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Rojava Kurdistan, Murray Bookchin and regional Kurdish politics

butchersapron said:
Biehl (Bookchin's partner until he died) goes full apo. She declared herself a classic social democrat a few years back - drawing out what was always latent in Libertarian municipalism, but what's going in rojava has little to with social decmocracy.
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From that article:

"With all that going on, we didn’t read much about Öcalan’s defense at his trial, on charges of treason: we didn’t know, for example, that he was undergoing a transformation similar to the one Bookchin had undergone half a century earlier, that he was rejecting Marxism-Leninism in favor of democracy."

FFS. Ocalan is in a Turkish prison. He'll say anything from in there. No credibility can be attached to such statements.

Rather, we should look at what he did when he was at liberty to do what he wanted to do. What he wanted to do was declare a futile, endless war against a conscript army, with hopelessly inadequate popular support, which forced him to rely on bombing civilians to further his ends.

Now we're asked to believe he's changed. Why take the chance?
 
UNBAN PKK! FREEDOM FOR OCALAN! TwitterStorm Friday.6.Feb. 6pm Brussels. 5pm London New York 12 noon.

B9KFYL1CcAANtSC.jpg
 
IC3D said:
phildwyer Fairly sure they're police the tactics are eerily familiar.
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I suppose they must be, since they have armored cars.

That means they've taken off their uniforms to avoid identification--hence also the ski-masks. That's a very bad sign, meaning they're planning to do bad things.
 
One particularly nasty habit of the PKK that doesn't receive much publicity in the West is its use of child soldiers, often recruited by force. There have been a number of disturbing stories about this in Turkey recently, but this one is particularly tragic. Thirteen and fourteen year-old girls. And now Turkey's going to prosecute them:

"A lawsuit was filed against the girls on charges of PKK membership and the prosecutor said in his indictment that the children admitted to the charges and although there was no evidence that they engaged in acts of terror, they were "included in the hierarchy of the organization." The court will now decide whether the children are eligible for prosecution as they are below the legal age of criminal responsibility. In 2014, a sit-in was held where dozens of families protested their children's "forced" recruitment by the PKK."

http://www.dailysabah.com/nation/2015/02/04/pkks-child-recruits-face-prison
 
In 2007, the government of Turkish Prime MinisterRecep Tayyip Erdoğan seized the newspaper, citing a legal document that had not been disclosed to authorities when Sabah was sold in 2001. Some of the newspaper's staffers were fired, and the paper was then sold to the Turkuaz Media Group of the company Çalık Holding, whose CEO, Ahmet Çalık, was Erdoğan's son-in-law. According to Asli Aydintasbas, who was Sabah's Ankara bureau chief until the takeover, from then on the newspaper took on "an unwavering pro-government line
 
DotCommunist said:
not that I'm suggesting bias in what appears to be the turkish Times
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Newspapers in Turkey make no pretense at objectivity. The Daily Sabah is an AKP paper. You have to be careful what neighborhoods you're seen reading it in, as with any paper. That doesn't mean it will print outright lies though, and this story has been widely reported across the political spectrum.
 
Patteran said:
I think this piece is connected, parallel - an alternative analysis, that has been quoted previously, untranslated, on Il Lato Cattivo's Facebook.

https://thesinisterquarter.wordpress.com/2015/02/16/kurdistan/
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Missed this earlier - G.D = Giles Dauve, a writer who can get things brilliantly right but also laughably wrong. In that piece he's saying exactly what i expected him to and exactly what he's said about everything for the last 40 years - it's always good to see the questions posed in such a coherent way.
 
Spanky Longhorn said:
Australian Labor leader joins fight in Rojava

http://www.theage.com.au/national/s...nst-islamic-state-report-20150125-12xu6g.html

sorry if this has been posted already...
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Not because of political commitment but cherchez la femme. The bloke's a nutter if his former colleagues are to be believed:

"Who knows what has caused him to take these actions or how his interactions with those who practice Islam has affected him?” asked Cranitch. “My guess is that whatever it may be has has become too much for him and he has simply gone mad. How else can you explain it?”

“I don’t know what he hopes to achieve and it’s very, very sad that he has left his kids and the rest of his family in the situation in which they now find themselves. I don’t know how he can live with himself”.

http://itsnotnormalisit.com/tag/matthew-gardiner/
 
butchersapron said:
New interview with Murray Bookchin's daughter that touches on the kurdish stuff

Bookchin: living legacy of an American revolutionary
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Wrong thread, I know, but this caught my eye...
I think it’s hard not to be excited by political events in Greece and Spain, where new, more democratic parties are coming to power. But Murray would have warned that these kinds of national parties are almost always forced to compromise their ideals to the point where they no longer represent significant change. He warned about that when the German Greens came to power in the early 1980s and he was proven correct. They started out calling themselves a “non-party party” but they ended up in a coalition with the conservative CDU (the Christian Democratic Union) in order to maintain power.

