stethoscope
Well-Known Member
In the recent economic crisis, there's very much to be found in Das Kapital of relevance today, such as how exploitative capitalism can lead to its own collapse. Oh, look what happened?!
How useful would you rate, the economic analysis of Karl Marx [Das Kapital]..........
- Thread starter TremulousTetra
- Start date
love detective
there's no love too small
yes it didn't collapse, and it's still the strongest (only?) game in town
capital may contain many inherent barriers within the very concept of it itself, but the very existence of a barrier implies its potential transgression, there's no inherent feature within capital that will lead to its own collapse (indepedently of the physical terrain it inhabits), the only real limit to capital is the working class as active subject, not passive object looking on as capital eats itself
capital may contain many inherent barriers within the very concept of it itself, but the very existence of a barrier implies its potential transgression, there's no inherent feature within capital that will lead to its own collapse (indepedently of the physical terrain it inhabits), the only real limit to capital is the working class as active subject, not passive object looking on as capital eats itself
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
..and if you look at the link that ska invita provided from the leading post-war trotskyist 'economist' you'll see he adopts almost exactly that objectivist perspective whilst rejecting the approach you put forward:
(obv - we need to expand the w/c as active subject beyond wage demands but the point's the same).
(obv - we need to expand the w/c as active subject beyond wage demands but the point's the same).
love detective
there's no love too small
just buy the actual books randy, only a tenner each or so - much better for future references back to them, note taking, etc... you can't read 2,500 pages of printed out text like that
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Making an attempt to get round it with the help of Mr Harvey (downloaded the podcast - makes traveling more productive).
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
oh yes. It does. I felt young before I started on it.
I now feeel 95.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Keep meaning to get the Harvey book.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
but it was saved from collapse by interventionist, keynesian, very much non-capitalist economic policies...
love detective
there's no love too small
how do you think it started in the first place?
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
No, it was saved by classically capitalist barely semi-keynesian intervention. The idea that capitalism = the free market is a really damaging one.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I would also advise people not to read harvey or any other introductions until you've read at least vol 1 of the thing itself. There's no point.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
fixed.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
specifically, how so?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The 'market' was built by aggressive state intervention in its early days (enclosures, clearances, use of money-tax etc), was built around state and military intervention (empire, resource and territory/trade routes occupation etc) in its middle period and is utterly reliant on it today.
love detective
there's no love too small
hence the point about the misunderstanding of capital as an economic text or analysis, and capital as an economic system
Rubin/Perlman best sums up for me what political economy in general and marx's political economy in particular is about:-
"Political economy deals with human working activity, not from the standpoint of its technical methods and instruments of labor, but from the standpoint of its social form. It deals with production relations which are established among people in the process of production."
In terms of this definition, political economy is not the study of prices or of scarce resources; it is a study of social relations, a study of culture. Political economy asks why the productive forces of society develop within a particular social form, why the machine process unfolds within the context of business enterprise, why industrialization takes the form of capitalist development. Political economy asks how the working activity of people is regulated in a specific, historical form of economy.
Rubin/Perlman best sums up for me what political economy in general and marx's political economy in particular is about:-
"Political economy deals with human working activity, not from the standpoint of its technical methods and instruments of labor, but from the standpoint of its social form. It deals with production relations which are established among people in the process of production."
In terms of this definition, political economy is not the study of prices or of scarce resources; it is a study of social relations, a study of culture. Political economy asks why the productive forces of society develop within a particular social form, why the machine process unfolds within the context of business enterprise, why industrialization takes the form of capitalist development. Political economy asks how the working activity of people is regulated in a specific, historical form of economy.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
You're right. Plus it'll look better on the shelves.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Indeed, the most misunderstood - and possibly the most important - line in the whole 4 volumes is:
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It's rarely read - it's basically Marx's commentaries on previous theories/theorists - and it's also in two volumes! 
So that's about another 1600 pages.
So that's about another 1600 pages.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
I'm currently reading it. I have to admit to not actually reading Capital though. One day!
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
oh the shame!
love detective
there's no love too small
It's rarely read - it's basically Marx's commentaries on previous theories/theorists - and it's also in two volumes!
So that's about another 1600 pages.
three volumes surely?
(my copies are in three seperate parts/books anyway - and there's a lot of good/interesting stuff in there as well)
love detective
there's no love too small
although rubin's history of economic thought is probably an easier/better summarised starting point to what's covered in TSV
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yes, 3 parts you're right, i've got a copy done in two volumes though - which is stupidly lop-sided given the size of part 2 - just assumed that they were all printed like that.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
if you mean that we have never known a 'free market' in a nation state, I see your point
Similar threads
- Poll
