Carpetright, 2 Tulse Hill, to become a Sainsburys.

[spanglechick]

Kind of depends on your perspective (and politics), but I personally tend to favour people with disabilities/disabled people and senior citizens/elderly people. Basically any label that doesn't residualise the labelee as part of some homogeneous mass of "the (insert label)" but rather, recognises that they're actually a heterogeneous group of people.

TBF, it's not something I'd have expected to be at the forefront of awareness for teachers, as other professions aren't that well-informed either.

oh, right, yes. that's part of a broader thing: christian people / muslim people / french people / gay people etc.

it's funny how some sound worse than others. i would never talk about "the blacks" or "the gays": that sounds like hate speech... but wouldn't think twice about saying "the French"... is hat because nationality is less likely to be stigmatised, I wonder? Anyway... point taken.

 

[Winot]

"People who happen to be French".

 

[Curly German]

oh, right, yes. that's part of a broader thing: christian people / muslim people / french people / gay people etc.

it's funny how some sound worse than others. i would never talk about "the blacks" or "the gays": that sounds like hate speech... but wouldn't think twice about saying "the French"... is hat because nationality is less likely to be stigmatised, I wonder? Anyway... point taken.

And most people who are Christian are happy to be called Christians.

 

[Manter]

My theory is that the reason the Tesco garage is always a mess is that they make a lot of money in a very small space -it is in easy walking distance of plenty of houses with not much competition. I do buy milk and bread there, but there is never anything really nice to eat and I hate all the queuing. I think the staff are generally good and I have a small crush on the big sharply dressed guy who looks like a bouncer and calls me madam.

To be honest, I'm selfishly quite favourably disposed to a Sainsburys on Tulse Hill. Wish we were gentrified enough for Waitrose though....

That guy is a sweetie.

 

[billythefish]

I see Clapham Common is just getting its first Waitrose... by the Tube Station near Iceland. I suppose we have to wait a few more years for ours.

 

[leanderman]

Exactly. Gentrification debaters may overlook the fact that other places change as well.

Relatively speaking, we may not be quite as gentrified as feared!

 

[Boudicca]

(Starts composing letter to Waitrose telling them about the empty unit next to Brixton square...)

 

[quimcunx]

I'm slightly less hostile to the idea of full sized supermarkets opening up. But they should be forced to shut all express/metro whatever stores within a mile of it. Or something.

 

[Effrasurfer]

Chuka has just booked our Tenants Hall on St Matthew's Road for Wednesday 6th at 8pm for a People's Question Time on this Sainsbury's.

 

[Effrasurfer]

Btw the staff in our two local grocery shops seem to think that a Sainsbury's Local would be competition but a big Sainsbury's is not and may even increase trade. I was surprised to hear that, but one of the guys based this theory on his previous experience working in a small shop in Clapham.

 

[leanderman]

Chuka has just booked our Tenants Hall on St Matthew's Road for Wednesday 5th at 8pm for a People's Question Time on this Sainsbury's.

I have always found the CarpetRight rather anomalous in a basically residential area.

I think a decent-sized supermarket would be much more useful.

In the unlikely event Sainsbury was blocked, the site would quickly turn into a shambles.

 

[Boudicca]

There are a few empty units nearby and businesses often struggle there. A big Sainsburys could be a good thing as it will bring people in - you just need your business to be complementary not competitive.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

I think this "trickle down" effect is a bit of a myth - how much business does the big Tesco 'bring in' to the local shops on Acre Lane for instance? Very little I suspect, esp. given a lot of Tesco shoppers drive there in their cars or use the bus. Why would you use the chemists or the off licence on Tulse Hill if everything is available in a big Sainsburys right there?

I've got some research on the effect of big supermarkets moving into an area....I'll dig it out.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

l

Probably true. Still, local shops could make a little more effort than this!

View attachment 28076

Yeah, but it's not really a shop is it, it's a storeroom, but admittedly, it does look very tatty from outside

 

[gaijingirl]

I think this "trickle down" effect is a bit of a myth - how much business does the big Tesco 'bring in' to the local shops on Acre Lane for instance? Very little I suspect, esp. given a lot of Tesco shoppers drive there in their cars or use the bus. Why would you use the chemists or the off licence on Tulse Hill if everything is available in a big Sainsburys right there?

I've got some research on the effect of big supermarkets moving into an area....I'll dig it out.

i hope that Baba's chemist will be ok. They are excellent. I think they will survive, at least in the short term, as all the prescriptions from BWL surgery are sent there. I used Baba's for years and would certainly use them over a supermarket chemist. I suppose though they'd lose income from incidentals like shampoo etc which would certainly be cheaper across the road. The offy is 24 hours which is handy - and is very busy at night time. I agree though, they'll likely take a hit one way or another.

 

[Winot]

oh, right, yes. that's part of a broader thing: christian people / muslim people / french people / gay people etc.

it's funny how some sound worse than others. i would never talk about "the blacks" or "the gays": that sounds like hate speech... but wouldn't think twice about saying "the French"... is hat because nationality is less likely to be stigmatised, I wonder? Anyway... point taken.