That is why he differentiates between “statecraft,” his name for traditional representative government, which never really invests power with the citizenry, and “politics,” a term that he wants to reclaim to signify directly democratic self-management by popular assemblies that are networked together to make decisions that affect larger regions. So that’s one reason why we’re happy about the publication of this book at this time; it directly speaks to the impulses of millions of people around the world who are demanding direct democracy instead of representative democracy, and helps point a way to achieving that goal.
Click to expand...
 
This is a great answer....

What do you view as Murray’s most important teaching?

The necessity of dialectical thinking – that to really know a thing you have to see it in its full development, not statically, not as it “is” but rather as it has the potential to “become.” That hierarchy and capitalism weren’t inevitable developments and that a legacy of freedom has always existed alongside the legacy of domination. That it’s our job as human beings capable of rational thought to try to develop an ethics and social structure that maximizes freedom.
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:thumbs:
 
Quite detailed look at various aspects of PKK evolution from the fourth internationalists:

Stalinist caterpillar into libertarian butterfly? - The evolving ideology of the PKK

The stated goal of the Rojava project is to build a liberated, democratic society with equal rights for women in which different ethnic and religious groups can live together. The ideological inspiration for this project is the thought of the Turkish Kurdish PKK and its leader Abdullah Öcalan. In the early to mid nineties the PKK led a fierce guerrilla-war against the Turkish state and it remains a significant force in itself and through its influence over other organizations. Initially, the PKK followed a ’marxist-leninist’ ideology. However, the movement underwent deep ideological changes, especially after Öcalan’s capture in 1999. The PYD denies any organizational links with the PKK but it was set up by Syrian PKK-members and claims to follow the same ideology as the current PKK.

This article examines this ideology and its changes in several key aspects. The first two parts discuss the early strategic orientation of the PKK and its similarity to other national liberation movements of the time. Part three discusses the idea of ’creating a new man’, an idea that became central to the PKK’s conception of the future society they struggled for. This idea was a distinctive characteristic of the PKK. It is not unusual for activists in this movement to describe their political convictions as ’the ideology of Öcalan’ and part four discusses the role of Abdullah Öcalan as the leader and ideologue of the movement. Part five discusses another distinguishing characteristic of the PKK: the role that it sees for women and women’s liberation in social change. Part six and seven deal with the changing ideas of the PKK about the future society: its vision of a ’democratic civilization and its changing conception of ’socialism’.

The goal is not to provide a history of the PKK but parts of its history will be discussed to situate its ideological evolution. The focus is on the movement’s ’official’ ideology as written down in statements of Öcalan and documents of the PKK. How this ideology is translated into actual politics on the ground and how grass-roots activists interpret it are questions that are beyond the reach of the article. The influence of Abdullah Öcalan in the PKK can hardly be overestimated. As one former member put it; ’the PKK is in a certain sense identical with its founder, Abdullah Öcalan’. [1] Because of his dominant role as both the leader and ideologue of the movement, the article will give extensive attention to statements and writings of Öcalan himself.
 
...and a look at Rojava as part of a year-long Stateless Democracy research project conducted by New World Summit and New World Academy (arty stuff and people really). 2nd half very interesting, first half the normal intro sort of stuff but from a slightly diff perspective:

To Make a World, Part III: Stateless Democracy

This is why the pillars of the autonomous cantons of Rojava enforce secular politics, gender equality through quotas, and the reduction of centralized structures to a minimum. These pillars are not derived from the model of the nation-state; they are the pillars of a new political imaginary that has yet to be developed in full, a political imaginary aimed at transforming our very practice and understanding of power through a history that the Star Academy is writing as we speak: “Power is everywhere, but the state is not everywhere. Power can operate in different ways.”45 Stateless democracy is based on the profound processes behind the Kurdish movement’s decades of struggle and sacrifice, with women in front. This struggle has not only made it possible for power to operate in different ways; it has made difference itself possible.
Click to expand...

When I attend the people’s council of Qamishli, candidates are presenting themselves to obtain the position of new co-chair. Each of the city’s neighborhood councils and cooperatives have brought their candidates forward. A long strip of yellow-red-green cloth serves as backdrop upon which is written: “Everything for a Free Life and the Foundation of a Democratic Society.” In the front, the candidates enter and leave the stage, next to two tables with the elected selection committee keeping track of procedure. To the right of the stage is a photo of Öcalan on a modest, draped pedestal. But most importantly—as I realize while observing the packed space—the people’s council is a theater. It is a theater of the stateless, where the Rojava Revolution is condensed down to its ultimate performance: the practice of self-governance, of self-determination, performing life without approval. In the face of our global crises in politics, the economy, and ecology, Rojava’s stateless democracy proposes a political horizon that concerns us all.
Click to expand...

