Cannabis Festival Licencee Charged
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DJWrongspeed
radio eros
ol nick seems to be suggesting the council fund this in some small way. I don't think this is really a cost, it's so part of maintaining the park and policing Brixton, we all pay for it anyway over a year.
Incidentally i think my brother-in-law is one of these opponents to the festival in terms of being a resident and resenting it but really he doesn't have any case. A bit of noise on a saturday afternoon......this is london ffs.
It's a celebration of soundsystem culture, of which us Brits should be proud, As the years have gone by the Cannabis bit has become less important, it's like some kinda Rite of Spring..........ha! long may it continue.
Incidentally i think my brother-in-law is one of these opponents to the festival in terms of being a resident and resenting it but really he doesn't have any case. A bit of noise on a saturday afternoon......this is london ffs.
It's a celebration of soundsystem culture, of which us Brits should be proud, As the years have gone by the Cannabis bit has become less important, it's like some kinda Rite of Spring..........ha! long may it continue.
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
So what happened at this morning's hearing?
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
ol nick wrote
The police are paid for anyway through our council tax.
I may be wrong but I dont think the council actually subsidise the festival at all. The organisers pay for the clean up, the organisers have to pay for the licence - the council actually MAKES money from this event - and so does the local area through increased use of pubs, shops, off licences........ weed dealers he he
The police are paid for anyway through our council tax.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
to echo this: can some kind peeps PLEEEZ put up the URL for the festival's organisers' website, or some email link. This festival MUST be defended and continued. Time for talking stops. time to act STARTS.Originally posted by hatboy
Sorry I haven't found them myself. But email and postal address please anyone?
I'm sure many of us would write to support the festival and Shane.
Stig
Condimentalist
W of W posting
I'm new to this thread very late, but I concur with everything that Mike (in particular) said and with what all those who are pissed off with Lambeth's attitude said.
I've no objection to it moving to Burgess Park 
and unlike Rollem I don't think it's that bad a park at all -- plus add a few sound systems and general festie atmos. and it would be transformed.
But -- aurora, where did you get that rumour from?
I'm not THAT confident though that Southwark would be all nice and easy going about it , the narrow minded nimby element round here is pretty vocal locally. And I think the Police in Southwark would be less laid back, too.
Anyway Southwark vs Lambeth is not the real issue just now, the most important, pressing question is ...
WHAT WAS THE OUTCOME OF SHANE'S CASE???
Will post more about this soon. I'm very concerned at yet another possible threat to our much diminished free festival culture
W of W
I'm new to this thread very late, but I concur with everything that Mike (in particular) said and with what all those who are pissed off with Lambeth's attitude said.
I've no objection to it moving to Burgess Park
and unlike Rollem I don't think it's that bad a park at all -- plus add a few sound systems and general festie atmos. and it would be transformed.But -- aurora, where did you get that rumour from?
I'm not THAT confident though that Southwark would be all nice and easy going about it , the narrow minded nimby element round here is pretty vocal locally. And I think the Police in Southwark would be less laid back, too.
Anyway Southwark vs Lambeth is not the real issue just now, the most important, pressing question is ...
WHAT WAS THE OUTCOME OF SHANE'S CASE???
Will post more about this soon. I'm very concerned at yet another possible threat to our much diminished free festival culture
W of W
a very good park, indeed..
but yes there is a lot of rather petty mindedness around that might make it difficult to organise.Cannabis festival charged by Lambeth Council - result
RE: Cannabis Festival Court Case
The Council dropped the charges of sale of alcohol, - it was being given to crew as a thankyou for working.
The charge of permitting music and dancing has been postponed until 21st Jan 2004 on a legal point.
Lambeth Council had four employees as witnesses, the Borough Solicitor and a barrister in court all day. All at a cost of thousands to Lambeth Council Tax payers.
For the festival Oz Wuncshe from Trojan, Paul from SLS, Shane Collins licencee, Dave Holman sound system co-ord, and Hugo Farmer Bar co-ord all gave evidence.
The free event, which was attended by 10 - 15,000 people, was one of 318 happening on the same day around the world. The organisers will be putting on the 6th annual march next 8th May 2004 and hopefully a free festival as well.
In taking this action the Council are in effect threatening one of the organisers of a free event with imprisonment and stopping the event happening next year in Lambeth.