You might find this thread interesting.

 

[leanderman]

Chuka has just booked our Tenants Hall on St Matthew's Road for Wednesday 5th at 8pm for a People's Question Time on this Sainsbury's.

Surely there are bigger issues for him to tackle than this one, which is pretty finely balanced.

 

[ViolentPanda]

i hope that Baba's chemist will be ok. They are excellent.

Not in my opinion. In my opinion they're worse than useless.

I think they will survive, at least in the short term, as all the prescriptions from BWL surgery are sent there.

All the prescriptions of people who want either their prescriptions deposited at Baba, or who want their medication delivered.

Greebo picks my prescription up from BWL surgery, and takes it to Elm Court pharmacy. Why? Because I have a long scrip, and Baba rarely have all the items and sometimes took a fortnight to get them when we used there. Not good enough if you're on meds that need to be taken consistently, with no breaks.

I used Baba's for years and would certainly use them over a supermarket chemist. I suppose though they'd lose income from incidentals like shampoo etc which would certainly be cheaper across the road. The offy is 24 hours which is handy - and is very busy at night time. I agree though, they'll likely take a hit one way or another.

Agreed that supermarket pharmacies are shit. Most of them carry fuck-all stock, and rely on "just in time" ordering, and getting people to come back the next day for their meds.

 

[gaijingirl]

Not in my opinion. In my opinion they're worse than useless.



All the prescriptions of people who want either their prescriptions deposited at Baba, or who want their medication delivered.

Greebo picks my prescription up from BWL surgery, and takes it to Elm Court pharmacy. Why? Because I have a long scrip, and Baba rarely have all the items and sometimes took a fortnight to get them when we used there. Not good enough if you're on meds that need to be taken consistently, with no breaks.



Agreed that supermarket pharmacies are shit. Most of them carry fuck-all stock, and rely on "just in time" ordering, and getting people to come back the next day for their meds.

oh.. sorry you had such a bad experience. I guess I have been lucky or perhaps my meds are relatively straightforward? And yes you are right to clarify - obviously one doesn't HAVE to have prescriptions deposited at Baba.. but many people do. And many just take it round there anyway, with it being the closest pharmacy to the surgery.

 

[Greebo]

i hope that Baba's chemist will be ok. They are excellent.

*splutters with incredulity* OMG which other chemists have you ever tried to believe that Baba's excellent? One of VP's prescriptions was given to somebody else; another time they filled the prescription correctly, and then asked me to deliver somebody else's medication (a complete stranger living on the same estate); and they invariably had none at all of at least one prescribed item (none of it exotic).

There was also the time that a bloke with an abdominal gunshot wound went in there for a plaster (wanting to avoid A&E or dialling 999) and you know what they did? Sat him on that backless ottoman and turned on the air conditioning while waiting for an ambulance.

 

[gaijingirl]

*splutters with incredulity* OMG which other chemists have you ever tried to believe that Baba's excellent? One of VP's prescriptions was given to somebody else; another time they filled the prescription correctly, and then asked me to deliver somebody else's medication (a complete stranger living on the same estate); and they invariably had none at all of at least one prescribed item (none of it exotic).

There was also the time that a bloke with an abdominal gunshot wound went in there for a plaster (wanting to avoid A&E or dialling 999) and you know what they did? Sat him on that backless ottoman and turned on the air conditioning while waiting for an ambulance.

Well what you say sounds terrible and it's shit that you experienced that, but I can't pretend I've had bad service in there, when actually it's always been really good. They always had my medication and they always helped me out. I get free meds so they'd see a lot of me and they were v. friendly. I have used other chemists since (because we've moved) and not found one that I've liked as much to be honest. Maybe I just was lucky or my needs were relatively easy to meet?

 

[Greebo]

Well what you say sounds terrible and it's shit that you experienced that, but I can't pretend I've had bad service in there, when actually it's always been really good. They always had my medication and they always helped me out. I get free meds so they'd see a lot of me and they were v. friendly. I have used other chemists since (because we've moved) and not found one that I've liked as much to be honest. Maybe I just was lucky or my needs were relatively easy to meet?

I'm glad they've been okay for you. I'd agree that the staff in there are friendly and it's really not the worst chemist if you have to wait for any length of time there. It doesn't hurt that it's convenient for a newsagent, bus stops, and a few takeaway places too.

 

[nagapie]

I like Baba but I have never tried to use it for a prescription, it's fine for baby stuff and prevents me from spending my money at Superdrug or Boots (who have a shitter nappy selection).

 

[leanderman]

The Day Lewis chemist by Nisa on Brixton Hill is brilliant, and we go there a lot for eczema stuff for a daughter.

 

[pissflaps]

The Day Lewis chemist by Nisa on Brixton Hill is brilliant, and we go there a lot for eczema stuff for a daughter.

More Oscars than a Kensington Play school AND a quality apothecary... is there no end to the man's talents.

