Rotherham child rape gangs: At least 1400 victims

[littlebabyjesus]

we are dealing with the “political unconscious” of the Pakistani Muslim youth – not with chaotic violence, but with a ritualised violence with precise ideological contours: a youth group that experiences itself as marginalised and subordinated taking revenge on vulnerable women of the predominant group.

I don't think he's bothered familiarising himself with the facts before forming his opinion, tbh. Not much better than The Economist.

 

[Citizen66]

Isn't it brilliant that the best way to counter the arguments of the right is to use the arguments of the right? You don't see the edl out on the streets when the one of their own members are caught with their hands down a twelve year old's knickers. You don't hear a peep out of Zizek either.

Fuck off Zizek.

 

[Lurdan]

I don't think he's bothered familiarising himself with the facts before forming his opinion, tbh.

That's a shocking thing to allege. Familiarize himself with the facts ?

In attributing to Noam Chomsky the statement that Obama is a white guy who took some sun-tanning sessions, I repeated an untrue claim which appeared in Slovene media, so I can only offer my unreserved and unconditional apology.

I would like to add that, even if the statement I falsely attributed to Chomsky were to be truly made by him, I would not consider it a patronizingly racist slur, but a fully admissible characterization in our political and ideological struggle. There are African-American intellectuals who allow themselves to be fully co-opted into the white-liberal academic establishment, and they are loved by the establishment precisely because they seem "one of us," white with a darkened skin.

This is why, I think, the statement I falsely attributed to Chomsky does NOT amount to the same as Silvio Berlusconi’s misleadingly similar characterization of Obama as beautiful and well tanned: Berlusconi’s remark dismissed Obama’s blackness as an endearing eccentricity, thus obliterating the historical meaning of the fact that an African-American was elected President, while the remark I falsely attributed to Chomsky, if accurate, would point towards the ambiguous way Obama’s blackness can be instrumentalized to obfuscate our crucial political and economic struggles.

http://www.versobooks.com/blogs/136...ns-a-response-to-noam-chomsky-by-slavoj-zizek

 

[Lurdan]

Panorama: Stolen Childhoods: The Grooming Scandal on 1 September on BBC One at 20.30 BST

Interesting accompanying interview with the researcher who's 2002 report was blocked

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-29012571

The researcher, who does not want to be named, told BBC Panorama the draft of her final report was sent to the Home Office and Rotherham Council on a Friday.

That weekend, someone visited the offices of a youth organisation where she had been based, without permission.

She said there had not been a break-in, but: "They'd gained access to the office and taken my data, so out of the number of filing cabinets there was one drawer emptied and it was emptied of my data.

"It had to be an employee of the council."

 

[Sprocket.]

Doncaster children's services just came out of special measures three weeks ago. Due to the deaths of a number of children whilst in the care or monitoring by the service Michael Gove put the government in charge and they seconded a team from child protection in from Rotherham council due to their good record in these kind of crisis.
Some of the seconded staff are now under investigation following the report being published. I will keep an ear to the ground re developments.

 

[William of Walworth]

Fuck off Zizek.

Absolutely. There's absolutely no-one, anywhere, at any time, who can recycle the 'political correctness' cliche who isn't automatically and immediately proving themselves to be an absolute twazzock**

**(Unless they're pisstaking -- which Zizek clearly isn't).

" 'Political correctness', my arse!" (R, TM)

 

[Blagsta]

Panorama: Stolen Childhoods: The Grooming Scandal on 1 September on BBC One at 20.30 BST

Interesting accompanying interview with the researcher who's 2002 report was blocked

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-29012571

What stood out from the Panorama programme for me, was the obvious collusion between the police, the council and the abusers...and the lack of follow up of this from the makers of Panorama. Scandalous.

 

[Fingers]

Isn't it brilliant that the best way to counter the arguments of the right is to use the arguments of the right? You don't see the edl out on the streets when the one of their own members are caught with their hands down a twelve year old's knickers. You don't hear a peep out of Zizek either.

