stuff_it
Too skool for cool
TBH I was more than happy with a pair of floor standing JBLs for home use. The neighbours less so.
I'd have thought the trick would be more to have it set up so that you can easily switch between the two as needs require.
Speaker / monitor advice for reggae
- Thread starter ringo
- Start date
I'd have thought the trick would be more to have it set up so that you can easily switch between the two as needs require.
ringo
Macaroni cheese controller
Needs have changed - I've moved so now have a dedicated, but smaller, listening room. Mrs R has pointed out that my speakers now fill most of what little space the record racks leave, and big speakers need a fair bit of room to sound good.
Anyway, one stack will do for now, I don't see any of the smaller alternatives cutting it.
ska invita
back on the other side
its intended to be heard in a mono stack
ringo
Macaroni cheese controller
What would a hifi buff know about it? Reggae 45s were written, produced, recorded & cut to vinyl to be specifically to be heard on a sound system, not hi fi speakers.
editor
hiraethified
That's not entirely true you know. Bob Marley's releases on Island records weren't targeted for makeshift sound systems - they were aimed at the mainstream.
Whenever someone asks for advice on what speakers I always suggest active monitors. I bit my lip in this case because I could see my words were not going to get a warm reception! Really though, get some active monitors. I like bass music and have some Alesis m1 mk2's which I'm very impressed with in terms of the bass output. And they only cost around £200. I bet you could get some lovely big monitors for £500 - £1k that would have a much fuller bass response than my Alesiss. And they'd sound amazing whatever you play through them (assuming the program material you're playing is amazing, of course!
)
ringo
Macaroni cheese controller
That is a ridiculous comment, of course Jamaican records were made to be played on Jamaican sound systems.
Calling them makeshift sound systems is a small minded insult. Jamaicans invented the sound system culture used all around the world today and are still its masters. JA sound systems were perfected over decades by skilled engineers using techniques that are still copied today.
It's quite an assumption that Marley didn't want his records played on sound system. Of course he craved international success, but he had spent ten years as a super star on sound system before signing with Island. Most of that time he was recording for Studio 1, who owned one of the top three sounds in the country and played his hits on it before anyone else. He was livid that by the mid seventies Johnny Clarke was covering his tunes and getting more play on sound system that his originals were. So much so that they came to blows over it.
And the Wailers output for Island does not represent reggae music, my ten year old knows that. It doesn't even represent the best of the Wailers.
Calling them makeshift sound systems is a small minded insult. Jamaicans invented the sound system culture used all around the world today and are still its masters. JA sound systems were perfected over decades by skilled engineers using techniques that are still copied today.
It's quite an assumption that Marley didn't want his records played on sound system. Of course he craved international success, but he had spent ten years as a super star on sound system before signing with Island. Most of that time he was recording for Studio 1, who owned one of the top three sounds in the country and played his hits on it before anyone else. He was livid that by the mid seventies Johnny Clarke was covering his tunes and getting more play on sound system that his originals were. So much so that they came to blows over it.
And the Wailers output for Island does not represent reggae music, my ten year old knows that. It doesn't even represent the best of the Wailers.
editor
hiraethified
Good job I didn't make those claims then. I was specifically talking about Marley's Island releases.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar06/articles/classictracks.htm
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Yeah and Ringo was talking about reggae 45s. 99% of which were not aimed at the mainstream.
editor
hiraethified
Sure but it's a bit of different story when you're setting up in a small room, no?
ska invita
back on the other side
ive got a pair of Alesis MK1 Reference for my [stern face] "studio work", and much as i understand what it is they do i get little pleasure out of them - theyre good at low volumes tbf, but not great turned up. My little cobbled together mono stack (+ pair of little wharfdale diamonds in stereo) sounds great up loud, especially the heavy colouration leading to an artificially boosted bass endWhenever someone asks for advice on what speakers I always suggest active monitors. I bit my lip in this case because I could see my words were not going to get a warm reception! Really though, get some active monitors. I like bass music and have some Alesis m1 mk2's which I'm very impressed with in terms of the bass output. And they only cost around £200. I bet you could get some lovely big monitors for £500 - £1k that would have a much fuller bass response than my Alesiss. And they'd sound amazing whatever you play through them (assuming the program material you're playing is amazing, of course!
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Well not really because blues parties in the UK were always in fairly small rooms and they used proper soundsystems.
ska invita
back on the other side
nah, whatever the room you need to have the bass weight
editor
hiraethified
Some high quality domestic systems can knock out a half ton of bass these days.