 

[sparkybird]

I don't think it will be a big sized Sainsbuy's though - the most recent one on Brixton Hill was also in previous life a big carpet shop and that's just a 'local' now. I think a lot is used for storage...

 

[leanderman]

I don't think it will be a big sized Sainsbuy's though - the most recent one on Brixton Hill was also in previous life a big carpet shop and that's just a 'local' now. I think a lot is used for storage...

It's pretty big, 24 hours and takes the whole site. Similar size to the supermarkets of the 70s and 80s, before they got out of control.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Surely there are bigger issues for him to tackle than this one, which is pretty finely balanced.

Maybe, yes. But I expect he sees it as good personal PR. Same as with the Tesco/George IV thing. Get involved/look involved, listen to people's concerns, (probably) sit on the fence, and come out of it looking good, regardless of which way the decision goes (which is likely to be out of his hands, and out of the community's hands.) Remember he is the Shadow Business Secretary. If/when Labour get back into Government in a couple of years, Chuka will be Business Secretary and the likes of Tesco & Sainsbury's will be invited into his office for a cosy chat on the sofa whilst his officials makes friends with their coroprate relations departments.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

I think this "trickle down" effect is a bit of a myth - how much business does the big Tesco 'bring in' to the local shops on Acre Lane for instance? Very little I suspect, esp. given a lot of Tesco shoppers drive there in their cars or use the bus. Why would you use the chemists or the off licence on Tulse Hill if everything is available in a big Sainsburys right there?

I've got some research on the effect of big supermarkets moving into an area....I'll dig it out.

This is far from comprehensive, but here's some of the stats and research I dug out about supermarkets and how they affect local areas when they move in.

- locally owned/independent businesses tend to more embedded in the community, therefore the money they receive and pay out to suppliers/staff etc is more likely to circulate in the local economy. On average, for every £1 spent in a supermarket, 90 pence leaves the local area (nef/Countryside Agency 2002)

- spending money with local suppliers means money gets recycled around the local community. Northumberland Council did a study (not just related to retail, but also other local businesses) which showed £1 spent with a local supplier created £1.76 worth of value to the local economy, whereas £1 spent with outside suppliers only created 36 pence of value. (nef 2005)

- supermarkets can lead to a loss in skills in a local area. A variety of skills/jobs such as butchery, bakery, dairy people, vegetable dealers/suppliers, fruiterers, people running their own businesses etc get lost, and replaced with lower-skilled jobs like shelf stackers, warehouse operatives and checkout clerks. (Haralambos & Holborn: Sociology 1995)

- there is also a stat which shows that - despite supermarkets claiming to 'create' jobs - new supermarkets on average lead to an overall loss of employment in local retail when measured some time after opening (I think two years iirc). Fewer people are actually employed overall - can't remember the actual % reduction though. (Can't find the exact reference for that one, sorry...will keep looking)

- local convenience stores create more jobs in terms of sales than supermarkets. Figures for 2004 show these shops, which employ over half a million people, took only £42,000 worth of turnover to create a job. Supermarkets take £95,000 of sales to create a job. E.g. Tesco (£29 billion turnover) employed 250,000 people while small grocery shops (£21 billion turnover) employed double the number of people. (The Grocer 15/05/2004)

There's loads, loads more. Check out http://www.tescopoly.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=39&Itemid=176 for example...

There was a good quote from Benjamin Zephaniah (poet) when he was interviewed about Queens Market in Newham and the threat from supermarkets. He talked about how supermarkets could never create the community interactions which the market and local shops did. He said:
"I have spoken to people who recall when the customers were all German immigrants and someone else who remembers when they were all Jewish. I go there sometimes and you see the white, middle-aged guys who sell to the Asian ladies and have learned a bit of Urdu."

 

[paolo]

I went to (most of) tonight's community session, run by Chuka with reps from Lambeth Council and Sainsbury's on the panel.

There was a good turn out from the local community, and although the majority were opposed or concerned, there were also some people who were pro.

Some of the points raised included:
- Traffic (Both customer vehicles, and delivery / waste collection, Crossing safety on BWL, Impact/viability of the existing national cycle route, Arodene Rd Rat Run)
- Employment Policy (Hire of Local Staff, Staff Continuity, London Living Wage, Hire of local young people for *paid* training/apprenticeship).
- Customer Engagement (Benefit of familiar counter staff, relationship in independents, vs. Checkout or No Staff, i.e. Self Checkout)
- Community Relationships in General (including accepting the Brixton Pound).
- The Council acting for the community, beyond it's basic legal mandate re: planning

One overriding theme was impact on local independents. Sainsbury's reps claimed other stores of theirs had been a positive catalyst, one council rep said the evidence was the opposite.

Not everyone was anti/concerned, and people who were pro were invited (by Chuka) to have their say, and were by and large treated respectfully by everyone else.

Anyone else here attend? Perhaps you can fill out some of the inevitable gaps in my list above.

Although these types of forums end up being very long, I'd strongly recommend going if you are serious about your views. You can get a much better understanding about how people feel, and also get your own views across to elected reps who - I guess - won't read much / anything from here in the bear pit.