Shane Collins, Licencee and Green Party London Assembly Candidate said
"This was a free event to protest at the continued prohibition of one of natures most useful plants
and a call for the huge trade in cannabis to be regulated and legalised. Reclassification will simply ensure the this trade remains in 'criminal' hands where disputes get settled violently and not through the small claims court.. This event is about getting dealers off the streets and into cannabis cafes.
Scores of people worked, unpaid, for six months to bring this event together. In a sane society we
might be applauded, instead the Council is spending taxpayers' money to prosecute one person for our efforts'.
RE: Cannabis Festival Court Case
The Council dropped the charges of sale of alcohol, - it was being given to crew as a thankyou for working.
The charge of permitting music and dancing has been postponed until 21st Jan 2004 on a legal point.
Lambeth Council had four employees as witnesses, the Borough Solicitor and a barrister in court all day. All at a cost of thousands to Lambeth Council Tax payers.
For the festival Oz Wuncshe from Trojan, Paul from SLS, Shane Collins licencee, Dave Holman sound system co-ord, and Hugo Farmer Bar co-ord all gave evidence.
The free event, which was attended by 10 - 15,000 people, was one of 318 happening on the same day around the world. The organisers will be putting on the 6th annual march next 8th May 2004 and hopefully a free festival as well.
In taking this action the Council are in effect threatening one of the organisers of a free event with imprisonment and stopping the event happening next year in Lambeth.
Shane Collins, Licencee and Green Party London Assembly Candidate said
"This was a free event to protest at the continued prohibition of one of natures most useful plants
and a call for the huge trade in cannabis to be regulated and legalised. Reclassification will simply ensure the this trade remains in 'criminal' hands where disputes get settled violently and not through the small claims court.. This event is about getting dealers off the streets and into cannabis cafes.
Scores of people worked, unpaid, for six months to bring this event together. In a sane society we
might be applauded, instead the Council is spending taxpayers' money to prosecute one person for our efforts'.
Deja vu
Re Cannabis Festival Licence Court case part Adjorned part dropped.
A few points on the festi and court case.
Sat 8th May 2004 will be the 6th annual cannabis march and festi. The Council do NOT subsidise the event. We pay the Council £5,250 for use and about £3K for an ents licence. (Last year they started off trying to charge us £24k).
In the Court case The Council dropped the toilet charge some weeks ago and in court the selling of alcohol 13 mins after time. (They were being given to crew in return for helping out).
The legal point of 'is a licencee responsible for everything that happens on the day' has caused the court to adjourn to 21st Jan. The Council allege a sound system turned back on 8 mins after the Entertainment Licence ran out. Evidence was given that two lads steamed the SLS decks after they had been turned off and the compromise was they played out the one tune and no more.
btw the Bars closed at 7.30pm. Sound systems at 8pm Main Stage 8.15pm. Park closes 8.45pm.
The suggestion that me or anyone in the festival engineered this court case as a way of getting publicity for the green party assembly election campaign or festival is simply misplaced. The march and festival are enough of a 6 month headache for us without bringing more on....... - as well as being taken to court by Lambeth we are persuing in the small claims court just under £5k from the loo hire company who never delivered the loos after we paid him. He may have gone bankrupt.....
But since they have taken us to Court it provides an opportunity to make the legalisation points, and complain about the Council wasting our money on prosecuting festival organisiers instead of housing or cycle lanes or advice centres or even putting on events. And yes this frustration can also be expressed politically at the gla & euro elections next year.
Feed back and debreif from last years festival was not brillant. We felt their was too much noise and competing sound systems. We failed to have more cannabis related Marquees. So next year we are only inviting 4 soundsystems, and plan to have a Grow Tent, Cannabis College, bigger Speakers Tent, bigger kids area, Poetry ....
We are considering marching from Kennington Park to Burgess Park next May 8th. Lambeth is pricing us out and the Court case will make it harder to get a licence next year.
Re Cannabis Festival Licence Court case part Adjorned part dropped.
A few points on the festi and court case.
Sat 8th May 2004 will be the 6th annual cannabis march and festi. The Council do NOT subsidise the event. We pay the Council £5,250 for use and about £3K for an ents licence. (Last year they started off trying to charge us £24k).
