SWP expulsions and squabbles

[TremulousTetra]

I wonder, the failure of the party to hegemonise workers - where and why that?

wtf,

 

[ViolentPanda]

Nobody enjoys this stuff butchers. The hackiest loyalist I know wishes a certain person had kept their dick in their trousers and behaved differently. Thats obvious. Being forced to get down to brass tacks and define what you basically believe is good for the soul though. And if it hadn't been this case then SEYMOUR! Would have found another reason to have a go. The seeds were sown when the party failed to hegemonise people it recruited after Millbank.

So not when those who should have indoctrinated the post-Millbank recruits were (fairly obviously) not themselves conditioned to attempt such a hegemonisation?
Fact is, the blame for dissent/factionalism/fracture within the SWP can't be placed at any specific juncture - it's an accumulation of events, decisions and political circumstances, and if it hadn't been the Delta issue, it'd very likely have been something else that also highlighted to the membership the failure of democratic centralism within the party.
Of course, not indoctrinating activists recruited from outside quickly and deeply enough did mean less of a likelihood of those people following a party line they disagreed with, which a lot of earlier Swappies would have choked down.

 

[Jean-Luc]

I see. Thanks. I'd never heard the word before. But isn't that what lots of groups do?

 

[TremulousTetra]

bolshiebhoy you've got under butchers skin, he can't talk straight.

 

[JimW]

you would prefer the organisation to be "baggy"?

I'd prefer it to live up to the tradition of working class self-organisation, an association of equals come together with a common purpose, which is a mile a way from herd 'em in and mould them to suit.

 

[butchersapron]

Damn, we should have hegenomised studes in 2011 - they would undoubtedly have loved that shit and went along with it.

Lefty management speak, that's all that is - fitting given the party is run on managerial lines.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What does "hegemonise" mean? How do you do it?

In this context, politically-indoctrinate them so that the SWP's political thought is the hegemonic (dominant) position in their political mindset - their "default setting" as it were.

 

[TremulousTetra]

I take it to mean something along the lines of get them fully and unswervingly on board with the programme, thinking within your framework etc., but perhaps BB can explain. Rubs me up the wrong way on the face of it.

Why?

 

[butchersapron]

I see. Thanks. I'd never heard the word before. But isn't that what lots of groups do?

Why the 'but'?

Do you want to manage other peoples struggles?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Damn, we should have hegenomised studes in 2011 - they would undoubtedly have loved that shit and went along with it.

Lefty management speak, that's all that is - fitting given the party is run on managerial lines.

I prefer "Indoctrinated". It's more honest.

 

[JimW]

Why?

I'm afraid you'll have to come to my recruitathon at a student union before I can tell you that.

 

[butchersapron]

I wonder just why the party" failed to hegemonise people it recruited after Millbank.".

Any ideas?

 

[Pickman's model]

where have I questioned their "positions". They are genuine anarchists. They are genuinely hostile to Lenin and Trotsky et cetera. I have said this kind of thing many times. But when they routinely do this

What's your point caller?

 

[DotCommunist]

where have I questioned their "positions". They are genuine anarchists. They are genuinely hostile to Lenin and Trotsky et cetera. I have said this kind of thing many times. But when they routinely do this

jean-luc isn't an anarchist tho, he's your lesser spotted squeegie iirc

 

[TremulousTetra]

In this context, politically-indoctrinate them so that the SWP's political thought is the hegemonic (dominant) position in their political mindset - their "default setting" as it were.

How can make something that "doesn't exist" the IS tradition, dominant?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I see. Thanks. I'd never heard the word before. But isn't that what lots of groups do?

Some do, some don't. Some actively encourage you to read outside of their tradition. The SWP (as an org, not as individual members of whatever standing) tend to recommend reading by authors wiithin their tradition, even commentaries written by members rather than originals written by long-dead comrades. That way you get their take, rather than forming your own.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'd prefer it to live up to the tradition of working class self-organisation, an association of equals come together with a common purpose, which is a mile a way from herd 'em in and mould them to suit.

With the moulders often being faux-proletarian professionals who want to do the herding and moulding.

 

[TremulousTetra]

What's your point caller?

feigning stupidity is another tactic they use.

 

[Pickman's model]

feigning stupidity is another tactic they use.

You make no point in the post I quoted where you break off in the middle of a sentence. I ask again, what is your point.

