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Police told to empty crisps into plastic bags to avoid advertising rival brands at Olympics

Minnie_the_Minx said:
Is that Londoners or the UK? What about council tax?
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It's the whole UK IIRC. A quick calculation of that gives about £3.5bn...so other cash has come from general taxation etc.

Not to mention all the stuff not included in the Olympic budget (such as councils having to move resources due to Olympic obligations, staff time spent on planning etc etc...)
 
Graffiti Raids Across London...

It’s not uncommon for us to be contacted by respected ex-graffiti writers. That said, we certainly weren’t expecting the late night phone calls that we received from some past artists last night, who got in touch to tell us that they had been raided by the police yesterday (17th July). While graffiti writer’s homes being raided by the police is not a rare phenomenon, this series of raids came as quite a shock to many of the artists as most had given up painting illegal graffiti some 15 years ago.
Some of the people who were arrested had stopped painting graffiti without prior permission over a decade ago, and now paint commissioned artwork for corporate clients, while others haven’t touched a spray can at all in many years. For both types of ex-graffiti enthusiast, a knock on the door from the British Transport Police was the last thing they were expecting.
As they were escorted by officers back to the BTP headquaters in Victoria, the retired graffiti artists overheard radio chatter which made it clear to them that raids were being carried out on addresses across the length and breadth of London. Once they arrived at the station, the ex-graffiti writers spotted thirty or more familiar faces from the past – and realised that they weren’t the only ex-graff scene dweller to be arrested. Retired graffiti artists had been pulled in a big way.
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http://www.thelondonvandal.com/2012...n-as-police-sanitise-city-ready-for-olympics/
 
Edie said:
Purenarcotic they don't have the resources and it's not their role to. Watching those programmes it seems they end up doing a lot of social type work as it is, specially with people with mental health problems.

ACAB :D Are you a 16 year old stoner by any chance? :D
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But it is their role. Because one of their primary functions is preventing crime, so they should be involving themselves with youth groups and projects that help to turn people's lives around for the better. Of course these services need to have professionally trained people within them, but I don't see why as part of a copper's shift it couldn't include helping to run a 5 aside footy team for kids in the local community or whatever. We know for a fact these schemes reduce crime because they get kids off the streets, doing something positive, gives them people to talk to etc etc etc.

It's easy to nick somebody and pass the buck of responsibility to already oversubscribed and underfunded services.

And yes, they do end up dealing with a lot of MH problems. Which tells you a lot about the way we treat our vulnerable in society, really, doesn't it.
 
krink said:
what a bunch of cunts, they'll end up pissing off ex and current graffiti people and as an old writer meself, I know the graff writers will see this as a direct challenge and respond accordingly. expect london to get hammerd now.
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My mate Kelso in Manchester a well known G.A. told me that this would probably happen quite a few months ago...me thinks there will be some shenanigans though..
 
purenarcotic said:
But it is their role. Because one of their primary functions is preventing crime, so they should be involving themselves with youth groups and projects that help to turn people's lives around for the better. Of course these services need to have professionally trained people within them, but I don't see why as part of a copper's shift it couldn't include helping to run a 5 aside footy team for kids in the local community or whatever. We know for a fact these schemes reduce crime because they get kids off the streets, doing something positive, gives them people to talk to etc etc etc.

It's easy to nick somebody and pass the buck of responsibility to already oversubscribed and underfunded services.

And yes, they do end up dealing with a lot of MH problems. Which tells you a lot about the way we treat our vulnerable in society, really, doesn't it.
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Plus there are police community liaison groups, so the OB must consider it part of their role even if Edie doesn't.
 
grit said:
It was a genuine question, what groups are actively involved in steering people away from a life of crime?
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Chilren's Centres, pastoral teams in schools, youth groups / projects, mental health / drug / alcohol projects, social services, therapists, mentoring schemes etc etc etc.

All of which are, or have already had, large parts of their funding slashed by our dear coalition.
 
purenarcotic said:
Chilren's Centres, pastoral teams in schools, youth groups / projects, mental health / drug / alcohol projects, social services, therapists, mentoring schemes etc etc etc.

All of which are, or have already had, large parts of their funding slashed by our dear coalition.
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Fair enough, would the view be that police shouldnt be involved at all?
 
grit said:
Fair enough, would the view be that police shouldnt be involved at all?
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Well, as I've said in earlier posts, if they really lived up to their function of preventing crime, they would already be involved in these schemes and projects, because they would want to actively prevent crime.

Of course there is involvement from the OB in these schemes but more in the sense of these services asking for them to deal with somebody, as opposed to a copper coming in to facilitate a discussion on domestic violence or run a sports session.

How much do coppers understand the psychology of what they do? I've had some interesting chats with my mum about riot cops in particular; from a psychoanalytical perspective she finds them a very interesting group, because she wonders what prompts somebody to choose a career like that, a career where let's face it it's pretty violent. Like bailiffs and bouncers, you have to quite like the thrill of the fight. And this can quite easily mean that you say and do things which you know will wrangle and irritate people.

