Deal between Labour and Lib Dems?

[ViolentPanda]

The whole point of FPTP is that you vote for a specific candidate. Nobdoy can replace that individual with one more popular with a central party organisation.

Although it has to be said that both of the largest parties are now operating "lists" and have altered their party constitutions to allow them to, in effect, force a candidate on a constituency (relying, of course, on political allegiance to smooth over any local problems about this).

 

[agricola]

BBC claiming that a Labour source has told them that Ed Balls wrecked the Lib-Lab talks.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Douglas Alexander, who ran Labour's election campaign, has ruled out any sort of arrangement - at all, ever - with the SNP. Which makes the arithmetic less favourable for a LibLab deal.

Is there any way for labour to form a majority coalition without the SNP? From where I'm standing there are only 323 potential votes left on the table for them, or is that enough given that Sinn Fein abstain from everything?

 

[marty21]

BBC claiming that a Labour source has told them that Ed Balls wrecked the Lib-Lab talks.

wrecking balls?

 

[cesare]

Is there any way for labour to form a majority coalition without the SNP? From where I'm standing there are only 323 potential votes left on the table for them, or is that enough given that Sinn Fein abstain from everything?

Sinn Fein + Speaker, so probably

 

[marty21]

Sinn Fein + Speaker, so probably

do the 2 deputy speakers vote, or do they abstain as well?

 

[SpookyFrank]

BBC claiming that a Labour source has told them that Ed Balls wrecked the Lib-Lab talks.

I wouldn't put it past one or other of the labour leadership candidates to sabotage the formation of a lib-lab coalition if they thought it would help their chances. I've never been one to credit Balls with excessive political nous or guile but who knows?

In any case, he's forgetting the simple fact that Britain will never elect a man called Balls as prime minister. We're practically a laughing stock as it is ffs.

 

[butchersapron]

...plus 3 deputy speakers who seem to have been forgotten about.

 

[treelover]

The orwellian use of language by the media and spinmeisters is getting overwhelming, for instance, 'Ed Milliband on the left'

how he voted

How Edward Miliband voted on key issues since 2001:
• Voted very strongly for introducing ID cards.
• Voted very strongly against an investigation into the Iraq war.
• Voted very strongly for Labour’s anti-terrorism laws.
• Voted very strongly for a stricter asylum system.
• Voted moderately for greater autonomy for schools.
• Voted a mixture of for and against laws to stop climate change.
• Voted very strongly for more EU integration.
• Voted very strongly for replacing Trident.
• Voted a mixture of for and against a transparent Parliament.

 

[cesare]

do the 2 deputy speakers vote, or do they abstain as well?

3 deputies I think. Not sure re the voting.

 

[Quartz]

do the 2 deputy speakers vote, or do they abstain as well?

Only when they're acting in the capacity of Speaker. They are party members first.

 

[danny la rouge]

Is there any way for labour to form a majority coalition without the SNP? From where I'm standing there are only 323 potential votes left on the table for them, or is that enough given that Sinn Fein abstain from everything?

LibDems plus Labour is 315. That's more than the Tories, but not a majority They could, I suppose, go for minority government with that. However, the DUP can be expected to side with the Tories, giving them 315 as well. Stalemate. So the LibLabs need the 3 SDLP MPs, who take the Labour whip anyway, so that's 318 vs 315. Perhaps the Labour thinking is that the Nats' and the Green's bluff can be called.

 

[elbows]

The news on the BBC website is featuring various quotes from Lib Dems & labour people that make it sound like a Lib-Con deal is the far more likely outcome.

 

[butchersapron]

Only when they're acting in the capacity of Speaker. They are party members first.

No, they don't vote at all.

 

[danny la rouge]

The news on the BBC website is featuring various quotes from Lib Dems & labour people that make it sound like a Lib-Con deal is the far more likely outcome.

I suppose it depends on who they speak to. Ming Campbell was briefing against a Lib-Con deal, for example.

 

[free spirit]

LibDems plus Labour is 315. That's more than the Tories, but not a majority They could, I suppose, go for minority government with that. However, the DUP can be expected to side with the Tories, giving them 315 as well. Stalemate. So the LibLabs need the 3 SDLP MPs, who take the Labour whip anyway, so that's 318 vs 315. Perhaps the Labour thinking is that the Nats' and the Green's bluff can be called.

plus alliance who're basically lib dem sister party = 319

DUP probably aren't that happy with the tory's after they sided with the UUP, and the independent ex UUP MP resigned from the UUP specifically because of their alliance with the tories, so she's obviously not on their ideological wavelength either.

Plaid would surely prefer lib/lab to tory, as would caroline lucas, and even after some labour party comments today, surely the SNP wouldn't risk a tory government.

 

[fakeplasticgirl]

from the guardian:

12.53pm: Do read this. My colleague Polly Toynbee has been taking soundings from some Lib Dems and she says they are getting the impression that some on the Labour side are not serious about striking a deal.