 

[JimW]

With the moulders often being faux-proletarian professionals who want to do the herding and moulding.

Who have all the answers but for some odd reason have remained on the margins for the better part of a century. Funny old world.

 

[butchersapron]

Who have all the answers but for some odd reason have remained on the margins for the better part of a century. Funny old world.

Will reveal like mahdi

 

[ViolentPanda]

How can make something that "doesn't exist" the IS tradition, dominant?

Few people have said it doesn't exist, numbnuts. They've said it's too broad, and too-often interpreted as meaning whatever the interpreter wants it to mean to be a decent focus. You only need look at how many groups lay claim to the IS tradition to realise that.

So, just to make it clear, I was talking about people being indoctrinated with the SWP version of the IS tradition. Simple enough for you?

 

[barney_pig]

jean-luc isn't an anarchist tho, he's your lesser spotted squeegie iirc

He's definitely a greater spotted squeegie, the much lesser spotted are the socialist studies lot

 

[ViolentPanda]

feigning stupidity is another tactic they use.

One that you deploy with alarming regularity.

 

[TremulousTetra]

Some do, some don't. Some actively encourage you to read outside of their tradition. The SWP (as an org, not as individual members of whatever standing) tend to recommend reading by authors wiithin their tradition, even commentaries written by members rather than originals written by long-dead comrades. That way you get their take, rather than forming your own.

can you give you an example of an organisation that supplies more, and a wider range of Revolutionary (R) educational material than the SWP?
http://www.bookmarksbookshop.co.uk/cgi/store/bookmark.cgi

(R) Anybody who would like to see an end to capitalist mode of social organisation and a transition to a classless mode of social existence.

 

[JimW]

Will reveal like mahdi

Fuck, I think I can remember his name, Benjamin Creme? Wonder how he'd handle sexual assault charges in the inner sanctum?

 

[butchersapron]

That is also absent from his armoury. The thick fuck.

 

[ViolentPanda]

He's definitely a greater spotted squeegie, the much lesser spotted are the socialist studies lot

It's true. You don't see SocStuds very often.

 

[TremulousTetra]

One that you deploy with alarming regularity.

I don't think I feign it. Nowhere near as well read as you a lot. Something I have never hidden.

But I know for fact, there is a massive gulf between what people say the SWP say, and what they actually do say.

 

[andysays]

Don't be so clueless. I know they have. People realising they felt that way wasn't the point I started feeling this thread was losing its charm. Christ that was about post 200. It lost its charm when it became people in the SP who barely understand their own party's politics sniggering about ear biting in another as indicative of something meaningful :-(

Again, you're missing the point (to give you the benefit of the doubt. Actually, I suspect you are deliberately misrepresenting the point). It's not the ear biting as such, it's the fact that the biter was then seen as a worthy and valuable member of the party who should be promoted to a position of responsibility which is the issue.

And given the numerous examples which have been cited here and on other blogs currently examining the slow death of the SWP, of a combination of bureaucratic manipulation and bullying by and on behalf of the CC, it's not too ridiculous to suggest that the biter was seen by the leadership as worthy of promotion precisely because of his tendency to physical violence, to ensure that the pure bloody members were discouraged from stepping out of line in thought or deed.

For all you've gone on about how the criticisms detailed here are allegedly "not political", it's been argued at some length how the SWP CC in recent years hasn't had any sort of consistent political position or strategy (again giving them some benefit of doubt; it's also been suggested by some that they haven't had such a thing for decades, or that the much trumpeted IS tradition has only ever existed in the minds of the faithful).

The only consistency (though hardly political) appears to be the mantra that the CC is always right, even when it is demonstrably wrong (complete about-turns in policy; substantial parts of the CC swanning off to set up their own rival sect, still claiming undying adherence to the IS tradition of course).

And now it's gone beyond that. Not only is the CC always right, but individual members of the CC are always right, even when one of them is accused of rape, and though supposedly exonerated of that (by the all-seeing light of the IS tradition...) thought by the chair of the investigating committee to be responsible of sexual harassment. Anyone who disagrees is told to shut up, or fuck off.

You may continue to claim that none of that is political, but if so you're living in your own little fantasy world, one which thankfully most people commenting here and most people on the wider left see as such.

Not political?


Yes It's Fucking Political