Old Negatives

[cybertect]

Also the fact that 'Warwick Street' was renamed didn't help matters. I recall, I think there is another Warwick Street somewhere in London and that didn't work out for whatever reason as well.

There were quite a few of them (Warwick Streets, that is).

AFAICT there was a lot of renaming of London streets with the same name around the turn of the century, presumably to help avoid confusion between them for post, taxis, etc. I've come across the same thing in the past when researching things like family history. You can't necessarily rely on them being the same now as they were in the 1880s.

I noticed last night when looking at the high res version that a WARWICK STREET S.E. street name sign is on the wall of the building on the corner. S.E. should have been a give-away (old fashioned shorthand for SE1). I was working mostly on gut instinct that it felt like somewhere in the area (I happen to work less than a couple of miles from there). It certainly wasn't Westminster.

 

[miss minnie]

Love the old ads on the building. Daily Telegraph - largest circulation in the world. Beechams Pills - worth a guinea a box!

Also love the little groups framed in the windows, terrific little vignettes in themselves.

Fantastic detective work there Cyber! Its added a new layer to The Borough area for me!

 

[miss minnie]

I was browsing the digital collection of The Museum of London and was disappointed by the lack of detail in the descriptions.

"Busy street scene with horse-drawn cab in foreground; c1900".

 

[mick2007]

I know this sounds a bit crap..but this neg cost me 4 quid along with another..for another 4 bar. I always hoped Victoria might be in that carriage..but it was too blured e.t.c.

But this totally confirms it..though hidden under an sun umbrella..darling.

I just love the detail in this photo of all the characters in the crowd and stuff like the posters on the wall. I guess in the past I got too caught up trying to age it from tryng to read all the posters e.t.c. and not the main event.

 

[cybertect]

Ha!

http://www.museumoflondonprints.com/image.php?id=139371&idx=7&fromsearch=true



If I'm right, this painting was done from just about the same spot, but looking west instead of north east.

Actually, looking at it again, I am now wondering if the painting was done from the opposite side of the street and the artist, Mary Edith Durham, was sat somewhere in amongst the crowd in the stands on the right hand side of your photo

 

[Mrs Magpie]

This is still my favourite thread


MORE!

 

[mick2007]

This is around the back of the old Ford's Hospital.

I've got another job lot of these old negatives. This first one is a dry plate and I presume a copy of the original, but still no doubt pretty rare and of better quality than a postcard or whatever. I also found it in the local library of photographs.

http://www.picturesofcoventry.co.uk...yout=coventry&keyval=coventry.image_no=c00247

On a more exciting note for myself, I found a copy of the 'Three Tuns Commercial Inn' in the same photograph library..

My copy.

The Coventry Library copy.

http://www.picturesofcoventry.co.uk...yout=coventry&keyval=coventry.image_no=c00178

As far as I can see by a very long way this is the original negative for the photograph in the library..also being wet plate makes it fit the date. I would now love to try and find out who the photographer is? It's not mentioned in the library information alas. So I'm quite buzzing off that!

Right I'll go and get my anorak..

 

[cybertect]

As far as I can see by a very long way this is the original negative for the photograph in the library..also being wet plate makes it fit the date.

Blimey, it does rather look like you're right.

Their picture search wasn't working when I tried it before.

e2a: interesting detail: they also have this photo of the same place, but with scaffolding on the church tower. There appears to be the same cart parked in the same place on Warwick Lane

 

[miss minnie]

...

...
On a more exciting note for myself, I found a copy of the 'Three Tuns Commercial Inn' in the same photograph library..

My copy.

The Coventry Library copy.

http://www.picturesofcoventry.co.uk...yout=coventry&keyval=coventry.image_no=c00178

As far as I can see by a very long way this is the original negative for the photograph in the library..also being wet plate makes it fit the date. I would now love to try and find out who the photographer is? It's not mentioned in the library information alas. So I'm quite buzzing off that!

Right I'll go and get my anorak..

Posted that pic back in post #62, wasn't a 100% sure that this was the same 'Commercial Hotel'.