Polly Toynbee

Talking to some high-ups on the progressive wing of the Lib Dems, they worry that some the Labour chief negotiators are just going through the motions while putting serious obstacles in the way. They fear many in Labour agree with the neanderthal tendency represented by David Blunkett – no deal is better than giving true proportional representation to the Lib Dems.

This is odd and unexpected: they say Lords Mandelson and Adonis are extraordinarily positive and willing to give most things on the radical Lib Dem agenda. Surprisingly it is those you might think on the left – Harriet Harman, Ed Miliband and Ed Balls who are foot-dragging. This team of negotiators claim Labour can't guarantee to get real PR through the party and none seem keen on it anyway. Their attitude, say my informants, is far from welcoming. The suspicion is they would prefer to sit on the opposition bench and watch the Lib Dems be slaughtered by tying themselves to the Conservatives.

 

[free spirit]

The news on the BBC website is featuring various quotes from Lib Dems & labour people that make it sound like a Lib-Con deal is the far more likely outcome.

it's starting to look that way given the number of labour people who've been sticking the boot in.

if labour won't do a deal, then the lib dems don't really have much option other than to side with the tories. If this does happen though, it will be labour who forced the lib dems hand and let the tories in.

 

[cesare]

"a 20th century Disraeli" - John Strafford of Cameron *pukes*

He got heckled though

 

[danny la rouge]

surely the SNP wouldn't risk a tory government.

Interesting question. Of course, ideologically, their inclinations are opposed. The Scottish Tories' full name is the Conservative and Unionist Party. And the SNP describes itself as "social democrat" (it doesn't mean like the old SDP, it sees itself as to the left of that). So, you'd think they'd be unwilling to risk a confidence vote that might bring in a Tory government.

Expect that maybe they'd like to set up a Holyrood/Westminster dichotomy. The narrative would run "Scotland didn't vote Tory (85% voted for parties other than the Tories), and yet we've got a Tory Government." The friction between the two parliaments, they might hope, would play into the SNP's hands. An independence referendum in that climate might be more favourable to the SNP's position.

Of course, if people see that it was deliberate, that they could have kept the Tories out when they had the chance, then that wouldn't work.

(Footnote: the SNP's anger with what they saw as the Callaghan government's betrayal over devolution - the powers offered were weak, the Cunngham admendement made it impossible to get a majority in the referendum, and so on - saw the SNP MPs leading the no-confidence vote in 79. They were not rewarded well in Scotland for this, and languished for a generation, splitting the party, and seeing them with only 2 MPs in the 79 General Election).

 

[danny la rouge]

if labour won't do a deal, then the lib dems don't really have much option other than to side with the tories. If this does happen though, it will be labour who forced the lib dems hand and let the tories in.

The LibDems don't have to side with either. It's their choice.

 

[cesare]

Awr, Benn just got some applause.

 

[little_legs]

from the guardian:

12.53pm: Do read this. My colleague Polly Toynbee has been taking soundings from some Lib Dems and she says they are getting the impression that some on the Labour side are not serious about striking a deal.

Polly Toynbee

Talking to some high-ups on the progressive wing of the Lib Dems, they worry that some the Labour chief negotiators are just going through the motions while putting serious obstacles in the way. They fear many in Labour agree with the neanderthal tendency represented by David Blunkett – no deal is better than giving true proportional representation to the Lib Dems.

This is odd and unexpected: they say Lords Mandelson and Adonis are extraordinarily positive and willing to give most things on the radical Lib Dem agenda. Surprisingly it is those you might think on the left – Harriet Harman, Ed Miliband and Ed Balls who are foot-dragging. This team of negotiators claim Labour can't guarantee to get real PR through the party and none seem keen on it anyway. Their attitude, say my informants, is far from welcoming. The suspicion is they would prefer to sit on the opposition bench and watch the Lib Dems be slaughtered by tying themselves to the Conservatives.

i expect polly to come out in the next few hours and publicly curse at clegg. then i suspect guardian/observer will run a few damage limitation/face keeping headlines saying something like 'someone's got to govern'. i am still hoping that lib dems will remain independent.

 

[agricola]

Kate Hoey has just had a go at the unelected types like Mandleson, Adonis, Campbell and the leadership for not consulting with the PLP, and rubbished the idea of a coalition.

 

[cybertect]

BBC

BREAKING NEWS Number 10 recognises that talks with the Lib Dems have not and will reach not any positive conclusion, and they are now discussing the method of declaring that their side of the negotiation is over, BBC Radio 5 Live's political correspondent Jon Pienaar says.

 

[danny la rouge]

Brown's apparently flitting right now. Cars are being loaded with luggage and belongings.

 

[the button]

Brown's apparently flitting right now. Cars are being loaded with luggage and belongings.

Bet he's taking all the lightbulbs.

 

[innit]

Bet he's taking all the lightbulbs.

It would only be prudent.

 

[danny la rouge]

Bet he's taking all the lightbulbs.

He will, yes. And the loo roll holders.

 

[the button]

He will, yes. And the loo roll holders.

Having sown grass seed into the carpets and put kippers behind the radiators.