Black metal that is not politically dodge

[MellySingsDoom]

Never heard about that before - got a source?

Just had a rifle around online, and nothing's coming up so far. I recall reading about this in a magazine aeons ago, hence why I mentioned it here. I think, though, that until I can come up with some online evidence, I'll withdraw the "Bathory are dodge" line for now - want to be sure that there's some actual evidence for this so that others here can come to their own conclusions (will have another online search later on).

 

[TruXta]

Just had a rifle around online, and nothing's coming up so far. I recall reading about this in a magazine aeons ago, hence why I mentioned it here. I think, though, that until I can come up with some online evidence, I'll withdraw the "Bathory are dodge" line for now - want to be sure that there's some actual evidence for this so that others here can come to their own conclusions (will have another online search later on).

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty to suggest Quorthon dabbled with RW imagery and such, and not naively either I reckon. Never heard of him being active in RW milieus tho, but am willing to be corrected on that.

 

[Chick Webb]

Yeah, I'd heard about the Emperor guy. I like to think he was an unimportant member, and therefore it doesn't really count against Emperor. I'd still be wary of giving them money of course. Never heard that about Bathory

 

[Tomvickers666]

here's the list he's come up with for you - i'm sure you'll know many of them already...

This includes bands who I've not known to make any ridiculous political statements. I'm willing to be proven wrong, because in making this list I remembered just how many awesome bands HAVE made ridiculous statements:
Emperor
Enslaved
Negura Bunget
Wolves in the Throne Room
Dragged into Sunlight
Alcest
Ulver
Deathspell Omega
Blut Aus Nord
Immortal (just don't watch their videos)
Arcturus
Windir
Watson
Melechesh
Xasthur
Peste Noire
Year of No Light
Black Witchery
Leviathan
Judas Iscariot
Botanist
Arkhon Infaustus
Absu
Tsjuder
Lantlos
Vlad Tepes

Bands known or strongly rumoured to be idiots, but worth a non-financial investment:

Drudkh
Winterfylleth
Taake
Shining (the Norwegian one)
Mayhem
Darkthrone
Burzum
Mutiilation

Winterfylleth shouldn't be on that list. I've met them and spoken with them before and we share friends. I'm sure one of them has a non-English wife too!

 

[MellySingsDoom]

Winterfylleth shouldn't be on that list. I've met them and spoken with them before and we share friends. I'm sure one of them has a non-English wife too!

Oh look, a first time poster defending said band. This'll be the same Winterfylleth who bang on about "nationalism" endlessly in their lyrics, and who have released albums on Candlelight Records, home to several fascist black metal groups. And also see this utter apologist drivel they come out with in an interview:

“Nationalism is the devotion to the interests or culture of one’s nation, the honouring of its unique sense of cultural and ancestral identity. It does not EVER mean to hate another race of people or their culture. That IS racism. What is wrong with feeling a strong love and a bond for the land and the culture of the nation you are born of? Why is it all of a sudden now that we are made to feel bad for wanting to defend our history? The land that our ancestors have farmed, lived on and defended, our unique architecture and natural landscape, our unique set of cultural customs and folklore, and our unique history and ancestral heritage. None of these things involve hating other races or nations, just the love and care of our own. If we are not to take care of our own, surely we are forsaking our very existence?!”

Do us a favour - go and take your apologism elsewhere, and don't clog up Urban with your nonsense again. Go away.

 

[Tomvickers666]

Oh look, a first time poster defending said band. This'll be the same Winterfylleth who bang on about "nationalism" endlessly in their lyrics, and who have released albums on Candlelight Records, home to several fascist black metal groups. And also see this utter apologist drivel they come out with in an interview:



Do us a favour - go and take your apologism elsewhere, and don't clog up Urban with your nonsense again. Go away.

Oh look, an ignorant sheep replying to my post. Can it with your rude reply, you wannabe elitist prick. I'd like to know how loving your own country is 'racist'? Why is it such a crime to be proud of where you are from, only when you are from England? I've been a fan of Winterfylleth for a long time, and their lyrics are about English heritage, folklore and landscape. How is that in any way racist? My point still stands that the band are good friends with people who aren't English, and one of them has a wife who isn't English - gosh, they are the EPITOME of racism. Oh and I'm sorry I'm not a long standing member of your 'urban group', however that does not eliminate me from having the right to an opinion or a voice. YOU go away, you absolute tool.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

Oh look, an ignorant sheep replying to my post. Can it with your rude reply, you wannabe elitist prick. I'd like to know how loving your own country is 'racist'? Why is it such a crime to be proud of where you are from, only when you are from England? I've been a fan of Winterfylleth for a long time, and their lyrics are about English heritage, folklore and landscape. How is that in any way racist? My point still stands that the band are good friends with people who aren't English, and one of them has a wife who isn't English - gosh, they are the EPITOME of racism. Oh and I'm sorry I'm not a long standing member of your 'urban group', however that does not eliminate me from having the right to an opinion or a voice. YOU go away, you absolute tool.