In the Court case The Council dropped the toilet charge some weeks ago and in court the selling of alcohol 13 mins after time. (They were being given to crew in return for helping out).
The legal point of 'is a licencee responsible for everything that happens on the day' has caused the court to adjourn to 21st Jan. The Council allege a sound system turned back on 8 mins after the Entertainment Licence ran out. Evidence was given that two lads steamed the SLS decks after they had been turned off and the compromise was they played out the one tune and no more.
btw the Bars closed at 7.30pm. Sound systems at 8pm Main Stage 8.15pm. Park closes 8.45pm.
The suggestion that me or anyone in the festival engineered this court case as a way of getting publicity for the green party assembly election campaign or festival is simply misplaced. The march and festival are enough of a 6 month headache for us without bringing more on....... - as well as being taken to court by Lambeth we are persuing in the small claims court just under £5k from the loo hire company who never delivered the loos after we paid him. He may have gone bankrupt.....
But since they have taken us to Court it provides an opportunity to make the legalisation points, and complain about the Council wasting our money on prosecuting festival organisiers instead of housing or cycle lanes or advice centres or even putting on events. And yes this frustration can also be expressed politically at the gla & euro elections next year.
Feed back and debreif from last years festival was not brillant. We felt their was too much noise and competing sound systems. We failed to have more cannabis related Marquees. So next year we are only inviting 4 soundsystems, and plan to have a Grow Tent, Cannabis College, bigger Speakers Tent, bigger kids area, Poetry ....
We are considering marching from Kennington Park to Burgess Park next May 8th. Lambeth is pricing us out and the Court case will make it harder to get a licence next year.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
thanks for keeping us up to spec ShaneC (um, is there any practical point in observing strict netiquette, when it comes to "board names only" here? ) - and please keep the info coming. Now how about PMing me with contact details for the Jayday office, or putting the URL up here, assuming you want volunteers?
just one point tho-I've only walked past Burgess park, as opposed to through it. but I can't help thinking it doesn't really look big enough for Jayday.
) - and please keep the info coming. Now how about PMing me with contact details for the Jayday office, or putting the URL up here, assuming you want volunteers?just one point tho-I've only walked past Burgess park, as opposed to through it. but I can't help thinking it doesn't really look big enough for Jayday.
aurora green
Tectonic
Burgess park is an excellent place for the festival.
I went to that Julian Marley thing there in the summer and it was great. It reminded me of the old Exodus fesival site,
Approached from Walworth road, you walked down a long and entertaining walkway, that had a funfair at the time, but could easily accomodate smaller stalls and cafes, then onto the huge field, where the main stage and bigger tents could go. The local housing is much further away from the noise than in Brockwell park too.
I also think it is bloody outrageous that Lambeth are wasting our money on this petty prosecution.
I went to that Julian Marley thing there in the summer and it was great. It reminded me of the old Exodus fesival site,
Approached from Walworth road, you walked down a long and entertaining walkway, that had a funfair at the time, but could easily accomodate smaller stalls and cafes, then onto the huge field, where the main stage and bigger tents could go. The local housing is much further away from the noise than in Brockwell park too.
I also think it is bloody outrageous that Lambeth are wasting our money on this petty prosecution.
P'raps a visible demo outside the court on the 21st might help??
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
Dope festival chief denies violations
The SLP haven't managed to get anyone from Lambeth to explain why they are pursuing the prosecution, but the judge's comments suggest that Lambeth's licensing team have as much explaining to do as Shane!
The SLP haven't managed to get anyone from Lambeth to explain why they are pursuing the prosecution, but the judge's comments suggest that Lambeth's licensing team have as much explaining to do as Shane!
Just some thoughts:
Lambeth Council profit from one of the biggest entertainment centres in South London. Are councillors as strict on all the clubs and bars from whcih they receive vast amounts of business rates (and probably even campaign contributions)?
Is anyone a bit suspicious of the fact that in the same year that someone "tips off" the drugs squad that Shane is some big-time dealer/cultivator, the council first try and price shane et al's cannabis festival out of Brockwell Park, and then when this fails they (for the second year running) try to prosecute the festival on every single thing they can find in the book (sound/toilets/alcohol/litter/public order etc etc)?