Two previous pieces are:

To Make a World, Part II: The Art of Creating a State

Covers Mali and the MNLA

To Make a World, Part I: Ultranationalism and the Art of the Stateless State

Seems to not really cover it's title at all.
 
butchersapron said:
Quite detailed look at various aspects of PKK evolution from the fourth internationalists:

Stalinist caterpillar into libertarian butterfly? - The evolving ideology of the PKK

The stated goal of the Rojava project is to build a liberated, democratic society with equal rights for women in which different ethnic and religious groups can live together. The ideological inspiration for this project is the thought of the Turkish Kurdish PKK and its leader Abdullah Öcalan. In the early to mid nineties the PKK led a fierce guerrilla-war against the Turkish state and it remains a significant force in itself and through its influence over other organizations. Initially, the PKK followed a ’marxist-leninist’ ideology. However, the movement underwent deep ideological changes, especially after Öcalan’s capture in 1999. The PYD denies any organizational links with the PKK but it was set up by Syrian PKK-members and claims to follow the same ideology as the current PKK.

This article examines this ideology and its changes in several key aspects. The first two parts discuss the early strategic orientation of the PKK and its similarity to other national liberation movements of the time. Part three discusses the idea of ’creating a new man’, an idea that became central to the PKK’s conception of the future society they struggled for. This idea was a distinctive characteristic of the PKK. It is not unusual for activists in this movement to describe their political convictions as ’the ideology of Öcalan’ and part four discusses the role of Abdullah Öcalan as the leader and ideologue of the movement. Part five discusses another distinguishing characteristic of the PKK: the role that it sees for women and women’s liberation in social change. Part six and seven deal with the changing ideas of the PKK about the future society: its vision of a ’democratic civilization and its changing conception of ’socialism’.

The goal is not to provide a history of the PKK but parts of its history will be discussed to situate its ideological evolution. The focus is on the movement’s ’official’ ideology as written down in statements of Öcalan and documents of the PKK. How this ideology is translated into actual politics on the ground and how grass-roots activists interpret it are questions that are beyond the reach of the article. The influence of Abdullah Öcalan in the PKK can hardly be overestimated. As one former member put it; ’the PKK is in a certain sense identical with its founder, Abdullah Öcalan’. [1] Because of his dominant role as both the leader and ideologue of the movement, the article will give extensive attention to statements and writings of Öcalan himself.
Click to expand...

From the above:

"Kalkan touches upon the most distinctive element of PKK-thought of the eighties and nineties; its ambition to create a ’New Man’, characterized by a certain personality. The theme of the ’personality’ of the Kurds appeared already in Öcalan’s texts in the early eighties and remains a prominent part of it. According to Öcalan there is a metaphysical ’Kurdish mentality’, a certain ’composition of the Kurdish psyche’. Öcalan still claims ’many of the qualities and characteristics attributed to the Kurds and their society today can already be seen in the Neolithic communities of the cis-Caucasus mountain ranges - the area we call Kurdistan’....
Through criticism and self-criticism and hard work, PKK-members were expected to remake themselves, to free themselves of their views and attitudes that they had learned in their ’old life’ and remould themselves into ’new men’. The goal, as described in the party journal Serxwebûn: ’The new man does not drink, does not gamble, never thinks of his own personal pleasure or comfort, and there is nothing feminine about him, those who (in the past) indulged in such activities will, sharp as knife, cut out all these habits as soon as he or she is among new men. The new man’s philosophy and morality, the way he sits and stands, his style, ego, attitude and reactions [tepki] are his and his alone. The basis of all these things is his love for the revolution, freedom, country, and socialism, a love that is as solid as a rock. Applying scientific socialism to the reality of our country creates the new man’. [14]
"

Ocalan's a nutter. His continued leadership utterly discredits the PKK as a negotiating partner.
 
phildwyer said:
From the above:

