the neoliberal vision of the future

[fredfelt]

neo-liberalism is being imposed by democracy. It is democracy.

I'm late to this thread so I may be repeating what others have said but your post jumped out at me.

Neo-liberalism needs strong sovereign states in order to impose a neo-liberal model but it is not democracy by any measure. Neo-liberalism is in direct conflict with democracy.

Briefly a corporation wants to exploit resources as quickly as possible at the lowest cost to turn a maximun profit. A corporation will respond to resource and market conditions to ensure it can continue to exploit resources as quickly as possible from wherever it can obtain these resources. This poluting, resource hungry and volatile behaviour is not in the interest of a sovereign state.

A democratic sovereign state (should) aim to provide stability and basic human rights for it's people. It provides a social security net, (even if in the extreme cases this social security comes as some form of penal intervention - I'm thinking of the huge amount of people locked up in the US). For a sovereign state provide for its people, or in the very least to remain competitive it must aim to preserve it's resources.

The neo-liberal project also enshrines in law that its institutions are based on profit, not on democratic representation. As soon as something is privatised, or outsourced from state control it no longer has democratic representation.

Because of capital flight many controls which a state used to have over the economy are now also devolved to 'the market'. It's nearing the stage that the states control over their economy is limited to changing the money supply.

Global corporations operate with directly opposing interests to sovereign states. Neo-liberalism is not by any measure democracy!

 

[onarchy]

I saw that I was mentioned in this thread and that someone wants to kill me because I am a peace lover. Are you guys for real? Do you really think that neo-liberals are crypto-Nazis that are laughing an evil laughter while trying to take over the world? I will try to answer any misunderstanding of what you have about liberalism, and about the Free State Initiative. For some reason it seemed to be a lot more interesting to you to focus on WHO was behind the FSI and what kind of reputation that person has rather than to look at WHAT was being said. I find that to be a pattern with socialists all over the world. It's always about WHO says a thing, and if it's the "wrong" person it's ok to dismiss everything that person says without thought.

 

[butchersapron]

I saw that I was mentioned in this thread and that someone wants to kill me because I am a peace lover. Are you guys for real? Do you really think that neo-liberals are crypto-Nazis that are laughing an evil laughter while trying to take over the world? I will try to answer any misunderstanding of what you have about liberalism, and about the Free State Initiative. For some reason it seemed to be a lot more interesting to you to focus on WHO was behind the FSI and what kind of reputation that person has rather than to look at WHAT was being said. I find that to be a pattern with socialists all over the world. It's always about WHO says a thing, and if it's the "wrong" person it's ok to dismiss everything that person says without thought.

No you weren't - fuck off

 

[DotCommunist]

Vanity googler- who are you?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What the fucking fuck are you babbling about?

First and last post, I hope.

 

[onarchy]

You profanity and rudeness neither scares nor shocks me. Bullying is after all the very essence of fascism, and in my experience the vast majority of socialists are fascists, i.e. people who want to use force against peaceful individuals to make people march in unity. Deviants are not accepted.

Neither does it surprise me that the socialists on this list reacts with horror that a peace lover enters their "domain" without their approval, and at the same time profanity, rudeness and death threats are considered perfectly legitimate behavior.

Now, how about we start a civil conversation? Or is that a bit too much to ask from a socialist? Guns and brute force are preferred?

 

[DotCommunist]

the vast majority of socialists are fascists

you expect a civilized conversation after coming out with this shit?

 

[Captain Hurrah]

At least it isn't the tattooed creep who hangs around with Filipina prostitutes.

 

[onarchy]

you expect a civilized conversation after coming out with this shit?

This is just a statement of fact. Mussolini was the leader of the Italian Socialist party until WWI, and then he left/was ousted because he disagreed on which side Italy should side with in the war. But he remained a true socialist all his life, as did Hitler. Göring stated in the early 20s that Lenin was the greatest man on earth, next to Hitler, and that the difference between Nazism and Bolshevism was "very slight." In his private diary intended for only his own eyes Joseph Goebbels wrote that the intention of the invasion of the Soviet Union was to replace Bolshevism with "true socialism."