Fuck off Zizek.

In a few weeks you will be reading about a grooming trial equally as horrific as this, involving an EDL member which currently has reporting restrictions on it as he is facing many more charges. I suspect they will not be camping outside the cop shop for that one.

 

[Citizen66]

In a few weeks you will be reading about a grooming trial equally as horrific as this, involving an EDL member which currently has reporting restrictions on it as he is facing many more charges. I suspect they will not be camping outside the cop shop for that one.

Or demanding 'answers from the community'. Given that community is their own.

eg Zizek and others: the point of the 'politically correct' argument.

Yes there's a culture of rape on young girls emerging from Pakistani communities. They obviously covered it all up like Catholic congregations did. Twats.

 

[Citizen66]

It's like if you're in a white child sex ring it's highly secretive. But if you're in a Pakistani one you go home and tell your mam and aunties about it in order for them to tell the neighbours so the community can cover it up for you.

 

[belboid]

So does anyone have more info on the "Risky Business raid" alleged by the Times?

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...ief-faces-probe-on-grooming-scandal-1-6812171

Risky Business were some sort of youth outreach programme mentioned in the Jay report as about the only organisation who were credible to the girls who were being abused, about the only one taking the cases seriously and apparently the source for a lot of the stuff in Dr Heal's report.

The Times seems to be the source for claims that they were raided and had files taken, but the detail seems awfully sketchy. Anyone know more about this aspect?

I know some of those who set up Risky Business, back in the day. As the report mentions, they were a group who had the respect of (some of) the girls in question, and knew a hell of a lot about what was going on. They reported frequently on the dangers the girtls faced, and specifically about one particular taxi company. They were all but ignored, while they did keep getting funded, they were also being made to change their ways of working, so that statutory agencies were more directly involved. unsurprisingly, once that happened, the girls became rather less involved with the group.

I havent heard anything specific about a raid, but I'll try n find out

 

[Lurdan]

Longer BBC interview with the researcher who's 2002 report was suppressed on this mornings Today programme. Clip here -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p025wpl7
her interview starts at about 2m30s following an interview with a former taxi driver describing the culture among some drivers in Bradford in the 1980s.

It includes this about Social Services (about 3m40s).

To a degree there was a response, insofar as quite often the girl’s were referred and a referral was accepted and actioned, and there was an assessment. Sometimes the girls were being removed into care. But the vast majority, the professional response was extremely poor, so you would have references to abusers being boyfriends, or ‘sweethearts’ I think cropped up quite a bit.

And one of the cases that I dealt with which was a 14 year old girl, pregnant for the second time, and the Social Worker actively invited this man to her ante-natal appointments as if this was some kind of a routine relationship. This was a guy that was 10 years older, with a history of violent crime. Allegations that he was involved extensively in the sexual exploitation of children in Rotherham. But also married, with children of his own, and a pregnant wife at the time. So that gives you an example of the level of professional incompetence that we were encountering.

It doesn't cover the same ground as the interview with her in last nights Panorama which referred to the circumstances in which immediately after the draft report was handed to the Council someone with keys (it is suggested a Council employee) entered the Risky Business offices and removed her research materials. I assume that is what has been described as a 'raid'.

Applying a 'targeted' and 'forensic' focus to the most important issue (reputational damage) Labour suspend four party members pending an investigation, including Jahangir Akhtar and resigned Council leader Roger Stone, and place various local functions under NEC supervision.
http://news.sky.com/story/1328693/rotherham-abuse-labour-suspends-members

South Yorkshire Police announce (yet another) independent investigation
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-09-02/police-launch-independent-review-into-rotherham-failings/

“A fully independent and impartial investigation is required to ensure that people have confidence that organisations or any individuals will be investigated fairly, rigorously and with complete impartiality," chief constable David Crompton said.