Take kettling for example, psychologically we know it gets peoples' backs up, we know it increases the chances of people hitting out, so why do we still kettle people when we know it actually increases the chances of violence?

One of the first things youth workers learn as part of their training is how their body language, eye contact, tone of voice etc affects the outcome of a situation. Do you think coppers get this type of training? I don't, but I think it's hugely important given their work is people person work.
 
purenarcotic said:
Well, as I've said in earlier posts, if they really lived up to their function of preventing crime, they would already be involved in these schemes and projects, because they would want to actively prevent crime.

Of course there is involvement from the OB in these schemes but more in the sense of these services asking for them to deal with somebody, as opposed to a copper coming in to facilitate a discussion on domestic violence or run a sports session.

How much do coppers understand the psychology of what they do? I've had some interesting chats with my mum about riot cops in particular; from a psychoanalytical perspective she finds them a very interesting group, because she wonders what prompts somebody to choose a career like that, a career where let's face it it's pretty violent. Like bailiffs and bouncers, you have to quite like the thrill of the fight. And this can quite easily mean that you say and do things which you know will wrangle and irritate people.

Take kettling for example, psychologically we know it gets peoples' backs up, we know it increases the chances of people hitting out, so why do we still kettle people when we know it actually increases the chances of violence?

One of the first things youth workers learn as part of their training is how their body language, eye contact, tone of voice etc affects the outcome of a situation. Do you think coppers get this type of training? I don't, but I think it's hugely important given their work is people person work.
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I cant recall exactly where I saw it, but I've read some interesting things regarding the psychological composition of career criminals. What was really interesting was that the author was of the view that essentially the factors that contribute to someone becoming a career criminal or police office are incredibly similar. Lots of similar traits regarding self image, power etc etc.

Of course there are some nasty power trippers that see it as a license to wield unreasonable power and reaffirm their self image. However I would wonder about those who do enter the force with the best of intentions (helping community etc) and through their experiences end up becoming hardened and nasty. For example if you get attacked enough and have violent aggressive attitudes towards you I dont think anyone could stop that modifying their behaviour in some way.
 
purenarcotic said:
Take kettling for example, psychologically we know it gets peoples' backs up, we know it increases the chances of people hitting out, so why do we still kettle people when we know it actually increases the chances of violence?
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It gets the desired response. Well, desired if you'r trying to make a whole group of protesters look like violent thugs so you can belittle their protest and put the message that it's bad to protest.
 
grit said:
I cant recall exactly where I saw it, but I've read some interesting things regarding the psychological composition of career criminals. What was really interesting was that the author was of the view that essentially the factors that contribute to someone becoming a career criminal or police office are incredibly similar. Lots of similar traits regarding self image, power etc etc.

Of course there are some nasty power trippers that see it as a license to wield unreasonable power and reaffirm their self image. However I would wonder about those who do enter the force with the best of intentions (helping community etc) and through their experiences end up becoming hardened and nasty. For example if you get attacked enough and have violent aggressive attitudes towards you I dont think anyone could stop that modifying their behaviour in some way.
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Then the supervision so they can look at themselves and their reactions should be better. I have to accept when I start my social work training I may be placed somewhere where I will be abused (hopefully only verbally!) by service users a lot. It will be my responsibility to make sure I reflect on my behaviour and attitudes appropriately so that I do not act in such a way that could actually cause further damage. If I feel the supervision is not good enough at my placement, I will pay to see somebody to offload to, because I will be working with vulnerable people and it is hugely important to me that I do everything I can to make sure I do not fuck up.

If you become hardened and nasty, you have failed to self reflect and deal with those issues and you should leave your job.
 
Louis MacNeice said:
And it shouldn't be used in a humorous way at all...never ever...no way.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice
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it shouldn't be used to replace the word ambivalent or changeable .. in recent weeks the weathers been schizophrenic this makes me feel a little bi-polar... what next I can't quite reach that thing on the shelf I'm feeling a touch thalidomide today, hmmm I can't work the logic out on that I've come over all downs, you'll have to forgive me I've got a touch of the spaz today etc...

it's not fucking on and shows how glibly mental illness is treated by the ignoramus who uses such terms in such a fashion...

and if you can find any humour in their original usage of it other than laughing at the cretinous inappropriateness then you're a cunt too...
 
purenarcotic said:
Then the supervision so they can look at themselves and their reactions should be better. I have to accept when I start my social work training I may be placed somewhere where I will be abused (hopefully only verbally!) by service users a lot. It will be my responsibility to make sure I reflect on my behaviour and attitudes appropriately so that I do not act in such a way that could actually cause further damage. If I feel the supervision is not good enough at my placement, I will pay to see somebody to offload to, because I will be working with vulnerable people and it is hugely important to me that I do everything I can to make sure I do not fuck up.