In general, Mussolini defined fascism as FORCED UNITY: "nothing outside the state, all inside the state." Or put in the words of the Nazi-leader Robert Ley: "you are allowed to be free from the state only when you sleep." (he said that as a GOOD thing) The Fascists and the Nazis were adherents of the cradle-to-grave welfare state. The slogan of the Hitler Jugend was "people's health is not a private matter." (They advocated public health care) The Nazi-slogan was "the common good before self-interest."

The Bolsheviks and the Nazis were twin ideologies, and you can even see this expressed explicitly in this Nazi worker day emblem from 1934:

http://www.vaticanassassins.org/wp-...ay-Emblem_1934_Fascism-Supports-Communism.jpg

here you can see the swastika in harmonious union with the communist hammer and sickle.

So when I say that socialists are fascists (and vice versa) I have pretty good historic backing for my statement. It is not just something I made up.

 

[Blagsta]

You profanity and rudeness neither scares nor shocks me.Bullying is after all the very essence of fascism, and in my experience the vast majority of socialists are fascists, i.e. people who want to use force against peaceful individuals to make people march in unity. Deviants are not accepted.

Neither does it surprise me that the socialists on this list reacts with horror that a peace lover enters their "domain" without their approval, and at the same time profanity, rudeness and death threats are considered perfectly legitimate behavior.

Now, how about we start a civil conversation? Or is that a bit too much to ask from a socialist? Guns and brute force are preferred?

Errr...no it isn't.

 

[onarchy]

I notice that it is perfectly ok for people to swear and even make death threats/wishes on this forum, but for some reason MY post on the close relationship and similarity between nazism and communism is under moderation. Again I have to ask you: are you guys for real!? Is this some kind of cosmic joke on me or are there actually people out there who tolerate death threats, but react strongly to historical truths told by a peace lover?

Also, in this post you claim to be interested in what goes on inside the head of socalled "neo-liberals," and when one actually shows up to answer that (I'm apparently a "neo-liberal") then I'm ordered to fuck off?

 

[Santino]

cock off

 

[magneze]

I notice that it is perfectly ok for people to swear and even make death threats/wishes on this forum, but for some reason MY post on the close relationship and similarity between nazism and communism is under moderation. Again I have to ask you: are you guys for real!? Is this some kind of cosmic joke on me or are there actually people out there who tolerate death threats, but react strongly to historical truths told by a peace lover?

Also, in this post you claim to be interested in what goes on inside the head of socalled "neo-liberals," and when one actually shows up to answer that (I'm apparently a "neo-liberal") then I'm ordered to fuck off?

Yes, it is a cosmic joke. HTH.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Errr...no it isn't.

He's got a point though, I mean there are a lot of definitions of fascism on offer, but neither Mussolini nor any serious academic commentator I can think of has said that 'bullying is the essence of fascism'

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I mean, if it's helpful, the Third International apparently (according to Wikipedia, I haven't checked further yet) defines fascism thus:

"Fascism in power is the open, terroristic dictatorship of the most reactionary, the most chauvinistic, the most imperialistic elements of finance capitalism."

which seems fairly reasonable to me ... nothing about bullying or calling people names there though.

 

[butchersapron]

I mean, if it's helpful, the Third International apparently (according to Wikipedia, I haven't checked further yet) defines fascism thus: "Fascism in power is the open, terroristic dictatorship of the most reactionary, the most chauvinistic, the most imperialistic elements of finance capitalism." which seems reasonable to me ...

Which was one of the biggest most damaging mistakes of the 20th century.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Which was one of the biggest most damaging mistakes of the 20th century.

Really? Please educate me

 

[LLETSA]

I notice that it is perfectly ok for people to swear and even make death threats/wishes on this forum, but for some reason MY post on the close relationship and similarity between nazism and communism is under moderation. Again I have to ask you: are you guys for real!? Is this some kind of cosmic joke on me or are there actually people out there who tolerate death threats, but react strongly to historical truths told by a peace lover?