Look at how live PA systems have got more powerful yet much smaller.
ive got a pair of Alesis MK1 Reference for my [stern face] "studio work", and much as i understand what it is they do i get little pleasure out of them - theyre good at low volumes tbf, but not great turned up. My little cobbled together mono stack (+ pair of little wharfdale diamonds in stereo) sounds great up loud, especially the heavy colouration leading to an artificially boosted bass end
You're minimising the pleasure you get out of them because you're putting a stern face on for the studio work
I know what you mean, they don't sound fantastic at the top end of their dynamic range, but I believe the OP's requirement for a lot of loudness is diminishing, hence it may be worth considering something that sounds better at low volumes! Plus, the point I made about bigger active monitors still stands... And that monitors would sound great whatever you play through them. Some people say they're too clinical, etc. but I prefer the hi-fi approach of hearing the music exactly as it was intended to be heard... (Though that does leave my argument somewhat open to the counter argument of 'well then don't buy monitor speakers to listen to reggae' but then I knew my advice wasn't really going to be appropriate here anyway
)
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
"Techniques copied today". Hmmm. For other reggae systems maybe. That particular sound (which from a purely techie point of view is bloody awful ) is what makes it. That is the reggae sound. The records were written, recorded and cut around it. For anything else? Nah. PA design has come a long way since then.
) is what makes it. That is the reggae sound. The records were written, recorded and cut around it. For anything else? Nah. PA design has come a long way since then.
ska invita
back on the other side
When i say low volumes i mean low volumes - volumes below the legal limit at which a dub should ever be played (plus I sit right infront of them). The OP knows deep down whats good for him, and has over imagined his need for less loudness!You're minimising the pleasure you get out of them because you're putting a stern face on for the studio work
Some people say they're too clinical, etc. but I prefer the hi-fi approach of hearing the music exactly as it was intended to be heard... (Though that does leave my argument somewhat open to the counter argument of 'well then don't buy monitor speakers to listen to reggae' but then I knew my advice wasn't really going to be appropriate here anyway
ringo
Macaroni cheese controller
It's only taken 5 years, but I have a plan.
I'll keep my 2K rig set up but will try out a few of the suggested vintage speakers as and when I can get hold of them. Most are less than £500, eventually I'll find what sounds best in my room, and it'll be good fun.
First off I'm going to pick up some TDL RTL3s. Should be able to get an Ex condition pair that haven't been thrashed for about £200. From their reputation they will probably do it, and I have a selection of amps like a NAD 3020, a mosfet 1000W PA and a KT88 valve amp to try them out with.
If they don't cut it, or I fancy more experimenting, I'll check which model might suit best and go for the Celestion Dittons, then the B & W 600s, then some Tannoys.
I'll keep my 2K rig set up but will try out a few of the suggested vintage speakers as and when I can get hold of them. Most are less than £500, eventually I'll find what sounds best in my room, and it'll be good fun.
First off I'm going to pick up some TDL RTL3s. Should be able to get an Ex condition pair that haven't been thrashed for about £200. From their reputation they will probably do it, and I have a selection of amps like a NAD 3020, a mosfet 1000W PA and a KT88 valve amp to try them out with.
If they don't cut it, or I fancy more experimenting, I'll check which model might suit best and go for the Celestion Dittons, then the B & W 600s, then some Tannoys.
ringo
Macaroni cheese controller
Experiment #1 in full swing. Big thanks to teuchter for lending me his spare speakers and amp for a vintage audiophile perspective.
The speakers are the classic Kef 105 / 2s.
They're a lovely design, pretty big for hifi speakers, carry 12" woofers and are rated up to 200 watts.
I didn't bother attaching my old NAD 3020 as it would be a bit small. My valve amp and 1000W PA amp are both slightly damaged at the moment so neither was able to drive them very well. I then set them up with the amp teuchter used for them, the classic 1980's Audiolab 8000A.
From the first they were really impressive. Having listened to a 2000 watt PA rig for 20 years it was great to hear detailed sound which wasn't just pure brute air shifting power. Had a real treat running through some favourite tunes, and then testing it out on some classic jungle etc, enjoying a depth of sound I haven't been used to in decades.
The amp is rated at 60 watts per channel but in the usual audiophile gumph it's described as a big 60W with the necessary high current required to run these speakers. Good though it sounded I was keen to hear what another 25 years of advances in modern amplifier technology might sound like. I eventually plumped for the Cambridge Audio Azur 651, at the bigger end of hifi power ratings with 75 watts per channel, and including extra features like USB and jack inputs to play from laptops, phones, tablets, etc
When I first wired it up I wasn't sure at all, it didn't seem to be very loud or clear and I was struggling to see any improvement on the old Audiolab. The instructions demanded that it be run in for 160 hours continuously before it would sound at its best. I decided that was almost certainly bollocks.
I set up one amp on one speaker and the other on the second speaker for a proper comparison test, both set on direct to ignore the treble/bass controls. The Audiolab had to be on half volume to get the Kefs sounding good. The CA had to be on 3/4 volume to match the same volume. This would appear to be at odds with the wattage rating supplied by the manufacturers, and just the sort of thing which gets audiophiles wanking on about 'proper' watts and high current.
Now that they were set up to play at the same I could hear the difference, and confirm that these speakers just demand a lot of juice before they sound really good. To my surprise the new CA sounded nicer, fuller and all round better. Within 10 minutes I had decided that I would never go back to a full sound system and then the next two nights playing records of different styles and genres as if hearing them for the first time. All doubts that a hifi system could play reggae properly without my beloved 18" woofers were firmly put to bed as the house resonated with deep, rich bass, and vocals have never sounded so sweet.
