hence both Israel Shamir and McKinney's support on a cross-class basis for Gaddafist Libya, Iran, Belarus and Russia.

Note, before the following brief look through her facebook, that this doesn't make her particularly worse than the 99% of US politicians who support US power - from the Ron Pauls to the Chuck Hagels to the Nancy Pelosis - but she is not a principled, meaningful anti-racist. Her visit to Gaddafi or her part in the Gaza Convoy is based around sustaining those forces which she sees as allies for black America.

There's a link on her facebook about her interview with Gilad Atzmon. Here Cynthia McKinney performs on Atzmon what Jazzz does on McKinney (aka dismiss all actual facts - known as "truthseeking")

The interview was a good follow-up to his remarks in Atlanta. I touched him. He's human. He's just a person. And he's a thinker. He has deep philosophical underpinnings for his positions. He is actually engaging in a conversation with himself, but is allowing the world to hear his musings. ... At any rate, in the flesh, Gilad is charming and thought-provoking. He said nothing that was offensive to me and nothing that I heard him say resembles what I read about him.

What she puts up on her facebook basically matches a modern black version of Coughlinism (occasionally turning into a wider movement as in the Huey Long era) in the US South, ultimately not too dissimilar in worldview from fringes of black militant nationalism - Nation of Islam and the NBPP.

What's stunning is her defence of (also an anti-racist) Tony Martin

Cynthia McKinney shared a link. Friday

Look at this: Why was Professor Tony Martin so trashed when all he did was expose a fact? Now, it is readily admitted that Jews owned slaves and thousands fought for the Confederacy, the play "The Whipping Man" is the story of one Jewish slave owner and two newly freed enslaved Africans from his plantation

Martin died recently - worth examining who he was.

He was an anti-racist yes strongly proclaimed - just like Jazzz does, that he was an anti-racist.

He was the history professor in Boston's Wellesley College who, as soon as he gained tenure, stepped up his anti-Jewish assertions within his African history/Africana courses, included a Nation of Islam book (specially commissioned by Farrakhan) The Secret Relationship between Blacks and Jews (basic sample assertion "Jews have been conclusively linked to the greatest criminal endeavor ever undertaken against an entire race of people … the black African Holocaust") as part of his compulsory reading lists, in addition to his own work and other Africanists like Martin Bernal. Some students questioned his use of the Nation of Islam material - full of incorrect assertions and foonotes that say the exact opposite of what is claimed for instance that most Jewish religious figures supported slavery in 1860, in fact most were steady (but not radical) abolitionists the mainstream left-wing of US Northern opinion. This lead him to become suspicious of his (and other) white students - some had released information about his course to a Jewish anti-racist organisation Hillel.
In his anger he ferociously verbally abused a female student Alyson Todd who had questioned his entry into a women's only dormitory (apparently trying to recruit black students there), calling her a "white fucking b****" "racist" "bigot" etc among other things, crowding over her to the point where she fell down and was rescued by the intervention of other staff. Then began spreading rumours about her being an inveterate racist, encouraging his black students to act against her and her friends. Then stepped up publishing and distribution to students and staff his special broadsheet Blacks and Jews at Wellesley News* promoting black separatism in Boston (where Jews, Irish Americans and Protestant white Americans had recently experienced troublesome episodes the Southey bussing of the 1970s, white far right activism over black mugging in the 1980s). The broadsheet explained Jewish media control in Los Angeles studios and newspapers, restated primary Jewish control of the African slave trade, repeated fact-free assertions based around a 1971 Nation Of Islam work Juan Colon alias Cristobal Colon alias Christopher Columbus was a Spanish Jew, that yes Colombus was a Jew and so when he began the initial colonisation of the Tainos in the Carribbean he did this as a Jew; reasserted active Jewish participation in the "extermination of the Native Americans" etc; stated the importance of Jewish control of international trafficking and prostitution of women.

*Blacks and Jews News was the name of the bulletin the Nation of Islam put out for instance in parts of New York where blacks and Jews lived close by (see the Crown Heights riots of 1991).

Then when 121 (nearly all, black and white) academics at the College censured him at a College-wide meeting for threatening students, for referring to fellow professor Mary Lefkowitz, who had rejected on academic grouds his Afrocentric origins of ancient Greek culture ideas, as "a Jew" and devious for this reason in his Blacks and Jews at Wellesley News etc - he began complaining of an all-encompassing Zionist conspiracy, eventually publishing The Jewish Onslaught: Dispatches from the Wellesley Battlefront attacking those blacks failing to support him and his publications as white tools on the pattern of a "Jewish-Responsible Negro alliance" (conspiracism again). In spite of all his behaviour he remained a paid professor - out of court settlement between student and college solving the racist tirade against the student Todd.