Look my friend, I'm well aware of the fascist influences within black metal, and of the "dog whiste" lyrics/imagery within said genre. And answer me this: if Winterfylleth are not racist etc, then what on earth are they doing being aligned to a label (Candlelight Records) that have signed openly fascist groups? At the very least, they really, really haven't thought that one through, have they?

Your move, then.

e2a: As regards to the wife thing - fascists in the past have taken e.g Jewish women as their wives, so this idealogical inconsistency doesn't negate from the fact that they're still fascists.

e2a2: Would you care to explain this picture then, my good man? - http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...politically-dodge.316565/page-3#post-12671267

 

[Tomvickers666]

Look my friend, I'm well aware of the fascist influences within black metal, and of the "dog whiste" lyrics/imagery within said genre. And answer me this: if Winterfylleth are not racist etc, then what on earth are they doing being aligned to a label (Candlelight Records) that have signed openly fascist groups? At the very least, they really, really haven't thought that one through, have they?

Your move, then.

e2a: As regards to the wife thing - fascists in the past have taken e.g Jewish women as their wives, so this idealogical inconsistency doesn't negate from the fact that they're still fascists.

I don't know the ins and outs, perhaps it was an ill informed decision to be aligned to such a label; this doesn't automatically mean that they have the same beliefs.

Look my friend, I'm well aware of the fascist influences within black metal, and of the "dog whiste" lyrics/imagery within said genre. And answer me this: if Winterfylleth are not racist etc, then what on earth are they doing being aligned to a label (Candlelight Records) that have signed openly fascist groups? At the very least, they really, really haven't thought that one through, have they?

Your move, then.

e2a: As regards to the wife thing - fascists in the past have taken e.g Jewish women as their wives, so this idealogical inconsistency doesn't negate from the fact that they're still fascists.

e2a2: Would you care to explain this picture then, my good man? - http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...politically-dodge.316565/page-3#post-12671267

I believe that is actually the member with the foreign partner. If he was ACTUALLY racist, I can't imagine he'd publicise it in that manner - it's glaringly obvious that photo wasn't taken in all seriousness. Holding an owl for christs sake?

 

[Delroy Booth]

Look my friend, I'm well aware of the fascist influences within black metal, and of the "dog whiste" lyrics/imagery within said genre. And answer me this: if Winterfylleth are not racist etc, then what on earth are they doing being aligned to a label (Candlelight Records) that have signed openly fascist groups? At the very least, they really, really haven't thought that one through, have they?

Your move, then.

e2a: As regards to the wife thing - fascists in the past have taken e.g Jewish women as their wives, so this idealogical inconsistency doesn't negate from the fact that they're still fascists.

e2a2: Would you care to explain this picture then, my good man? - http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...politically-dodge.316565/page-3#post-12671267

I've got a folder full of pictures of that type with ex and current members of Winterfylleth posing giving nazi salutes, dressing up in nazi uniforms, making racist and anti-semitic comments. It's a few years since but there was a lot of info about their political antics collected together by antifascists in the manchester metal scene who were aware of what they were doing and circulated around and it wouldn't be very hard work to go through them. Now as it happens I'm having a break from this forum at the moment, because I've got other things more important to deal with in my life right now, but if pressed I'd be quite happy to present Tom Vickers a selection of the most damning evidence if he's in any doubt? I would suggest to Tom that he concede his point in good grace and to fuck off from whence he came before this happens.

Of course if he knows them personally he won't be in any doubt - he'll know exactly what their politics are and he's here not to dispute that, infact I think he's probably a fellow traveller who knows full well what they're about. They're sad-act ethno-nationalists with a heavy dose of Hitler-worship thrown in there.

Oh look, an ignorant sheep replying to my post. Can it with your rude reply, you wannabe elitist prick. I'd like to know how loving your own country is 'racist'? Why is it such a crime to be proud of where you are from, only when you are from England? I've been a fan of Winterfylleth for a long time, and their lyrics are about English heritage, folklore and landscape. How is that in any way racist? My point still stands that the band are good friends with people who aren't English, and one of them has a wife who isn't English - gosh, they are the EPITOME of racism. Oh and I'm sorry I'm not a long standing member of your 'urban group', however that does not eliminate me from having the right to an opinion or a voice. YOU go away, you absolute tool.

This has nothing to do with opinion. They were national socialists, as a matter of fact, not opinion. I've met all these individuals at one time or another (although of course they had no idea who I was or what I was doing) and they were quite candid about their politics. They didn't equivocate or hide it when asked by what they presumed was a sympathetic fan - "I'm a national socialist Delroy" they were the exact words that I've heard come from the mouths of both ex and current members of Winterfylleth. Their hilarious and pathetic adolescent sub-Tolkien "celebration" of English landscape folklore and history is a flimsy pretext to cram far-right Blood and Soil themes into their shit dull generic music whilst maintaing the support of a "credible" record label. The irony of course is their knowledge of English history is based on some utterly ahistorical ultra-nationalist fantasy of heraldry and knights and all the other feudal bollocks they've got a fetish for. They're essentially sad, angsty, overgrown teenagers clinging onto a version of English nationalism that's been formed by them having a bit of a stiffy about Heroic Knights of Old and Glorious Flags and so on. Y'know how some of the neo-nazis today are essentially mere uniform fetishists looking for a place to make like-minded friends? They're like that, sad kids who couldn't cope with the world they live in, and seek the protection of a small and isolated counter-cultural sub-group. They're a joke - and one i'd be quite happy to just laugh at if it weren't for the fact one or two of them started getting more seriously involved in far-right political groups in my city a few years ago. That changes things.

