The comments from this news article are absolutely hilarious.
Tory UK EU Exit Referendum
- Thread starter paolo
- Start date
I heard some joking comment that UKIP aren't campaigning very hard because if they're successful they'll be out of a job. It seems to be absolutely true UKIP seem to be absolutely absent an invisible.Farage said today that if it was a close win for remain there would have to be a 2nd referendumI am confident that if he has a narrow victory we will also welcome a 2nd referendum
ffsear
Well-Known Member
Bizarre was what I thought too, about that one.
He launches a cogent attack on the EU's capitalist ills, yet can't hold his nose and vote Brexit .... his reasoning (such as it is) is appallingly expressed, and his 'logic' is explained even more badly.
It will be so good if the Brexit vote wins. Just stick it to all the politicians and bureaucrats. I'm certain the main reason that those in power want us to stay, is just to make life easier for themselves, I would be delighted to have them beavering around trying to sort things out.
And if it takes a long time to disentangle from Europe, no problem and things properly aren't going change to much at all. I can't believe anyone would want to miss the opportunity to really piss off David Cameron and the European bureaucrats. Probably the only time the UK people will have an opportunity to do this.
And if it takes a long time to disentangle from Europe, no problem and things properly aren't going change to much at all. I can't believe anyone would want to miss the opportunity to really piss off David Cameron and the European bureaucrats. Probably the only time the UK people will have an opportunity to do this.
There's plenty of equally distrustworthy politicians on the Brexit side though, who are just as much part of the establishment.
jakethesnake
In bed for Britain
Johnson is certainly not coming out of this looking very good, the shine is coming off his loveable buffoon schtick. Gove has always been a repellent freak so no change there.
gosub
~#
The whole point of the referendum from a Tory point of view, is to stop disenchanted tories slipping into UKIP. Last thing they want is to give UKIP a voice. Actually no, the last thing they would want is to deliver the type of Leave that they are talking up.
Make it look like you've made an effort whilst losing and accept as many back into the tory fold as possible and paint the rest bad losing obsessives.
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
I just had a discussion with a colleague who said that the UK is the the Eu's biggest export nation. After trying to verify this we found a range of varying figures; from this fairly dubious source saying over 16% of Eu exports ar to the UK, while this economist article says its only 3.1%.
From what I've seen the economist is quite partial to Bremain while that fullfact.org site looka like a Boris Brexis propaganda piece.
Can anyone point me to a more reliable source of data for such a fundamental question?
From what I've seen the economist is quite partial to Bremain while that fullfact.org site looka like a Boris Brexis propaganda piece.
Can anyone point me to a more reliable source of data for such a fundamental question?
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Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Any chance he's doing this as a favour to the remain side? I'm beginning to think he might be working undercover.
jakethesnake
In bed for Britain
It's possible. I think he sees himself as a Churchillian figure and is preparing for his 'wilderness years'.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Hopefully he just kills himself instead
jakethesnake
In bed for Britain
That would be favourite
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
Thanks, but I still couldnt find the data in those links to back up the claims.
gosub
~#
Well, from them I could see how Economist got its 3%, and I went away well thinking we can't possibly be importing shed loads of services, but why I added the caveat, is a spanish bank or a Italian insurer washing though London import or export? Instinct says one thing. Their natural inclination to cloud everything though ultra complex dealings says ask someone who knows better.
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
Yeah, all very hazy. The economist even contradicts itself in another article i found here stating that 6.6% of Eu goods are exported to the UK.
If i do some rough calculations from the data in those links, it checks out closer to the 15% favourex bythe brexit lobbyists.
Here are my workings: The OTS page you linked to catagorically states that the UK imported 20.2B in March this year.
So compare that to the eu trade list (2015 totals) you linked to
1. USA - €371B - 20%
2. China - €170B - 9%
Now when you subtract the UKs exports.to the US from the Eu total exports we could well be on or close to level peggings with the US at round 15/16% or the €300B ball park (at least according to my back of beer mat calcs)
Id love to see what a real economist would make of this. Is the economist (journal) scaremongering or are the brxiteers misrepresenting our importance as a trading partner for the Eu?
If i do some rough calculations from the data in those links, it checks out closer to the 15% favourex bythe brexit lobbyists.
Here are my workings: The OTS page you linked to catagorically states that the UK imported 20.2B in March this year.
So looking at the graph on the same page that figure seems consistant throughout the year, therefore we imported around£224b of goods in the past year from the Eu. That's €286B
So compare that to the eu trade list (2015 totals) you linked to
1. USA - €371B - 20%
2. China - €170B - 9%
Now when you subtract the UKs exports.to the US from the Eu total exports we could well be on or close to level peggings with the US at round 15/16% or the €300B ball park (at least according to my back of beer mat calcs)
Id love to see what a real economist would make of this. Is the economist (journal) scaremongering or are the brxiteers misrepresenting our importance as a trading partner for the Eu?