He later in 2001 conducted, in a platform alongside Holocaust denier David Irving amongst others, a lecture entitled The Judaic Role in the Black Slave Trade once fictitiously overstating Jewish involvement in financing and conducting slave raiding and deportation from Africa to the Western Hemisphere and linking to essentially fixed Jewish practices, demanding reparations from all Jews for the African Holocaust. Next to him of course was Irving attacking the reparation and restitution from Germany and central Europe for the Holocaust demanding all money should be seized back to Germany and Austria in light of new evidence about the Holocaust. Again he remained a professor - ie there was .

So this figure sustaining the concept of a Jewish slaveocracy importing Africans into British North America (Britain would not have done it so much otherwise) and essentially a Jewish-Confederacy conspiracy is "all he did was expose a fact".

Look further down her facebook and what do you see is Cynthia McKinney's praise for Orientalist pro-Arab French ambassador Stephane Hessel who managed to conclude 'L'antisémitisme est un sentiment naturel pour les Juifs' antisemitism is a natural feeling for Jews.

Then this puzzling point about Galloway refusing to address a debate against an Israeli Jew: "George Galloway making the news again ..." - it shouldn't make the news because it's a sane meaningful course of action or great it's making the news - who knows?

 

[sihhi]

The soft conspiracist world-view is all there in Cynthia McKinney's facebook (approximately one-third skating-line anti-Zionism, one-third support for anti-US poles Venezuela, Iran etc, one-third support for actual social movements in the US). There's no meaningful anti-racist work - it's simply the location of black America's problems as world Jewish power instead of a structural caste or class reality over the centuries. It runs something along these lines: Jewish power having deeply extended the slavery in the first place, and then sustained the Confederacy (demand reparations from Jews when the time is right), then controlled Hollywood and the media to maintain official segregation and racism, and then when the civil rights movement began killed JFK, Malcolm, MLK and Bobby etc, Jewish power now diverts America from its own true interests of investing in its poor black communities sidelining its wealth into military production to help Israel, what role did Mossad play in these attacks – it's an important question. Re-investigate 9-11 Now!

To be clear, I have no doubt she is sincere in seeking peace and racial justice. However, it is precisely her involvement in truthism precisely the adoration of Jazzzes that is dragging her further down this present outlook. An outlook based upon conspiracism and meaningless activism - reinvestigation of 9-11 and support on a cross-class basis for enemies of Zionist influence. She believes Zionists stopped her getting elected.

It encourages her fans who leave comments like this:
"How the hell does one 'debate' when the other side's argument boils down to:
"I'm special, Gawd said so!" & "If you disagree with anything I say, you're a bad person who hates Gawd & supports Hitler!"
in response to the Galloway affair.

It leads to the lunacy of her asserting at a movement event for prisoners Critical Resistance that 5,000 prisoners were shot dead by the US Corrections Department/Department of Defense in 2005 in and their bodies dumped in Louisiana marshland and swamps:



It also leads to a mad strategy of aiming for a politicised Muslim community on the basis that they are Muslims, wholly to overwhelm a Jewish community that is controlling America:



Is there anything about a non-racial class-based popular movement that can overcome chauvinism from any direction? No. Politicise the Muslims to make a third force to stop the Jewish lobbyists controlling Congress. Is this anti-racism?

Bottom line Jazzz only likes her because she says stuff like:

"the "Conspiracy Theory" is what the government put out. Those who are part of the 9.11 Truth community are the ones who have evidence on their side; evidence of acts, conspiratorial acts. So you can follow the theory or you can follow
the evidence, and I chose to follow the evidence."

and because she is in favour of a form of a populist peace movement-rightist 'states' rights' fundamentalist-militia unity against the overlords:

"But there are people now with the passage of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) - there's an NDAA every
year, but this one legalized indefinite detention - now they understand a little bit better, who the real enemies are: they are the enemies of liberty, the enemies of freedom, and I’m really proud that these very same people who I’ve reached out to them, and I’ve done what - for example - Jane Napolitano tells us we're not supposed to do. That is, we're not supposed to talk to people who are or were or are sympathetic to the militia or members of the Klan. These people are characterized as white racists, and somehow I’m supposed to be afraid of them, when I’m a Southerner and I grew up with them, I understand that people can change, through interaction, there can be a change of heart, a change of behavior and a change of mind."