"Kalkan touches upon the most distinctive element of PKK-thought of the eighties and nineties; its ambition to create a ’New Man’, characterized by a certain personality. The theme of the ’personality’ of the Kurds appeared already in Öcalan’s texts in the early eighties and remains a prominent part of it. According to Öcalan there is a metaphysical ’Kurdish mentality’, a certain ’composition of the Kurdish psyche’. Öcalan still claims ’many of the qualities and characteristics attributed to the Kurds and their society today can already be seen in the Neolithic communities of the cis-Caucasus mountain ranges - the area we call Kurdistan’....
Through criticism and self-criticism and hard work, PKK-members were expected to remake themselves, to free themselves of their views and attitudes that they had learned in their ’old life’ and remould themselves into ’new men’. The goal, as described in the party journal Serxwebûn: ’The new man does not drink, does not gamble, never thinks of his own personal pleasure or comfort, and there is nothing feminine about him, those who (in the past) indulged in such activities will, sharp as knife, cut out all these habits as soon as he or she is among new men. The new man’s philosophy and morality, the way he sits and stands, his style, ego, attitude and reactions [tepki] are his and his alone. The basis of all these things is his love for the revolution, freedom, country, and socialism, a love that is as solid as a rock. Applying scientific socialism to the reality of our country creates the new man’. [14]
"

Ocalan's a nutter. His continued leadership utterly discredits the PKK as a negotiating partner.
Click to expand...

So were the soviet biocosmonauts TBF. As was Mao. I'll have to find that passage from Trotsky around '24 where he exalts socialism as some kind of overcoming of the collective goals of religion and the probing of psychology...

Anyway, yeah, nothing new here...

ETA: found it, from Literature and Revolution, ch.8

Granted, he's talking about post-revolutionary society and the context is completely different to öcalan's Chernyshevsky-esque macho aesceticism but the implications are there to tease out.

Man will make it his purpose to master his own feelings, to raise his instincts to the heights of consciousness, to make them transparent, to extend the wires of his will into hidden recesses, and thereby to raise himself to a new plane, to create a higher social biologic type, or, if you please, a superman.

It is difficult to predict the extent of self-government which the man of the future may reach or the heights to which he may carry his technique. Social construction and psycho-physical self-education will become two aspects of one and the same process. All the arts – literature, drama, painting, music and architecture will lend this process beautiful form. More correctly, the shell in which the cultural construction and self-education of Communist man will be enclosed, will develop all the vital elements of contemporary art to the highest point. Man will become immeasurably stronger, wiser and subtler; his body will become more harmonized, his movements more rhythmic, his voice more musical. The forms of life will become dynamically dramatic. The average human type will rise to the heights of an Aristotle, a Goethe, or a Marx. And above this ridge new peaks will rise.
Click to expand...

Also don't forget the Tailorists like Alexei Gastev who quite literally wanted to mechanise people by categorising them into proletarian units such as A, B, C etc... Measuring human emotions with pressure gauges and speedometers
 
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dialectician said:
So were the soviet biocosmonauts TBF. As was Mao. I'll have to find that passage from Trotsky around '24 where he exalts socialism as some kind of overcoming of the collective goals of religion and the probing of psychology...

Anyway, yeah, nothing new here...

ETA: found it, from Literature and Revolution, ch.8

Granted, he's talking about post-revolutionary society and the context is completely different to öcalan's Chernyshevsky-esque macho aesceticism but the implications are there to tease out.



Also don't forget the Tailorists like Alexei Gastev who quite literally wanted to mechanise people by categorising them into proletarian units such as A, B, C etc... Measuring human emotions with pressure gauges and speedometers
Click to expand...

There's not much you can say to that, bar "Leon mate, are you feeling alright?"

If you wanted to be an apologist, I suppose you could say that Lev isn't saying that people will be made into new Aristotles whether they like it or not, but simply that humanity will rise to these new levels, given a new social, socialist, context. But even so. . .
 
Idris2002 said:
There's not much you can say to that, bar "Leon mate, are you feeling alright?"

If you wanted to be an apologist, I suppose you could say that Lev isn't saying that people will be made into new Aristotles whether they like it or not, but simply that humanity will rise to these new levels, given a new social, socialist, context. But even so. . .
Click to expand...

Shame, as he does raise some good points in the abstract about proletkult in that pamphlet.
 
dialectician said:
So were the soviet biocosmonauts TBF. As was Mao. I'll have to find that passage from Trotsky around '24 where he exalts socialism as some kind of overcoming of the collective goals of religion and the probing of psychology...

Anyway, yeah, nothing new here...

ETA: found it, from Literature and Revolution, ch.8

Granted, he's talking about post-revolutionary society and the context is completely different to öcalan's Chernyshevsky-esque macho aesceticism but the implications are there to tease out.



Also don't forget the Tailorists like Alexei Gastev who quite literally wanted to mechanise people by categorising them into proletarian units such as A, B, C etc... Measuring human emotions with pressure gauges and speedometers
Click to expand...

Che Guevara's a big influence too, he used to go on about the "new man" etc...
 
I don't see much difference between any of that and people who say that there won't be as much crime or violence in a post revolutionary "new society" due to less oppression and more equality...
 
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