Also, in this post you claim to be interested in what goes on inside the head of socalled "neo-liberals," and when one actually shows up to answer that (I'm apparently a "neo-liberal") then I'm ordered to fuck off?

I think it would help if, as with so many other ultra-free marketeers who have unfortunately multiplied with the internet, you didn't come across as a bit of a swivel-eyed cult believer. What's all this peace-loverhistorical truth crap for instance? Talk like a normal person and tone down the martyr crap and people might take you seriously.

 

[LLETSA]

I notice that it is perfectly ok for people to swear and even make death threats/wishes on this forum, but for some reason MY post on the close relationship and similarity between nazism and communism is under moderation. Again I have to ask you: are you guys for real!? Is this some kind of cosmic joke on me or are there actually people out there who tolerate death threats, but react strongly to historical truths told by a peace lover?

It probably is some kind of cosmic joke, yes. These cosmic jokes are soemthing we all have to bear from time to time.

 

[Random]

Really? Please educate me

It made the Communists think fascism was just something cooked up by toffs and suits, nothing that could ever challenge them for influence within the working class or become a quasi-revolutionary mass movement.

 

[butchersapron]

Really? Please educate me

Will come back on this in a bit bernie.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

It made the Communists think fascism was just something cooked up by toffs and suits, nothing that could ever challenge them for influence within the working class or become a quasi-revolutionary mass movement.

Ah, OK. That makes sense.

 

[LLETSA]

It made the Communists think fascism was just something cooked up by toffs and suits, nothing that could ever challenge them for influence within the working class or become a quasi-revolutionary mass movement.

And what's more, the current wave of populist neo-fascism has nothing at all to do with finance capital.

 

[Random]

I saw that I was mentioned in this thread and that someone wants to kill me because I am a peace lover.

Are you the nordic conspiraloon?

 

[Blagsta]

I notice that it is perfectly ok for people to swear and even make death threats/wishes on this forum, but for some reason MY post on the close relationship and similarity between nazism and communism is under moderation. Again I have to ask you: are you guys for real!? Is this some kind of cosmic joke on me or are there actually people out there who tolerate death threats, but react strongly to historical truths told by a peace lover?

Also, in this post you claim to be interested in what goes on inside the head of socalled "neo-liberals," and when one actually shows up to answer that (I'm apparently a "neo-liberal") then I'm ordered to fuck off?

history fail

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Interestingly, according to the same Wikipedia article (in the middle of something, hence not researching properly right now) George Orwell does mention the 'bullying' interpretation of fascism, but uses that to illustrate how the word has been so devalued as to be meaningless.

 

[Random]

Please don't scare off the Norwegian loon, I think his ideas are interesting. In fact I may become a follower of his school of thought; I think they're called onarnists.

 

[Random]

Interestingly, according to the same Wikipedia article (in the middle of something, hence not researching properly right now) George Orwell does mention the 'bullying' interpretation of fascism, but uses that to illustrate how the word has been so devalued as to be meaningless.

Is this where he's talking about the goose step? Which is another thing not unique to fascism; you should see the tutu wearing guards at the Greek Presidency doing an even bigger version.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm late to this thread so I may be repeating what others have said but your post jumped out at me.

Neo-liberalism needs strong sovereign states in order to impose a neo-liberal model but it is not democracy by any measure. Neo-liberalism is in direct conflict with democracy.



The neo-liberal project also enshrines in law that its institutions are based on profit, not on democratic representation. As soon as something is privatised, or outsourced from state control it no longer has democratic representation.

Thanks for simplifying it for me phil. When you say 'project' you mean state right?

 

[Crispy]

I notice that it is perfectly ok for people to swear and even make death threats/wishes on this forum, but for some reason MY post on the close relationship and similarity between nazism and communism is under moderation.

That's because our spam filter automatically blocks posts from newbies if they have lots of links in them, as yours did. I have now approved your post. Welcome to the boards.

PS: Socialism = Nazis LOL