 

[mick2007]

Certainly is the same gaff Minnie.

All I can guess about this one is it's some old guy working on something in a workshop. It appears to be woodwork? I know very little about machinery..let alone machinery from this period.

So if anyone can extract any kind of info from this photograph as to what is going on e.t.c. it might help and try to locate where it might be e.t.c. Though I guess that's a bit of a tall order.

High Res

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5173/5527912677_468e9bfc27_o.jpg

I haven't really had chance to have a search on this one.

High Res.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5297/5528614394_eb0475774c_o.jpg

Crop.

 

[cybertect]

Crop.

Quite probably Barras Lane; in Coventry, again. Looking up the Holyhead Road (or possibly down Coundon Road at the eastern end)

Google StreetView

A lot of late Victorian slum clearance occurred in Coventry according to mrs c. Which would fit with the age of the houses in the present view.

e2a: She also says it's pronounced "Bars", not "Ba-rass"

 

[cybertect]

Could be a coincidence, but might be of relevance...

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,285215.msg1683573.html

There is only one Charles Gibbs on the disc, his indenture and enrolment is dated 9/5/1865 as coachbuilder. Father Johnathan, abode Coventry, His master was his father Johnathan Gibbs.

There was also a Harry Gibbs indenture and enrolment 4/11/1871 as coachbuilder with johnathan as father and master.

There was also a james gibbs (master) coachbuilder.

 

[cybertect]

Update.

How about Spon End

Index to “The History of Warwickshire” by William West (1830)
Surnames beginning with 'G'

GIBBS, James Coach & Harness maker, Spon End, Coventry 771

http://www.picturesofcoventry.co.uk...yout=coventry&keyval=coventry.image_no=c01034

[Photo of Spon End from the Coventry Library collection]

check out the chimneys

And upon double-checking her family tree, James Gibbs is actually an ancestor of mrs c, her great-great-great-great-great grandfather, born in 1796

e2a: I'm informed that 'Spon End' is a term for the area, so that is quite possibly Spon Street.

 

[cybertect]

The old chap is probably either a watchmaker or a tool maker (other relatives on the in-law side in that trade too). Mrs C refers to the scene as a 'top shop'.

A reasonably well off one with all that glass. Precision work judging by the gearing on the lathe.

Might fit with the watchmaker on the right in the street scene, but that's further conjecture.

 

[cybertect]

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,293597.0.html

I would be pleased for any details of James Gibbs, coach builder of Spon St, Coventry, both as to whom he was apprenticed, and those apprenticed to him (hopefully giving his sons' names).

He was born in 1796 and so I'd guess that he started his own apprenticeship at about 13/14 years of age, so about 1810. He continued at his trade until his death in 1866.

 

[cybertect]

An example of a 'Top Shop' from the Coventry Library site

http://www.picturesofcoventry.co.uk...yout=coventry&keyval=coventry.image_no=c00539

Before people worked in factories, they'd take in piece work at home.

The family lived in the floors below, with the workshop on the top floor with plenty of natural light.

 

[miss minnie]

The old chap is probably either a watchmaker or a tool maker (other relatives on the in-law side in that trade too). Mrs C refers to the scene as a 'top shop'.

A reasonably well off one with all that glass. Precision work judging by the gearing on the lathe.

Might fit with the watchmaker on the right in the street scene, but that's further conjecture.

Hmm. Are those trees outside? Are those bars on the windows?


e2a: this could be the place to ask about the old machinery and workshop

 

[cybertect]

Yes, I think they are bars.

Valuable machinery and his livelihood need protection.

 

[mick2007]

Cybertect,

Your attention to detail has been staggering! did I read right, that your an architect or something like that? It would fit how you notice certain parts of the photographs. I've just been re-reading some of your posts on here about the dates of some of these glass negs. It would really now appear that some of these at least date from the 1870's...I didn't really believe it at first because I thought they were copies.

I got in touch with Rob who runs the 'Historic Coventry' website and is no doubt reading this (cheers Rob, I'll email after this).

http://www.historiccoventry.co.uk/main/history.php

He sent me an amazing reply about the street scene photograph and I'll ask him if I can copy some of it on here.

