[Thu 1st Mar 2012] Class Wars/Culture Wars: Owen Jones and the Chavs (London, WC2A 2AE)

[butchersapron]

Nah, there's nowaiiiii it's an academic study of anything. Like I say, it's basically a bunch of researched news clippings sellotaped together with a handful of interviews with meejah figures, and a couple of quotes from Yer Average Working Class Povs thrown in, probably at the insistence of his editor to make it look as though he actually did some work at some point or other.
It reads as though he knocked it up in his spare time, tbh. Which he probably did. As Butchers (I think) is suggesting, most of us could have done similar.

Most of us could have done it - most of us wouldn't have got it published.

 

[temper_tantrum]

you will not believe the nepotism that goes on and the importance of connections

Yes I would

I dunno about his background, as Butchers said on the other thread, his parents are an academic and a council worker.

Edit:

Most of us could have done it - most of us wouldn't have got it published.

Precisely. So glad we agree on this

 

[frogwoman]

Seriously on my first day there someone i was working with said "the books going to be really good because his dad is so and so and he knows so and so"

 

[frogwoman]

to be fair though it's not just books like jones's, i bet that the vast majority of books that get published are both aimed and written by upper middle class people, even fiction. it's very rare to be honest that you get to read books (although perhaps kindle's different) that are about anyone who isnt quite rich, even "gritty" crime thrillers and so on (apart from Ian Rankin and some sci-fi). I read a lot of books and I've also noticed that so many of what gets published is very similar just because of "trends" in the publishing industry, not just to do with class. somebody could write a very good book but it may not get published because it isn't "trendy" at the industry at that time.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

is he actually upper class though?

He describes himself as middle class (Dad was a lecturer). Oxford Uni, then a researcher for Labour?

I got the book for Christmas and have found it annoyingly lightweight as well. His "why can't Labour get its act together?" routine on twitter is increasingly comic/tragic to watch.

It's been a while since I read it, but "The Likes of Us" by Michael Collins was a better book, though also plagued by misty eyed romanticism iirc.

"Estates" by Lynsey Hanley covers similar territory (in terms of housing) and is not exactly up there for penetrating analysis, but is also a better book than "Chavs".

 

[temper_tantrum]

It's been a while since I read it, but "The Likes of Us" by Michael Collins was a better book, though also plagued by misty eyed romanticism iirc.

"Estates" by Lynsey Hanley covers similar territory (in terms of housing) and is not exactly up there for penetrating analysis, but is also a better book than "Chavs".

Ta for these I have the former in my reading pile, and the latter is on my wishlist.

 

[october_lost]

PS. I bet he'll stand for Parliament within the next decade.

I remember reading Owen's posts on the UK left network, and the occassional spats he had with the CPGB (early piece), one thing is for sure, I am guessing he doesn't talk about Lenin and imperialism as much, but were talking 10-12 years ago. He seems to have drifted on the well-trode path before ending up with the Labour Representation Committee.

 

[frogwoman]

bloody hell at that piece. while i don't agree with what the serbs did to the kosovan albanians being genocide, calling it a falsification is a bit fucking much.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

"Imagine being a poor working-class youth in Britain today" (Chavs, p210).

 

[romeo2001]

to be fair though it's not just books like jones's, i bet that the vast majority of books that get published are both aimed and written by upper middle class people, even fiction. it's very rare to be honest that you get to read books (although perhaps kindle's different) that are about anyone who isnt quite rich, even "gritty" crime thrillers and so on (apart from Ian Rankin and some sci-fi). I read a lot of books and I've also noticed that so many of what gets published is very similar just because of "trends" in the publishing industry, not just to do with class. somebody could write a very good book but it may not get published because it isn't "trendy" at the industry at that time.

this isnt a serious post surely? how can you read a lot of books and it be rare that you read books about people who arent quite rich? There are loads

 

[butchersapron]

this isnt a serious post surely? how can you read a lot of books and it be rare that you read books about people who arent quite rich? There are loads

And yet...it can still be quite rare for someone to read them. (To publish and write them is the larger point).

 

[frogwoman]

i think it's got worse in recent years btw - look at a lot of/most of the bestsellers list for example.

 

[dynamicbaddog]

Thought he done well on 5 live last night, challenging Edwina Currie when she yet again tried to deny that child poverty exists in Britain today.
BTW tickets for the Class Wars/Culture Wars talk become available online from this Monday (6th Feb)

 

[butchersapron]

How odd that an oxbridge boy is on 5live talking politics for and to us.

 

[dynamicbaddog]

How odd that an oxbridge boy is on 5live talking politics for and to us.

he went there from a comprehensive school .
http://labourlist.org/2011/06/abolish-oxbridge/

 

[butchersapron]

And?

 

[articul8]

Finally getting around to reading it - it's all a bit predictable really.

 

[articul8]

I remember reading Owen's posts on the UK left network, and the occassional spats he had with the CPGB (early piece), one thing is for sure, I am guessing he doesn't talk about Lenin and imperialism as much, but were talking 10-12 years ago. He seems to have drifted on the well-trode path before ending up with the Labour Representation Committee.

He's isn't LRC now - he's kind of around "Next Generation Labour" - which seems like a Socialist Action thing

 

[Smokeandsteam]

He's isn't LRC now - he's kind of around "Next Generation Labour" - which seems like a Socialist Action thing

Who? Is this Livingstone et al? Didn't he work for John McDonnell and/or Alan Simpson who are Campaign Group/LRC?

 

[dynamicbaddog]

Who? Is this Livingstone et al? Didn't he work for John McDonnell and/or Alan Simpson who are Campaign Group/LRC?

As far as I know he has'nt left the LRC, but he's not been that active in it of late. NGL seem to be a new group, dunno much about them. - http://nextgenerationlabour.org/2012/01/austerity-isnt-working-join-our-discussion/

 

[articul8]

Who? Is this Livingstone et al? Didn't he work for John McDonnell and/or Alan Simpson who are Campaign Group/LRC?

He wasn't very complimentary about LRC when I last spoke to him - "some good people but they'll never achieve anything" was the gist

 

[love detective]

they'll never achieve as much as owen jones 'doing the papers' on sky news will

 

[articul8]

Do people get paid for that kind of gig? Or do it for the exposure?

 

[butchersapron]

Course they get paid. Look at the MPs registers of interests and you'll see just how much.

 

[articul8]

Well I can't believe the royalties of a even a successful book with Verso would give you an income to live off - so that only leaves media handouts or parental subs. He's definitely a full-time "commentator" now

 

[frogwoman]

sorry i missed this - was he commentating on the papers etc with sky? (i havent looked at the news for ages sorry)

 

[love detective]

'doing the papers' is the real movement which abolishes the present state of things

 

[frogwoman]

'doing the papers' is the real movement which abolishes the present state of things

so this type of thing basically?

 

[Wolveryeti]

How odd that an oxbridge boy is on 5live talking politics for and to us.

How odd that Botchers is going on about Oxbridge again. Did he get jilted at interviews, I wonder?

 

[frogwoman]

that's the onl reason to mention oxbridge, obviously