(from Dissenting Opinion Journal of Peace and Protest)

 

[butchersapron]

sihhi has picked up on a really key point in his last few posts in highlighting the movement (as in changing opinions and base-ground beliefs) that these people and their beliefs and form of (non)activism produce, the contexts they demand that politics starts from the sort of warped perspective he outlines, and it demands everyone else also starts from it too.

Now, if you are naive OMG mine eyes have been opened! type like CM (and the hero worship just intensifies this) then it appears to be very easy to lose your bearings - and the same thing will be played out for many many other angry people just coming to political conclusions in a society where alternative (say left-wing for ease for now) viewpoints and organisations don't have much rootedness or even visibility in w/c communities, but where this sort of thing does offer a set of psuedo-answers and a pseudo-community for them to be involved in. That really is a poisonous situation.

(Someone linked a few months back to a doco about the growth of conspiracy theories in inner city black communities in the US recently, can't seem to find it now)

 

[8ball]

Good post - got any solutions?

 

[butchersapron]

In short beyond putting shoulders to the wheels of things like bedroom tax actions, stuff that is effecting people in these sort of communities there really isn't one, the sort of stuff that is attracting people needs to be shown in practice to just be...nothing. Now, large scale movements can do that lot more effectively and a lot more quickly but we're not going to get that large scale movement without doing the small stuff first, the face-to-face stuff.

This is possibly a sort of opp for me to use my fav marty glaberman quote, as it fits with just a few changed terms:

It's essential to reject the idea that nothing can happen until white workers are no longer racist. I don't know what anybody thinks the Russian workers in 1917 were. They were sexist. They were nationalist. A lot of them were under the thumb of the church. But they made a goddamn revolution that began to change them. Whether there's a social explosion or not doesn't depend on any formal attitudes or supporting this particular organisation or that particular organisation.

 

[Delroy Booth]

Now, if you are naive OMG my eyes have been opened! type like CM (and the hero worship just intensifies this) then it appears to be very easy to lose your bearings - and the same thing will be played out for many many other angry people just coming to political conclusions in a society where alternative (say left-wing for ease for now) viewpoints and organisations don't have much rootedness or even visibility in w/c communities, but where this sort of thing does offer a set of psuedo-answers and a pseudo-community for them to be involved in. That really is a poisonous situation.

Agree with this a lot. See this all the time in my own experiences, although it must be said it's usually a lot easier to counter this kind of stuff with normal people, most people actually can accept fact and arguments if you put it to them in a respectful way, not in this borderline religiou dogma that Jazzz has got himself caught up in.

(Someone linked a few months back to a doco about the growth of conspiracy theories in inner city black communities in the US recently, can't seem to find it now)

There's a whole series of articles on the Kasama project, American anarcho-maoist group, about the uptake of illuminati style conspiracies in inner city black communities. I'll try and dig it it up, might be useful.

Oh yeah and Immortal Technique, who I heard a rumour was once in the Communist Party USA and who self-identified as a socialist, now appears on Alex Jones radio shows pushing a lot of this troof stuff, he's probably the most high-profile exponent of this. Being courted a lot by Alex Jones as a counter to critics that he, and his movement, are deeply racist.

He's gone from this sort of thing


to pushing this shite "bush knocked down the towers"

 

[butchersapron]

Yep, think it was Kasama, the nutty let me go to nepal types, cheers. They always reminds me of this line from Albert Meltzer's autobiography:

Orwell also said that Weisbord had once campaigned to be Governor of New York State on a manifesto addressed "To the Workers and Peasants of Brooklyn".

 

[Delroy Booth]

Kasama might be totally fringe nutjob camp, but every now and they do put some worthwhile articles on that blog. Far better than some of the more sensible groups in many instances. The comments sections are a good laugh too.

 

[TruXta]

Anecdotally I've seen a good few Black Supremacist groups having stands and whatnot in Brixton and around town lately. Can't remember seeing them much until the last year or two.

 

[el-ahrairah]

tbh i've seen them on and off for the whole 6 or so years i've been here.

 

[sihhi]

Now, if you are naive OMG my eyes have been opened! type like CM (and the hero worship just intensifies this) then it appears to be very easy to lose your bearings - and the same thing will be played out for many many other angry people just coming to political conclusions in a society where alternative (say left-wing for ease for now) viewpoints and organisations don't have much rootedness or even visibility in w/c communities, but where this sort of thing does offer a set of psuedo-answers and a pseudo-community for them to be involved in. That really is a poisonous situation.