“The investigation will properly and independently examine the role of both the police and council during the period identified and address any wrongdoings or failings, which will allow the appropriate action to be taken."

"fully independent" "complete impartiality" "properly and independently examine". Surely he's not implying that some other report criticizing the police might turn out not to have fully met these criteria, once the facts have been 'fairly' and 'rigorously' considered - by another Police Force ?

 

[Libertad]

Call You and Yours (Radio4) at 12.15 is to address the subject.

Over a period of sixteen years some 1,400 girls were sexually abused by men in Rotherham - yet social workers, councillors and the police failed to act quickly to stop it. Call You and Yours asks what went wrong and what needs to be done to fix the child protection system.

 

[Libertad]

Programme available to listen again:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04fz507

 

[8115]

BBC Asian Network interview with a man who had worked in a taxi office in Bradford at the time this was happening, it's sad but interesting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p025xlps

 

[Betsy]

A meeting of Rotherham Council today...."Expect a lot of blame shifting" said the BBC reporter on 5 Live.

 

[Lurdan]

It was a Rotherham Council Cabinet meeting to discuss and accept the Jay Report and it's recommendations. There was a live webcast which I caught the last two thirds of. In what I saw the tone of the meeting was sombre. Outside attendance didn't seem very large. The meeting apparently started with questions from the public which I missed but there's some small clips from that part of the meeting on the BBC website under the headline

Locals express anger at abuse scandal at Rotherham council meeting
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29045180

I can only say that in terms of London (and particularly Tower Hamlets) Council meetings I've been at, if that is what passes for an angry meeting in Rotherham then anger must be a ridiculously expensive luxury up there. Perhaps that is another part of the background problem.

There was then a lengthy statement by CE Martin Kimber which I missed the start of. The only point of interest I noted was that on the basis of information in the Jay Report 'discussions' were taking place with one current Council officer about their actions and what they knew, and that information which had come to light since had triggered 'discussions' with a second.

Questions from Cabinet Members followed eliciting reassurances that systems and procedures were now more robust and a lot of work was being done etc. etc. The only interesting points were a statement by the relevant Cabinet member that events had had an impact on some 'inward investment' opportunities, and some pointed questions from a non-Cabinet member of the scrutiny board about the extent to which the efforts to sort things out were currently subject to scrutiny.

The report and recommendations were accepted with some minor additions, a couple addressed at further strengthening scrutiny arrangements and a couple seeking reassurances from other agencies that historic cases were being looked at. The only interesting addition was one of the latter aimed at the CPS. (The point was made - correctly I think - that last year Shaun Wright had instituted a number of enquiries, one of them being into the role of the CPS in these events but that nothing further had been heard about that).

Mindful of the level of outside scrutiny 'constitutional regulations' were set aside to allow opposition Councillors to ask some questions. One took up the issue of currently serving Councillors who had attended the 2006 seminar where the scale of issues had been set out. (This had come up earlier as can be seen in the BBC clip). Although attendees at the seminar had been told to keep what was said confidential in order not to 'prejudice current investigations' it was pointed out that was 9 years ago. Five currently serving Councillors were named. Two of these Councillors responded but there wasn't much either could say.

 

[belboid]

So does anyone have more info on the "Risky Business raid" alleged by the Times?

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...ief-faces-probe-on-grooming-scandal-1-6812171

Risky Business were some sort of youth outreach programme mentioned in the Jay report as about the only organisation who were credible to the girls who were being abused, about the only one taking the cases seriously and apparently the source for a lot of the stuff in Dr Heal's report.

The Times seems to be the source for claims that they were raided and had files taken, but the detail seems awfully sketchy. Anyone know more about this aspect?

according to one of the workers there at the time:

They came in on the Monday morning to find their office had been broken into, and one filing cabinet ransacked. No sign of break-in in the wider building, just their office. And just that filing cabinet. The workers' views on the problems were dismissed because they were 'hysterical youth workers' (mostly women, natch) who didn't really know what they were talking about.