Can anyone remember the council getting all serious after Tim Westwood was shot after their own Lambeth County Show? Do they police the paying events in the park which have seen massive sound levels, portaloos being overturned (yuck), heavy machinery and vehicles wrecking the place and the park being fenced off and unavilable for local residents for long periods of time? Have they fuck!
I'd like to know whether any of the people on this thread that have been making insinuations against Shane have any party political affiliations by any chance? Also do they have any evidence that he has *ever* run anyone up the wrong way? Anyone who knows him will be able to tell you that he doesn't do this - he is a peacemaker and a reasonable person who doesn't pick fights or seek to piss people off on purpose. To suggest otherwise is just bollox. It is also slanderous to say he doesn't participate fully in local life, although why going to what some people would view as simply "micky-mouse council talking shops" is the criteria to use is beyond me.
This last observation comes from someone who tried to be constructive and helped run the Lambeth Environment Forum for three years before seeing it pissed all over by the council and for them to rip up almoist every single promise they made about their LA21 action plan.
Regarding whether people who vote Green in Lambeth are just the "trendy underground" ... firstly they have to be registered, secondly they have to go and vote, and thirdly out of these people, in Lambeth 15% regularly vote Green in local/regional/Euro elections, and about 5% in General Elections. I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions from that.
On the subject of politics - it is the Lambeth Conservative party that is the most pissed off with the Green Party - since they are now the fourth party after the Greens in 14 wards in the local elections, and only have their six councillors thanks to atypically (for Lambeth) strong showing in two wards: Thurlow Park and Gipsy Hill (coincidentally neither one anywhere near Brockwell Park).
What has this got to do with the council going after Shane and the festival? Well it is no real secret that this attack has been led by the conservative councillors, and in particular Cllr John Whelan.
The LibDems (29 seats) and Conservatives (6 seats) have formed a pact to run Lambeth Council. (Labour - - in opposition - have got 29 seats). Peter Truesdale (Liberal Democrats) is now leader of the council and John Whelan (Conservative) is deputy.
Is it too much to speculate that instead of actually doing anything useful for Lambeth, Cllr Whelan is trying to distract Conservative Central Office away from their woeful election results with this blast of hot air and shameful waste of council tax money on a politically-motivated and frivolous litigation? I can only assume that the LibDems have allowed this as it keeps their coaltion buddy Conservatives sweet and out of any real council affairs.
I have noticed that some people have mentioned their doubts about the ability of the current cannabis festival organisers to run these events. But this is something that is required to be proved to the licensing authorities *before* the event. Granting a license each year and then vindictively prosecuting afterwarsd each time suggests the licensing authorities are being "schizophrenic" to say the least.
At this point I'd like to reference the Friends of Brockwell Park website... http://www.brockwellpark.com/Event02/Event02.htm
You will notice that they are up in arms about the mess and destruction caused by .... large event [which] took place in the first weekend of June [ie NOT the cannabis festival!] (it isn't clear how up to date this is - it could be referring to 2002? - but the principle remains - the cannabis festival has *never* caused damage like this - unlike several other events!)
So much for the council giving a shit about the park and local people. They care about money and their political careers. There may be some decent local councillors - from various parties - I'll let them speak for themselves (if they are allowed to!)
Several people have claimed that "most local people" don't like the event, or that it "isn't good for Lambeth". The only real way of knowing how much the local people disliked the event is to find out how many complaints there were about it (relative to other events etc). I don't have the figures, but apparently there were actually a lower number about the cannabis festival than any of the other events in Brockwell Park during the year! So much for the local dislike!
Sorry this has been such a long post.
Here's a link to what might or might not be "official" festival site: http://www.ccguide.org.uk/
(the actual official site was http://www.ccguide.org.uk/cannabisfestival.html but it is now a broken link)
Lambeth Council profit from one of the biggest entertainment centres in South London. Are councillors as strict on all the clubs and bars from whcih they receive vast amounts of business rates (and probably even campaign contributions)?
Is anyone a bit suspicious of the fact that in the same year that someone "tips off" the drugs squad that Shane is some big-time dealer/cultivator, the council first try and price shane et al's cannabis festival out of Brockwell Park, and then when this fails they (for the second year running) try to prosecute the festival on every single thing they can find in the book (sound/toilets/alcohol/litter/public order etc etc)?