If you become hardened and nasty, you have failed to self reflect and deal with those issues and you should leave your job.
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I agree wholeheartedly, however at the same that doesn't mean that it isn't incredibly easy to do. While its not acceptable, I find it very understandable.
 
grit said:
I agree wholeheartedly, however at the same that doesn't mean that it isn't incredibly easy to do. While its not acceptable, I find it very understandable.
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Personally I find it difficult to feel much understanding. If nothing can be put in place to make these unacceptable behaviours far less likely to happen, then perhaps we need to examine alternatives to our current set up and system.
 
purenarcotic said:
Personally I find it difficult to feel much understanding. If nothing can be put in place to make these unacceptable behaviours far less likely to happen, then perhaps we need to examine alternatives to our current set up and system.
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Sure, however I think it will be interesting if that attitude shifts if you are put in a placement where you are dealing with "difficult" clients. It wouldnt make you a bad person, we are all fallible humans at the end of the day.
 
grit said:
I agree wholeheartedly, however at the same that doesn't mean that it isn't incredibly easy to do. While its not acceptable, I find it very understandable.
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it also misses the point that most behaviours are culturally established within and organisation and therefore harder to break out because you validation or chastisement is by the community of your peers who will all to a certain extent have a vested interest in not highlight poor practice in case it reflects on them too... insitutionalised racism for example... sexism for another... the it's ok to pin them to the floor if they're being verbal you never know what might happen next, the leave em face down in the cells to clam down then we'll deal with them etc etc etc...

As much as anything if the culture remains unchanged and the people within it receive validation from it then why would they change... and so they don't...

Biggest Gang in London the MET... imitation rituals stick with the raw recruits for the rest of their lives...
 
GarfieldLeChat said:
it also misses the point that most behaviours are culturally established within and organisation and therefore harder to break out because you validation or chastisement is by the community of your peers who will all to a certain extent have a vested interest in not highlight poor practice in case it reflects on them too... insitutionalised racism for example... sexism for another... the it's ok to pin them to the floor if they're being verbal you never know what might happen next, the leave em face down in the cells to clam down then we'll deal with them etc etc etc...

As much as anything if the culture remains unchanged and the people within it receive validation from it then why would they change... and so they don't...

Biggest Gang in London the MET... imitation rituals stick with the raw recruits for the rest of their lives...
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I wouldn't argue for a moment that its not a very ingrained and complex problem to solve. However, at the very least I dont think its fair to accuse all of them of being cunts from the get go.
 
GarfieldLeChat said:
it shouldn't be used to replace the word ambivalent or changeable .. in recent weeks the weathers been schizophrenic this makes me feel a little bi-polar... what next I can't quite reach that thing on the shelf I'm feeling a touch thalidomide today, hmmm I can't work the logic out on that I've come over all downs, you'll have to forgive me I've got a touch of the spaz today etc...

it's not fucking on and shows how glibly mental illness is treated by the ignoramus who uses such terms in such a fashion...

and if you can find any humour in their original usage of it other than laughing at the cretinous inappropriateness then you're a cunt too...
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A cunt who at one time recieved a diagnosis of manic depression. A cunt who has struggled on and off with mental helath issues from his late teens to the present and yet manages to retain some perspective. And above all a cunt who is so so glad that you're there to put me right.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice
 
grit said:
Sure, however I think it will be interesting if that attitude shifts if you are put in a placement where you are dealing with "difficult" clients. It wouldnt make you a bad person, we are all fallible humans at the end of the day.
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If my attitude ever changed to thinking it was acceptable to treat people in a demeaning and disrespectful way, then frankly I hope somebody would be around to kick that attitude the fuck out of me. There is a big difference between making a mistake because you're human and constantly working in a negative and inflammatory manner.
 
grit said:
I wouldn't argue for a moment that its not a very ingrained and complex problem to solve. However, at the very least I dont think its fair to accuse all of them of being cunts from the get go.
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sure it is, use it in a fashion which isn't directly related to the illness itself and you're a cunt...

I can't even see why anyone would argue differently, if it were racism, sexism or homophobic comments then no one would even quibble that inappropriate usage marks one down as a cunt. but it's ok it's only the disabled we can abuse these terms... it's only divs and mongs what are the going to do drool on you... etc...
 
purenarcotic said:
If my attitude ever changed to thinking it was acceptable to treat people in a demeaning and disrespectful way, then frankly I hope somebody would be around to kick that attitude the fuck out of me. There is a big difference between making a mistake because you're human and constantly working in a negative and inflammatory manner.
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While this is tongue in cheek, there is an interesting twist of irony in the bolded part. If anything that could probably reinforce any negative behaviours.
 
GarfieldLeChat said:
sure it is, use it in a fashion which isn't directly related to the illness itself and you're a cunt...

I can't even see why anyone would argue differently, if it were racism, sexism or homophobic comments then no one would even quibble that inappropriate usage marks one down as a cunt. but it's ok it's only the disabled we can abuse these terms... it's only divs and mongs what are the going to do drool on you... etc...
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Sorry you have lost me....
 
grit said:
While this is tongue in cheek, there is an interesting twist of irony in the bolded part. If anything that could probably reinforce any negative behaviours.
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Obviously it's tongue in cheek. I would prefer not to be beaten up ta. ;)
 
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