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Sorry I've changed my mind about not posting here, don't judge me, Internet addiction is a disease.
A lot of the nuanced arguments in favour of staying in the EU seem to be at odds with the impression I get that the European Union is in chaos at the moment due to the pressures caused by the migrant crisis. Dodgy deals with Turkey and countries bristling at the idea of being forced to take migrants.
It seems a world away when the odd silly bit of EU legislation would get in the news.
What is the safe and secure option?
In terms of migration the European politician say Britain, people come here because there are so many welfare benefits, Healthcare etc, they suggest making it less attractive by reducing social welfare. And I wonder if that fits in rather well with the Tory philosophy. How's that going to help poor British people of all races and religions and backgrounds.
Contrast that with separating from the EU, choosing how much immigration we want and putting our energies into our own young, black, white, Asian populations, securing their employment future in giving them a better chance to find accommodation and get on the property ladder.
All this talk about being poorer but is money the only thing that matters. Seems to be that big businesses love migrant workers and the big businesses do all they can to avoid paying tax.
Leaving the EU seems like an eminently suitable idea, we might be so glad we did if Europe descends into chaos financial ruin.
Resist the urge to leap on my back here but mass migration from the Middle East and Africa in vast number. four new countries are soon to be joining the EU. And then the possibility of Turkey joining the Schengen area. Turkey a virtual dictatorship which is next door to the Isis and daily suicide bombing parts of the world. The idea that those lot could have an easy way for unimpeded travel through Europe, is worrying to me.
A lot of the nuanced arguments in favour of staying in the EU seem to be at odds with the impression I get that the European Union is in chaos at the moment due to the pressures caused by the migrant crisis. Dodgy deals with Turkey and countries bristling at the idea of being forced to take migrants.
It seems a world away when the odd silly bit of EU legislation would get in the news.
What is the safe and secure option?
In terms of migration the European politician say Britain, people come here because there are so many welfare benefits, Healthcare etc, they suggest making it less attractive by reducing social welfare. And I wonder if that fits in rather well with the Tory philosophy. How's that going to help poor British people of all races and religions and backgrounds.
Contrast that with separating from the EU, choosing how much immigration we want and putting our energies into our own young, black, white, Asian populations, securing their employment future in giving them a better chance to find accommodation and get on the property ladder.
All this talk about being poorer but is money the only thing that matters. Seems to be that big businesses love migrant workers and the big businesses do all they can to avoid paying tax.
Leaving the EU seems like an eminently suitable idea, we might be so glad we did if Europe descends into chaos financial ruin.
Resist the urge to leap on my back here but mass migration from the Middle East and Africa in vast number. four new countries are soon to be joining the EU. And then the possibility of Turkey joining the Schengen area. Turkey a virtual dictatorship which is next door to the Isis and daily suicide bombing parts of the world. The idea that those lot could have an easy way for unimpeded travel through Europe, is worrying to me.
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What, specifically, do you disagree with though?
magneze
🎧
Vote In to leave in a mythical referendum under a possible future Labour government. The rest of it is well thought out, that's a stupid conclusion.
So it's not the premises, just the conclusion?
There are TWO conclusions.
The sub writing the standfirst understood: "There are many good reasons for the UK to leave the EU. But exiting now would allow Johnson and Gove to turn Britain into a neoliberal fantasy island".
gosub
~#
Tory majority 12. Plus they are a minority in Lords
gosub
~#
Well as you don't want to think about the technical feasibility of the trade deals or the economic cost of leaving the single market.....How do you expect to get the 69% of MP's that have publicly backed the EU to vote through your immigration lead Leave option?
My background is in sales and business and the ability of Britain to do trade deals if out doesn't concern me in the slightest. I think leaving the EU will make people in business feel energised and enthusiastic.
I tend not to defer to someone else's opinion even if they are someone as important as a member of Parliament I weighed the decision myself.
Anyway this is nothing to do with with the MPs as it's a public referendum, it is you and I will be deciding.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
These "people in business" that you claim will feel "energised and enthusiastic" by Brexit...is that the workers or the capitalists?
gosub
~#
If you look at what vote Leave says happens after winning a referendum:Its down to the government. The government has already told you there are 4 possible leaves, 2 that involve staying in the single market, two that involve leaving the single market (you'd have to leave the single market to do anything about immigration. In has run a campaign, based on fear primarily on the dangers of leaving the single market. The only plausible exits therefore EFTA or Swiss model (Swiss model would also take about 8 years rather than the 2 allotted), as squares circle between the MP's arguments and an expressed will of the people.
But I can't stop you banging on about something that won't change as a result of the referendum, which enables the other side to bang on about the dangers posed by things that wouldn't happen as a result of the the referendum. Bit of a waste of a referendum though, a chance to change our relationship with the organisation of Europe (and the world) squandered by banging on about unease with the peoples of EUrope (and the wider world)
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