Can anyone remember the council getting all serious after Tim Westwood was shot after their own Lambeth County Show? Do they police the paying events in the park which have seen massive sound levels, portaloos being overturned (yuck), heavy machinery and vehicles wrecking the place and the park being fenced off and unavilable for local residents for long periods of time? Have they fuck!
I'd like to know whether any of the people on this thread that have been making insinuations against Shane have any party political affiliations by any chance? Also do they have any evidence that he has *ever* run anyone up the wrong way? Anyone who knows him will be able to tell you that he doesn't do this - he is a peacemaker and a reasonable person who doesn't pick fights or seek to piss people off on purpose. To suggest otherwise is just bollox. It is also slanderous to say he doesn't participate fully in local life, although why going to what some people would view as simply "micky-mouse council talking shops" is the criteria to use is beyond me.
This last observation comes from someone who tried to be constructive and helped run the Lambeth Environment Forum for three years before seeing it pissed all over by the council and for them to rip up almoist every single promise they made about their LA21 action plan.
Regarding whether people who vote Green in Lambeth are just the "trendy underground" ... firstly they have to be registered, secondly they have to go and vote, and thirdly out of these people, in Lambeth 15% regularly vote Green in local/regional/Euro elections, and about 5% in General Elections. I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions from that.
On the subject of politics - it is the Lambeth Conservative party that is the most pissed off with the Green Party - since they are now the fourth party after the Greens in 14 wards in the local elections, and only have their six councillors thanks to atypically (for Lambeth) strong showing in two wards: Thurlow Park and Gipsy Hill (coincidentally neither one anywhere near Brockwell Park).
What has this got to do with the council going after Shane and the festival? Well it is no real secret that this attack has been led by the conservative councillors, and in particular Cllr John Whelan.
The LibDems (29 seats) and Conservatives (6 seats) have formed a pact to run Lambeth Council. (Labour - - in opposition - have got 29 seats). Peter Truesdale (Liberal Democrats) is now leader of the council and John Whelan (Conservative) is deputy.
Is it too much to speculate that instead of actually doing anything useful for Lambeth, Cllr Whelan is trying to distract Conservative Central Office away from their woeful election results with this blast of hot air and shameful waste of council tax money on a politically-motivated and frivolous litigation? I can only assume that the LibDems have allowed this as it keeps their coaltion buddy Conservatives sweet and out of any real council affairs.
I have noticed that some people have mentioned their doubts about the ability of the current cannabis festival organisers to run these events. But this is something that is required to be proved to the licensing authorities *before* the event. Granting a license each year and then vindictively prosecuting afterwarsd each time suggests the licensing authorities are being "schizophrenic" to say the least.
At this point I'd like to reference the Friends of Brockwell Park website... http://www.brockwellpark.com/Event02/Event02.htm
You will notice that they are up in arms about the mess and destruction caused by .... large event [which] took place in the first weekend of June [ie NOT the cannabis festival!] (it isn't clear how up to date this is - it could be referring to 2002? - but the principle remains - the cannabis festival has *never* caused damage like this - unlike several other events!)
So much for the council giving a shit about the park and local people. They care about money and their political careers. There may be some decent local councillors - from various parties - I'll let them speak for themselves (if they are allowed to!)
Several people have claimed that "most local people" don't like the event, or that it "isn't good for Lambeth". The only real way of knowing how much the local people disliked the event is to find out how many complaints there were about it (relative to other events etc). I don't have the figures, but apparently there were actually a lower number about the cannabis festival than any of the other events in Brockwell Park during the year! So much for the local dislike!
Sorry this has been such a long post.
Here's a link to what might or might not be "official" festival site: http://www.ccguide.org.uk/
(the actual official site was http://www.ccguide.org.uk/cannabisfestival.html but it is now a broken link)
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
Does anyone know who we should email to complain about this misguided use of Council funds in pursuing this daft court case?
I'm outraged to say the least.
I'm outraged to say the least.
oy! don't slate my local park! it is a BIG park capable to hold the mother of all Jaydays
.
steve indigenou
New Member
Constructive engagement
First of all, qualified apologies for the all to transparent bitterness towards Shane that comes across in my posts. While TeeJay thinks him a great guy, I (and others I have worked with) have had bad experiences with him.
{edited: so he says, no more Collins slagging allowed}
But my main issue with ... some other people who post on this board, is the never ceasing negativity of many of the comments.