(Someone linked a few months back to a doco about the growth of conspiracy theories in inner city black communities in the US recently, can't seem to find it now)

You are right. Blacks in Georgia where Cynthia is from - could as well be Atlanta or New Orleans or Florida are being turfed out of their houses because the mortgages are unaffordable, and this - from just about every tendency - is being blamed on "the banks" or "Wall Street" "Goldman Sachs" - associated sadly by media tropes with "rich Jews".

It does offer a set of answers and a strong community - that's been the case with Garveyism and the UNIA, black support for Governor Huey Long until he was assassinated in 1935, the genuinely 70% black participation in Jim Jones's People's Temple, the Nation of Islam in the north, the Nu-waubian Nation of Moors, the fringes of some of the black churches in the South, and the various black empowerment funds, the Black Hebrew Israelites - all based around conspiracism in one form or another. The stunning growth of the Nation of Islam in the black ghettos in the late 80s and early 90s after it seemed a dead organisation. The truth movement variation is only one of a long list.

Now that Obama (an identikit Chicago Democrat - but somehow retaining the image of something of a radical throughout 2002-2008) has failed so deeply and living conditions under even a black President have got worse (official black America NAACP said it would get better) the explanation must lie in other forces ie the Jewish-Responsible Negro alliance, except now this is often understood in terms of Illuminati deceiving responsible black America, hence 'BET is controlled by Illuminati Hollywood, the TV and films are full of garbage' 'Illuminati bring in drugs', 13 Illuminati families helped start the trading companies helped form drug cartels during the early modern era, now they have links to Mexican cartels and flood ghettos with drugs. Key figures from rap music - Mos Def, Lupe Fiasco, Killer Mike - all focused on on black poltical self-assertion in their lyrics - all claim Islamists did not participate 9-11, the 9-11 conspiracy even has its supporters amongst some of the other drug-dealer gangster self-assertion wing of rap music (LOX and Jadakiss).

The radical black nationalist vision has partly merged with a conspiracist outlook - the New Black Panther Party is a wholly conspiracist organisation, as are parts of the African People's Socialist Party. So conspiracy theorising is not a massive deviation - that Cynthia McKinney is doing it is not something wildly unprecedented. It's just Jazzz wants to sustain conspiracism for his own particular ends - I suspect something along the lines of hooking up UKIP opponents of the EU along with the alternative/ deep green / peace movements (the peace movement being the one under heaviest truth movement pressure right now) - ie their combination to sideline and suffocate non-electoral anti-EU-and-anti-UK "leftist" popular movements.

 

[William of Walworth]

Has there ever been any troofer or conspiracist anywhere, ever, who is demonstrably and functionally rational and logical? Or even sane?

Threads like this make me strongly doubt it ... though tbf I've always doubted it.

 

[existentialist]

Has there ever been any troofer or conspiracist anywhere, ever, who is demonstrably and functionally rational and logical? Or even sane?

Threads like this make me strongly doubt it ... though tbf I've always doubted it.

TBF, I don't think it is possible to be demonstrably sane.

 

[William of Walworth]

Possibly the opposite though, in this context ...

 

[Delroy Booth]

Can I just ask politely as a newcomer, how come Jazzz has actually been able to get away with this on this message board for so many years?

I've just been reading through the thread linked earlier from 5 years ago where the architect bloke turned up and comprehensively rinsed Jazzz's stupid waffling about engineering, I'm 10 pages into it and my jaw's just hanging open. Check out this exchange. Can't quote (don't have the "privilige" apparently you oppressive fascists) but the architect calls out Jazzz on some of his pseudo-science bullshit, as is tradition, and sums up quite succinctly why he's wrong.

TheArchitect

But above all, what physical evidence do we have?

We HAVE physical evidence of planes hitting the building. We HAVE physical evidence of severe fires. We HAVE physical evidence of buckling of the external facades. We HAVE eyewitness reports of structural damage and requests for engineers.

We HAVE bugger all evidence of explosives.

to which Jazzz started his wriggling by saying...

Sure, but as is being pointed out, wires would be noticed, and would take plenty of time on site. You cannot view this from a commercial/civilian framework, it must a military one. With unlimited expense and time spent planning and offsite, and the best military expertise one cannot say it would not be possible. And indeed you are not.

Years, not months, of planning. This was surely the dress rehearsal.

which gets the perfectly reasonably reply from The Architect

But Jazz, you have no physical proof whatsoever for this.

That makes it a matter of belief, not reason, and we're not here for a religious argument.

If you have physical evidence of explosives, then produce it.

and then Jazzz comes out with this belter (emphasis mine)

What nonsense. It is entirely possible to reason and discuss different opinions on subjects without there being any requirement for anyone to come up with a blood-stained carving knife. This is not a court of law. I'll be happy to elaborate on the evidence for CD (much of which you can find in Steve Jones' paper). But did you read the Fire Engineering article in which the investigation was described as 'half-baked farce'? I have no proof of how the towers fell. But nor has anyone else.