 

[Lurdan]

'No-one told me' former South Yorkshire Chief Constable Mike Hedges (1998-2004) tells the Today programm.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-29041925

(...) I feel most uncomfortable and disappointed that we didn't pick up these signals and run with them.

 

[bluescreen]

Lurdan at #1198 quoted Nazir Afzal in the MoS.

Nafzal also said this:

My work saw me go up against not only the offenders, but those who tried to intimidate me for bringing abusers before the courts. They said I had given racists a stick with which to beat minorities – I said our communities should be carrying their own sticks.

Then Simon Danczuk says this:

Simon Danczuk, who helped expose a pattern of grooming of white teenage girls by men from a Pakistani background in Rochdale, where he is the Labour MP, said a culture of intimidation and closing of ranks within parts of the Asian community had mired politics in towns and cities across northern England for years.

He said Asian councillors were under constant pressure from the community to “conform” and other politicians acquiesced for fear of being accused of racism, failing to face up to evidence of abuse as a result.

“There are cultural issues around the way politics are done in the Asian community which have to change,” he said.

He said he had personally come under pressure from Asian councillors and members of the community for speaking out as well as being warned by prominent figures in his party.

He pointed to the way in which two Muslim councillors in Rochdale had provided character references for one of the perpetrators of the Rochdale abuse.

“Politics are done differently in Pakistan, it is a cultural difference we have imported some of that into some of these northern towns and cities and I think we have to face up to the fact that we can’t carry on doing politics like that.

“It is not healthy and the direct consequence is that we end up having to tackle issues like has been faced in Rotherham.”

He described it as “a looking after your own” within the Asian community which other politicians had accepted.

“Pressure was applied, that’s what will have happened to Denis MacShane and he went along with it,” he said, referring to comments last week from the disgraced former MP for Rotherham who said he had shied away from the issue because he was a “Guardian reading liberal leftie”.

But Mr Danczuk added: “Being an Asian councillor isn’t an easy job compared to being a white councillor, the pressure on some of the Asian councillors is immense.

“They will get phone up at midnight, the amount of casework compared to white areas is completely different, the community almost owns you – you are expected to deliver or they will vote you out.”

He added: “It is a mild form of intimidation – if you don’t conform you will be voted out.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...m-Pakistan-fuelled-sex-abuse-cover-up-MP.html

Admittedly both articles are in right wing papers, but then who else would be willing to publish such allegations? The thing that bothers me most is Afzal's use of the word 'intimidate'. As a lawyer he is unlikely to use the word lightly.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Corrupt councillors are the real victims in all this.

The hand-washing is extraordinary. They'll be red-raw by the end if it.

 

[Belushi]

Constituents threatening to vote out an elected official is intimidation?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Constituents threatening to vote out an elected official is intimidation?

A grave threat to democracy.

 

[bluescreen]

Yeah, agreed, the voting out isn't so bad! But I'd like to know what sort of intimidation the Crown Prosecutor was subjected to.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

according to one of the workers there at the time:

They came in on the Monday morning to find their office had been broken into, and one filing cabinet ransacked. No sign of break-in in the wider building, just their office. And just that filing cabinet. The workers' views on the problems were dismissed because they were 'hysterical youth workers' (mostly women, natch) who didn't really know what they were talking about.

Thanks.

 

[treelover]

It was a Rotherham Council Cabinet meeting to discuss and accept the Jay Report and it's recommendations. There was a live webcast which I caught the last two thirds of. In what I saw the tone of the meeting was sombre. Outside attendance didn't seem very large. The meeting apparently started with questions from the public which I missed but there's some small clips from that part of the meeting on the BBC website under the headline.

I can only say that in terms of London (and particularly Tower Hamlets) Council meetings I've been at, if that is what passes for an angry meeting in Rotherham then anger must be a ridiculously expensive luxury up there. Perhaps that is another part of the background problem.