I'm never going to pretend that Lambeth Council is perfect and if the info about the Tory plot to harm Shane and the Lambeth Green Party is true then it deserves to be opposed. However, from my experiences, there are good people working in Lambeth, not necessarily at Councillor level, but certainly in the Regeneration department, who have responded very supportively in our discussions with them.
My main gripe is about representation - that the alternative scene in Brixton and Lambeth does not engage with people who, at first glance, might be considered to be unsympathetic but who can be brought round using the right methods.
The issue of festivals in Lambeth came up at a meeting of the 'Creativce and Cultural Industries Working Group' back in May. The point was made that festivals are a very good way of raising awareness of Lambeth outside of the borough, supporting local business and community groups etc. I mentioned that I didn't think that the Lambeth Country Show was good value for money in these terms, particularly as it was run by an event management company based in Portsmouth. Other members of the community agreed and it was resolved that it should be looked into.
Yes, the machinery is laborious, and it does require a degree of patience and resolve to make any progress, but I am getting tired of how relations between the council and the alternative scene in Lambeth always seem to be characterised by conflict, when this need not be the case.
..... It's much easier to slag off 'The Council' as bastards than to understand why they're doing what they are doing and do something to address their concerns. Of course the 'Council' is not a monolithic institution. Not so long ago, the deputy-chief of the regeneration department told me he used to act as an informal consultant for anti-globalisation groups in Bristol, and proceded to help us with our proposal for the new centre. Why? Because we explained how what we were doing would benefit the young people of the borough. So, not all the Council are bastards and to suggest they are is irresponsible, though perhaps politically more convenient.
What we need in Lambeth is a more mature form of representation and politics that seeks to build alliances with people outside our narrow circles. With Cannabis for example, all the effort should be going into convincing local people who a change in the law will benefit them, reducing crime in particular. Instead, it seems to me, the Cannabis festival is more of a self-indulgent celebration of the ganja culture, which for me is more about preaching to the converted than winning new converts.
I used to be a member of the Green Party, until seeing how it was run in Lambeth made me realise my time would be better spent elsewhere. The manifesto is excellent, but I have found that they have problems engaging with ordinary people, which is why even though many people join the Green Party each year, few of them renew their membership.
{personal opinion presented as the council attitude to the Greens removed}
Regarding the council.... I still think it's fair to say that this 'them and us' attitude is of little use in addressing the concerns of the swathes of people 'out-there' whose support is needed if any meaningful change can be brough about.
But maybe it's just easier to smoke a few spliffs in Burgess park, rage against the machne and pretend that it makes a difference.
Steve
First of all, qualified apologies for the all to transparent bitterness towards Shane that comes across in my posts. While TeeJay thinks him a great guy, I (and others I have worked with) have had bad experiences with him.
{edited: so he says, no more Collins slagging allowed}
But my main issue with ... some other people who post on this board, is the never ceasing negativity of many of the comments.
I'm never going to pretend that Lambeth Council is perfect and if the info about the Tory plot to harm Shane and the Lambeth Green Party is true then it deserves to be opposed. However, from my experiences, there are good people working in Lambeth, not necessarily at Councillor level, but certainly in the Regeneration department, who have responded very supportively in our discussions with them.
My main gripe is about representation - that the alternative scene in Brixton and Lambeth does not engage with people who, at first glance, might be considered to be unsympathetic but who can be brought round using the right methods.
The issue of festivals in Lambeth came up at a meeting of the 'Creativce and Cultural Industries Working Group' back in May. The point was made that festivals are a very good way of raising awareness of Lambeth outside of the borough, supporting local business and community groups etc. I mentioned that I didn't think that the Lambeth Country Show was good value for money in these terms, particularly as it was run by an event management company based in Portsmouth. Other members of the community agreed and it was resolved that it should be looked into.
Yes, the machinery is laborious, and it does require a degree of patience and resolve to make any progress, but I am getting tired of how relations between the council and the alternative scene in Lambeth always seem to be characterised by conflict, when this need not be the case.