A great start to the experiment, hope it doesn't get too addictive. Next up I'm trying to get hold of some TDL RTL 3's, and possibly some Celestion Ditton 44's.
The speakers are the classic Kef 105 / 2s.
They're a lovely design, pretty big for hifi speakers, carry 12" woofers and are rated up to 200 watts.
I didn't bother attaching my old NAD 3020 as it would be a bit small. My valve amp and 1000W PA amp are both slightly damaged at the moment so neither was able to drive them very well. I then set them up with the amp teuchter used for them, the classic 1980's Audiolab 8000A.
From the first they were really impressive. Having listened to a 2000 watt PA rig for 20 years it was great to hear detailed sound which wasn't just pure brute air shifting power. Had a real treat running through some favourite tunes, and then testing it out on some classic jungle etc, enjoying a depth of sound I haven't been used to in decades.
The amp is rated at 60 watts per channel but in the usual audiophile gumph it's described as a big 60W with the necessary high current required to run these speakers. Good though it sounded I was keen to hear what another 25 years of advances in modern amplifier technology might sound like. I eventually plumped for the Cambridge Audio Azur 651, at the bigger end of hifi power ratings with 75 watts per channel, and including extra features like USB and jack inputs to play from laptops, phones, tablets, etc
When I first wired it up I wasn't sure at all, it didn't seem to be very loud or clear and I was struggling to see any improvement on the old Audiolab. The instructions demanded that it be run in for 160 hours continuously before it would sound at its best. I decided that was almost certainly bollocks.
I set up one amp on one speaker and the other on the second speaker for a proper comparison test, both set on direct to ignore the treble/bass controls. The Audiolab had to be on half volume to get the Kefs sounding good. The CA had to be on 3/4 volume to match the same volume. This would appear to be at odds with the wattage rating supplied by the manufacturers, and just the sort of thing which gets audiophiles wanking on about 'proper' watts and high current.
Now that they were set up to play at the same I could hear the difference, and confirm that these speakers just demand a lot of juice before they sound really good. To my surprise the new CA sounded nicer, fuller and all round better. Within 10 minutes I had decided that I would never go back to a full sound system and then the next two nights playing records of different styles and genres as if hearing them for the first time. All doubts that a hifi system could play reggae properly without my beloved 18" woofers were firmly put to bed as the house resonated with deep, rich bass, and vocals have never sounded so sweet.
A great start to the experiment, hope it doesn't get too addictive. Next up I'm trying to get hold of some TDL RTL 3's, and possibly some Celestion Ditton 44's.
Last edited:
ringo
Macaroni cheese controller
Experiment #2 - Bought some mint 1996 TDL RTL 3's.
Hard to compare with the lovely Kefs at first as they sound quite different. I connected one each up to the amp and played a selection of my favourite records, chucking the balance from left to right to contrast their sound on the same tunes. The Kefs are much more of a reference speaker, with a beautiful, full, natural sound. The TDLs are quite in your face and immediate. I'm really in danger of sounding like a What HiFi review here, but there doesn't seem much option but to use some of the vocabulary already in place to describe speakers
The TDL's also sound fantastic at low volume and right up close, much less long throw than the Kefs or my old pair of 600 watt Fane Collossus bins, crucial to my smaller music room.
Fattest bass I've ever heard from a hifi speaker. They don't have quite the finesse and sound staging/presence (whatever you call it when you feel like you're in the middle of the music) of the Kef 105s on classical and other styles of music. On reggae though, and that's the only thing that counts to me, they come into their own. The bass is incredibly deep, warm and heavy, the tops crisp as a biscuit. Love them, I think they're staying.
Until I see some cheap Celestion Ditton 44/66's
Never knew scaling down from the sound system would be so much fun
Hard to compare with the lovely Kefs at first as they sound quite different. I connected one each up to the amp and played a selection of my favourite records, chucking the balance from left to right to contrast their sound on the same tunes. The Kefs are much more of a reference speaker, with a beautiful, full, natural sound. The TDLs are quite in your face and immediate. I'm really in danger of sounding like a What HiFi review here, but there doesn't seem much option but to use some of the vocabulary already in place to describe speakers
The TDL's also sound fantastic at low volume and right up close, much less long throw than the Kefs or my old pair of 600 watt Fane Collossus bins, crucial to my smaller music room.
Fattest bass I've ever heard from a hifi speaker. They don't have quite the finesse and sound staging/presence (whatever you call it when you feel like you're in the middle of the music) of the Kef 105s on classical and other styles of music. On reggae though, and that's the only thing that counts to me, they come into their own. The bass is incredibly deep, warm and heavy, the tops crisp as a biscuit. Love them, I think they're staying.
Until I see some cheap Celestion Ditton 44/66's
Never knew scaling down from the sound system would be so much fun