Locals express anger at abuse scandal at Rotherham council meeting

You clearly haven't been listening to local media, most people didn't know about the meeting, phone in shows like Toby Fosters on Radio Sheffield have heard truly visceral anger on a mass scale towards the perpetrators, the police, and the council, and yes, from some, the wider british pakistani community who they accuse of 'shielding', etc, Foster has made a point of identifying the ethnic identity of the perpetrators in this specific case and his view, the possible culpability of the wider community, he is now very popular in the area, make of that what you will.

 

[Lurdan]

You clearly haven't been listening to local media, most people didn't know about the meeting (...)

My opinion of the meeting is obviously no more than that (and clearly I have no idea how Rotherham meetings are normally conducted) however the webcast is now up on the Rotherham Council site so you can form your own view.
http://www.rotherham.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/145578

 

[dylanredefined]

In a few weeks you will be reading about a grooming trial equally as horrific as this, involving an EDL member which currently has reporting restrictions on it as he is facing many more charges. I suspect they will not be camping outside the cop shop for that one.

I'd be surprised if it is as worse than Rotherman unless every cop and social worker thinks it is okay for children to be abused.
I'm sure he is an evil shit ,but, only one guy.

 

[Lurdan]

On Tuesday, after being reminded that there had been no prosecutions for Child Sexual Exploitation in South Yorkshire between 2010 and 2013, David Crompton, South Yorkshire Chief Constable told the Home Affairs Committee that since the start of 2013 there had been 104 convictions and 40 people were currently on bail. He added that in Rotherham there were now two "very significant" multiple victim and multiple offender investigations and seven other investigations all of them historic and relating to the period covered by the Jay report.

Yesterday he was obliged to correct himself about the figures he had given - in fact there have only been 37 convictions (and it's unclear what these were for).
http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/update/2014-09-03/chief-constable-gave-incorrect-information-vaz/

Asked if any of the Police Officers whose decisions not to act, or who had arrested victims or their parents rather than abusers, had been identified or were subject to investigation there was a long pause before he confirmed he was unable to answer. His decision to involve another Police Force as well the IPCC in the independent investigation he's commissioning was questioned.

During the hearing Keith Vaz stated there would be a specific Home Affairs Committee hearing about Rotherham next Tuesday, involving Crompton again, Shaun Wright, Joyce Thacker (Rotherham Strategic Head of Children's Services), Alexis Jay and possibly others. (It's not yet listed on the Committee calendar).

The recording of last Tuesday's session is now on the BBC website
http://www.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/house-of-commons-29014321

Crompton is questioned about Rotherham between 1h33m40s and 1h53m50s. (From 39m30s on he gives his version of Cliffgate).

 

[Lurdan]

Another very interesting interview with Nazir Afzal of the CPS in the Guardian. It covers a lot of ground (although not the question of how in some cases it took the CPS months before deciding not to proceed with cases) and the whole thing is well worth reading.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/...no-religious-basis-for-the-abuse-in-rotherham

These bits struck me particularly :

Where there is involvement of Asian men or men of Pakistani origin, he points to a practical, rather than cultural explanation – the fact that in the areas where grooming scandals have been uncovered, those controlling the night-time economy, people working through the night in takeaways and driving minicabs, are predominantly Asian men. He argues that evidence suggests that victims were not targeted because they were white but because they were vulnerable and their vulnerability caused them to seek out “warmth, love, transport, mind-numbing substances, drugs, alcohol and food”.

“Who offers those things? In certain parts of the country, the place they go is the night-time economy,” he says. “Where you have Pakistani men, Asian men, disproportionately employed in the night-time economy, they are going to be more involved in this kind of activity than perhaps white men are. We keep hearing people talk about a problem in the north and the Midlands, and that’s where you have lots of minicab drivers, lots of people employed in takeaways, from that kind of background. If you have a preponderance of Asians working in those fields, some of that number, a very small number of those people, will take advantage of the girls who have moved into their sphere of influence. It’s tragic.”