..... It's much easier to slag off 'The Council' as bastards than to understand why they're doing what they are doing and do something to address their concerns. Of course the 'Council' is not a monolithic institution. Not so long ago, the deputy-chief of the regeneration department told me he used to act as an informal consultant for anti-globalisation groups in Bristol, and proceded to help us with our proposal for the new centre. Why? Because we explained how what we were doing would benefit the young people of the borough. So, not all the Council are bastards and to suggest they are is irresponsible, though perhaps politically more convenient.
What we need in Lambeth is a more mature form of representation and politics that seeks to build alliances with people outside our narrow circles. With Cannabis for example, all the effort should be going into convincing local people who a change in the law will benefit them, reducing crime in particular. Instead, it seems to me, the Cannabis festival is more of a self-indulgent celebration of the ganja culture, which for me is more about preaching to the converted than winning new converts.
I used to be a member of the Green Party, until seeing how it was run in Lambeth made me realise my time would be better spent elsewhere. The manifesto is excellent, but I have found that they have problems engaging with ordinary people, which is why even though many people join the Green Party each year, few of them renew their membership.
{personal opinion presented as the council attitude to the Greens removed}
Regarding the council.... I still think it's fair to say that this 'them and us' attitude is of little use in addressing the concerns of the swathes of people 'out-there' whose support is needed if any meaningful change can be brough about.
But maybe it's just easier to smoke a few spliffs in Burgess park, rage against the machne and pretend that it makes a difference.
Steve
Steve, I agree with you to some extent about not being too negative and about good people in all walks of like. However it as as up to the council to engage with the so-called underground, and the ordinary and the marginal. They have to try to understand too you know. And people do get fed up with being "consulted" by the council and then ignored.
On the subject of Shane. I now know one of the main reasons why you have a personal problem with him and I think you better drop it on here now. You may come across as bitter. I said earlier that I thought this was all getting too personal about him and told people to stop.
Therefore your further comments on Mr Collins have been removed from the above post.
Please do not post any more about him. Thankyou.
On the subject of Shane. I now know one of the main reasons why you have a personal problem with him and I think you better drop it on here now. You may come across as bitter. I said earlier that I thought this was all getting too personal about him and told people to stop.
Therefore your further comments on Mr Collins have been removed from the above post.
Please do not post any more about him. Thankyou.
u75 censorship
shane stands for elections and is a public figure
is all personal criticism of those who seek to govern us unfair ie bush, blair, sharon
or is it just mates of the editor who get this treatment...
big up to steve, i worked on ganja day for 4 years (resigned last year for reasons im happy to outline if you mail me personally) and i know exactly where your coming from
incidentally there is no website for the festival - ccnews is an independant magazine
there used to be a website but the web manager walked off the festival (whod initially started the meetings and the processes that led to the first festival on clapham common in 1999)
as did the publicity team (whod been involved for the last 4 years)
and the march organiser (for the last 2 years)
and the sound system co-ordinators (2 of them from last year refused to have anything to do with the event)
and pretty much the whole cannabis coalition (who set the festival up and invited shane to be a part of it)
oh yeah and the health and safety manager (of the last 4 years)
nothing to do with shane im sure
(but then of course it seems like i wouldnt be allowed to say that on this site anyway)
johnny v (chimaerasound@hotmail.com)
shane stands for elections and is a public figure
is all personal criticism of those who seek to govern us unfair ie bush, blair, sharon
or is it just mates of the editor who get this treatment...
big up to steve, i worked on ganja day for 4 years (resigned last year for reasons im happy to outline if you mail me personally) and i know exactly where your coming from
incidentally there is no website for the festival - ccnews is an independant magazine
there used to be a website but the web manager walked off the festival (whod initially started the meetings and the processes that led to the first festival on clapham common in 1999)
as did the publicity team (whod been involved for the last 4 years)
and the march organiser (for the last 2 years)
and the sound system co-ordinators (2 of them from last year refused to have anything to do with the event)
and pretty much the whole cannabis coalition (who set the festival up and invited shane to be a part of it)
oh yeah and the health and safety manager (of the last 4 years)
nothing to do with shane im sure
(but then of course it seems like i wouldnt be allowed to say that on this site anyway)
johnny v (chimaerasound@hotmail.com)
Steve said:
"Because we explained how what we were doing would benefit the young people of the borough."
And how exactly does it?
"What we need in Lambeth is a more mature form of representation and politics that seeks to build alliances with people outside our narrow circles."
