What I would say, as a rider to that, is that for those of us men who are prepared to challenge our preconceptions, there is an aspect to feminism that can get in the way of that process: there is, undoubtedly, a strong undercurrent of anti-male attitudes within the feminist movement - perhaps best caricatured as the "all men are rapists" trope - which can leave even the most feminist-friendly man feeling attacked and defensive purely on the basis of his gender, and that has certainly impeded my own progress in understanding. It would behove that part of the feminist movement which is interested in getting men onside to have a care about how feminist polemic can feel on the receiving end - particularly by those men who, by virtue of being more sensitive and thoughtful in the first place, are both more likely to be hurt by it, and at the same time are the most likely to come around to the more feminist point of view.
I agree completely with this. I have no buts, just some points of information:
1. I and I think every consistent feminist on these boards are combating precisely the kinds of feminism that is about what is wrong for women and with men. The anti-men, sex negative, transphobic separatist throwbacks to a time where we did need our own spaces. But now, we need to be allowed an equal share of all public spaces and those bigoted cunts are nothing to do with my revolution.
2. Some statements about things like social conditioning can, and really always have to be, universalised. I use 'people' wherever possible and I spot that it is possible, I stress that this is about gender roles, conditioning and expectations, not what genitals you happen to possess, and that class is the over-arching power relation that can protect you from -isms, but those -isms make it less likely that you will have that class status in the first place.
But some people skim posts for key words that match up with whatever it is they disagree with. And using an unqualified 'men' whether carelessly or in appropriate context is red rag to a bull time. Some anti-sexists spent more time telling me off for a careless moment than they do men who are telling me I am lying about what is is like to be a woman. It baffles me, but clearly it is my problem to deal with. Part of which is pointing it out.
3. The all men are rapists thing is a myth listed on snopes. It has been attributed to various feminists over the years by the kind of men who want to go la la la in everyone's ears when women speak out.
4, I am starting to understand some of the hysterical reactions to what seem to me quite innocuous posts. I say "please don't use rape as a metaphor", am informed why the poster thinks it is appropriate, and slightly less polite in response and a third party intervenes to tell me I'd get further if I asked nicely. I am a nutter, I know, but I do have some grip on reality but that kind of thing is a bit of a head fuck.It is because the people I am asking to show some respect have little to no idea what harm a lack of respect does. Why punching up always matters.
And it happens a lot. Less now, for sure. Loads of great people speak out now that this thing has exploded across the boards. And I am sure it is often, even always, with no malicious intent; genuine posting impulses at work. And I know sometimes people skim threads and this software is fucking irritating for fast-moving threads and context is lost. But it gets a bit rich, from my perspective, sometimes.
I don't know if there are any more ways to say it. We always seem to get trapped at MRAs vs Feminazis and the Feminazis always emerge victorious (with kittyP amongst the troops, how could we not
<3), but it is wave after waved of confused men and it does my fucking head in, tbh. I'm always up for an argument, that is not a problem. But wilfull ignorance in the face of substantial harm being done? Deserves a good kicking, IMO.
never forgive 