You of course are correct! I did quite a bit of searching but couldn't really come up with anything concrete. Apparently the road names have been swopped around a little over time.

I started by trying to search the coach builders...couldn't really find anything myself. Unbelievable that you are related! It was worth sticking that on for that alone.

When I got up something just struck me..

Rob said that he had read that Joseph Wingrave's negatives had been donated to Coventry Library by his son...call me a fool if you want..

The photograph of the bloke working in his workshop..the negative is a dry plate..so a lot later than the others. You don't think thats Joseph Wingrave as an older man?!

Compare potential younger version.

http://www.historiccoventry.co.uk/broadgate/broadgate2.php

It is of course stated earlier on..that Joseph Wingrave was the only photographer who took photographs around Coventry from this early period of the 1860/70's. I have to say that the wet plate negs are exceptionally well taken and the quality on high res for that period of photography suggests to me someone who really knew what they were doing. I feel a lot has to do with the development period..I have negatives from even upto the 1940's that are professionally taken and they are not as detailed e.t.c. as these on wet plate here...being a chemist he would know that.

What would solve who took these, is if I could find out if there is a name in Coventry Library on the one I found there.

http://www.picturesofcoventry.co.uk...yout=coventry&keyval=coventry.image_no=c00178

I've emailed them.

...well that was exciting..

 

[cybertect]

Cybertect,

Your attention to detail has been staggering! did I read right, that your an architect or something like that?

I have a degree in Architecture, though I do database systems and networks these days.

You don't think thats Joseph Wingrave as an older man?!

I'd be rather surprised if it were him (certainly that it was his workshop) unless he decided to act as his own model for the scene.

 

[mick2007]

Maybe you could become Victorian photographic detective.

 

[cybertect]

We haven't discussed my fee for this thead yet, have we?

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

We haven't discussed my fee for this thead yet, have we?

£1 per hour

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Looks like a sign for Thomas Marston, Watchmaker, Spon Street may have been there, but I'm not sure that's an "s" after the M in the shop sign for watch manufacturer

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

What do you reckon that stripey pole is cybertect?

Reminds me of the old barber poles but completely different IFSWIM

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Maybe it was a barber. Maybe a barber surgeon wo performed blood-letting. Found this

http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnnyg1955/3658580694/

 

[blossie33]

An example of a 'Top Shop' from the Coventry Library site

http://www.picturesofcoventry.co.uk...yout=coventry&keyval=coventry.image_no=c00539

Before people worked in factories, they'd take in piece work at home.

The family lived in the floors below, with the workshop on the top floor with plenty of natural light.

This thread is so interesting - it's made me look at Coventry in a new light (I am originally from B'ham and never found it very interesting from my few visits there!

Love this photo - I'm familiar with the Hugenot weavers houses in Spitalfields but never knew there was anything like that in the Midlands.

 

[cybertect]

not to be confused with


Topshop by Jeff Croft, on Flickr



Actually, here's a set of topshops on the lower Holyhead Road in Coventry

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pikerslanefarm/tags/lowerholyheadroad/


13-29, Lower Holyhead Road. Coventry. by amandabhslater, on Flickr

 

[cybertect]

Looks like a sign for Thomas Marston, Watchmaker, Spon Street may have been there, but I'm not sure that's an "s" after the M in the shop sign for watch manufacturer

I thought that looked more like MARD, rather than an S

What do you reckon that stripey pole is cybertect?

Reminds me of the old barber poles but completely different IFSWIM

reckon it probably is.

 

[Midland Red]

...

Posted that pic back in post #62, wasn't a 100% sure that this was the same 'Commercial Hotel'.

The Commercial or Temperance Hotel on the corner of Union Street and Warwick Lane is not the same as The Three Tuns Commercial Hotel which was on Warwick Road close to Bull Yard at the bottom of Hertford Street - if you stood outside the Three Tuns and looked at 45degrees to your left, you would be looking at The Temperance Hotel over the road