You can't argue with logic like that, you just can't. This is a religious argument. You've got a better chance of converting Westboro Baptist Church to Judaism than getting anything but inane bullshit from this person. This is the person, lest we forget, who jettisoned his last 9/11 thread after he recommended attaching a wire to yourself and putting it in the plug socket in all seriousness, a new low even for this veteran dickhead, before he started this one. No doubt once this thread is full of similarly embarassing refuations, captain facepalm will just start another one and on and on it goes.

Now I'm new here, and it hasn't dawned on me until quite recently just how long he's being doing this. Honestly, and I swear I don't meam this as a sectarian insult, it reminds me a lot of a full-time trot. A career trot, with Lenin duvet covers and Trotsky pyjamas. Or maybe a cynical trot, who threw out his books years ago and starting voting Labour and now just goes through the motions because they need to pay the bills somehow, so they keep on blindy repeating the dogma and the party line no matter how stupid it appears.

I do wonder if Jazzz draws an income out of what he does. He's either doing it for a living or utterly insane. Potentially both. The interesting thing is, he's not just some lonely guy in a basement, some tragic case who's being exploited, or a daft kid who'll realise it's all stupid in 3 years, but someone fairly competent, involved marginally in some of the groups he goes on about. He's definitely a fantasist and a bit gullible, and the hero-worship of people like Cynthia M is hilariously earnest, like a doe eyed SWP'er going to Marxism back in the old days for the first time and meeting Tony Cliff, Paul Foot and Duncas Hallas and hanging around on their fringes, buffing their vanity and giving him/her chance to bask in their reflected glory, to get close to the vanguard, honestly that's how it looks to me.

I'm going to end up reading that 135 page trainwreck thread from 2007 now and feeling rougher than a badgers arse by the end of it. I bet it's even more cathartic, infuriating and depressing than the Beating the Fascists thread. But this is all quite new to me, and I'm at the stage of grim fascination and morbid curiosity, but I want to know how has everyone else actually put up with this bullshit for so long? Seriously? The guy posts up really genuinely offensive shit constantly, laced with anti-semitism and dangerous advice the like plug socket stuff. And he's not just a lone nut, look at the other thread from back in the day, he had all his clown buddies from the Icke forum circus turn up and try it on too! I mean would you actually have a long-term scientologist recruiter on here, pushing anti-pysch stuff and dangerous advice systematically over years, using the forum as a recruitment and promotion platform? Or any of the other faces in this freakshow, so admirably catalogued and analyzed by so many of the posters on here over quite a long period of time ( butchersapron and sihhi deserve credit in particular on this) would they be welcome to push this stuff too? Gilad Atzmon? Vile creature that he is, i don't think he ever stooped as low as to try claiming the Sandy Hook school shooting massacre, y'know where all those children died ffs, was a hoax on the basis of a picture of an owl drawn by a child, just to pick a single recent example. Or am I wrong there? Maybe Atzmon did, I don't actually know, point is I don't think he should actually get away with it just because he's part of furniture round here and people get a kick out of indulging him. god knows.

 

[JimW]

Can I just ask politely as a newcomer, how come Jazzz has actually been able to get away with this on this message board for so many years?

He doesn't realise it, but he's the unwitting foil in our long-running conspiracy to discredit by making look foolish any sceptics, thus avoiding uncomfortable questions about how we blew the towers up using ultra-high-pressure colloidal silver hoses earthed to the mains.

 

[frogwoman]

Some excellent from butchers, delroy and sihhi here - i've been trying to say this sort of stuff (about the appeal of conspiracy theorists etc) on here before a lot of people think on here and in the left in general that it's totally marginal, but it's not.

The flipside of all this, of course, is that it could (and almost certainly already has) alienate a lot of young jewish people (and not just them!) who are just coming to political conclusions from anti-war etc stuff given the acceptance of the likes of Galloway, McKinney etc in the movement and the perception of them (not really doing much to be dispelled) as being "lefties" against the system etc or anything to do with "alternative" politics and push them towards a hard-right islamophobic zionist UKIP/EDL stance, ironically relying on a pro-war, pro-israel conspiracy theory narrative of its own about "Eurabia" and so on. I've posted a bit on here before about how I had zionist/anti-muslim beliefs in my teens and so on.

If notthing is counteracted by your experience and if you can see its not for the likes of you then what then?