This is a bit pompous and presumptious. Would you like to explain to me who is in my* "narrow circle". Do you know everyone I know then? Speak for yourself.
*or anybody's really.
"Because we explained how what we were doing would benefit the young people of the borough."
And how exactly does it?
"What we need in Lambeth is a more mature form of representation and politics that seeks to build alliances with people outside our narrow circles."
This is a bit pompous and presumptious. Would you like to explain to me who is in my* "narrow circle". Do you know everyone I know then? Speak for yourself.
*or anybody's really.
I'll leave that comment Johnny V, taking into account your views on censorship and "mates of the editor".
But PLEASE keep this discussion more general now. You've both said your piece on Shane Collins.
Please......
(And yeah, maybe there is censorship here occasionally. Any moderator has to use their own discretion. But I did say myself that I don't think the sun shines out of Collin's arse. I think some criticisms of him are legit. I do like him tho and I think that's enough now. If you don't like my decision then tough, it's not up for debate).
But PLEASE keep this discussion more general now. You've both said your piece on Shane Collins.
Please......
(And yeah, maybe there is censorship here occasionally. Any moderator has to use their own discretion. But I did say myself that I don't think the sun shines out of Collin's arse. I think some criticisms of him are legit. I do like him tho and I think that's enough now. If you don't like my decision then tough, it's not up for debate).
steve indigenou
New Member
The Truth is revealed
Thank you Jonny,
at last some truth is emerging.
Hatboy - yes you now know one of the reasons why I have such a profound dislike of Shane but to think that this is the only reason is to make a big mistake. The main reasons are those outlined by Jonny, and the other reason is just another manifestation of the original ones - the tendency to take over other people's dreams and visions and claim them for your own.
Read what Jonny says well, do you think that the Cannabis festival was Shane's idea ? No, loads of other people used to work on the project (I even worked alongside Shane on the pro-cannabis campaign for some time).
Shame on you for your censorship. Shane is an important public figure and should not be shielded from criticism in the way you are doing.
You gonna censor this too ?
Steve
Thank you Jonny,
at last some truth is emerging.
Hatboy - yes you now know one of the reasons why I have such a profound dislike of Shane but to think that this is the only reason is to make a big mistake. The main reasons are those outlined by Jonny, and the other reason is just another manifestation of the original ones - the tendency to take over other people's dreams and visions and claim them for your own.
Read what Jonny says well, do you think that the Cannabis festival was Shane's idea ? No, loads of other people used to work on the project (I even worked alongside Shane on the pro-cannabis campaign for some time).
Shame on you for your censorship. Shane is an important public figure and should not be shielded from criticism in the way you are doing.
You gonna censor this too ?
Steve
Go straight to the top:
Councillor Peter Truesdale (Lib Dem Leader of the Council & Cllr Bishop's Ward)
c/o Lambeth Town Hall, Brixton Hill, SW2 1RW
tel: 020 7582 5798
email: ptruesdale@lambeth.gov.uk
surgery:
* 2nd Wednesday 6.30-7pm Waterloo Action Centre, Baylis Road SE1
* 4th Wednesday 6.30-7pm New Briant TA Room, Ground Floor, Briant House, Hercules Road, SE1
Councillor John Whelan (Conservative Deputy Leader of the Council & Cllr for Thurlow Park Ward)
c/o Members' Room, Lambeth Town Hall, Brixton Hill, SW2 1RW
tel: (020) 8244 9265
fax: (020) 7926 2845
email: jwhelan@lambeth.gov.uk
surgery: * Every Saturday 10.30-12.00 noon, Dulwich and West Norwood Conservative Association, 495 Norwood Road SE27 (020) 8670 0677
* Last Friday of every month, 4.30 pm - 5 pm, Rosendale Road Peabody Estate Office meeting room - (This surgery is the SE24 end of Rosendale Road) - commencing 28th June 2002.
Or maybe write to South London Press? Or both?
Or maybe people can suggest other ideas for protest or lobbying... maybe something that will embaress the people concerned to back off and pick some other issue to entertain themselves with. Obviously this all depends on what you think really motivates these people. Maybe the approach will be different for the Lib Dem people and the Conservatives.
Another tack would be to get someone friendly from the Labour party "opposition" make an issue of this. I'm sure one of them would get a kick out of it ... what with an election year coming up and everything.
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