The deal with Candlelight records is they keep the Nazism subtle and stick to trying to raise "racial consciousness" (their words) without stepping over into overtly seeking support from the Blood and Honour scene. That's why Chris and Richard got the sack - they'd been getting a following from this crowd and the various venues weren't happy about them just turning up with 50 B&H meatheads wearing swastika t-shirts every time they fucking played. They pushed it too far and didn't understand they were supposed to keep the nazism quiet.

Now you've come here and called everyone "sheep" (yes yes I know were we're all brainwashed by ZOG, thank god you're here to set us all straight with some Troof) then whinged and moaned that your Nazi pals were getting called Nazis. Your evidence? One of them has a non-white wife! hahahaha! All this tells me is that in the national socialist black metal scene, a scene dominated by angsty virginal socially outcast young men in their early-to-mid 20's, would be willing to flush their Racial Principles down the toilet in a heartbeat if it meant they could experience what kissing a real life girl felt like. Nothing more.

Simon Lucas is a stupid fucking twat. I don't care who he's married too. He's in a racist metal band. As for his non-white wife, I don't care what sort of mental gymnastics he has to play with himself to justify it (the winterfylleth position was that miscegenation was a "sin" last I heard) but it proves absolutely fuck all about his politics.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

I don't know the ins and outs, perhaps it was an ill informed decision to be aligned to such a label; this doesn't automatically mean that they have the same beliefs.


I believe that is actually the member with the foreign partner. If he was ACTUALLY racist, I can't imagine he'd publicise it in that manner - it's glaringly obvious that photo wasn't taken in all seriousness. Holding an owl for christs sake?

Point 1: Unfortunately, any band who chooses to align themselves with a label promoting fascist bands are frankly little better than said fascist groups themselves - this is a clear case as any of that "guilt by association" canard.

Point 2: Of course it's a "joke" photo. And I'm the king of Belgium. Anyone who thinks it's "great" to have a photo taken of them doing a fascist salute is a fuckwit of the highest order, to say the least. And given the form of said band, I'm inclined to believe it wasn't a joke picture either.

Your move.

PS: Re your earlier point - this is not a "free speech" forum. If you check the FAQs, you'll find this:

Behaviour. We're happy to host lively and robust debate but racists, bullies, sexist oafs, bigots and general all-round irritating arses are not welcome on these boards. Over the top swearing, endless personal attacks and needlessly disruptive conduct is not permitted and posters who continue such behaviour after being asked to stop will be banned. Threads that descend into personal insult-a-thons will be binned.

Any poster esposing fascist, racist, homophobic etc views gets hit with the immediate banhammer. And fascist and racist apologists get very short shrift round these parts too.

You're really going to have to up your game if you want to continue to defend a band that are, I'm afraid to say, fascist.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

..and there's more - Delroy has absolutely nailed this fascist group on the lyrics front - just take a look at this "blood and soil" fash-fest from the "song" "Defending The Realm":

If you find yourself,
On the tip of an enemy sword,
Pull them close to you,
Look into their eyes and laugh,

Look to the future,
See they, children of the Engla,
Blood of the Land

For a drop of blood,
That falleth to soil,
Means you will live,
In the Land that you love,
Forever!

You will look back,
Be among ancestors,
The Fathers of Albion

And for some openly racist wank-drivel? Try out "An Englishman's Verse" for size:

Stretch forth! Stretch forth! From the south to the north,
From the east to the west, stretch forth! Stretch forth!
Strengthen thy stakes, and lengthen thy cords,
The world is a tent for the world's true lords!

England sowed the glorious seed,
In her wise old laws, and her pure old creed,
And her stout old heart, and her plain old tongue,
And her resolute energies, ever young!

Feebly dwindling day by day,
All other races are fading away;

The sensual South, and the servile East,
And the tottering throne of the treacherous priest!

Englishmen everywhere! Brethren all!
By one great name on your millions I call,
Norman, Saxon, Gael, and Celt,
Into this fine mixed mass ye melt,

Englishmen everywhere! Faithful and free!
Lords of the land, and knights of the sea,
Anglo-Saxons! Honest and true,
By hundreds of millions my word is to you,

Love one another! As brothers embrace!
That the World may be blest in the Saxon ways!

I could go on all day with this - and will doubtlessly do so when Tom Vickers comes back here for round 23.

Again - your move, fascist fanboy.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

I thought they were alright since I've seen them mentioned quite a bit in Terroriser, and that mag generally disparages out and proud nazis. Oh well.

Unfortunately said mag has certain blind spots in this regard, to say the least - look who "graces" the cover on the April 2010 edition of Terrorizer mag:

 

[Chick Webb]

And by that like, I mean UNLIKE, Melly.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

And by that like, I mean UNLIKE, Melly.

I hear you there, Chick W

(sorry for mis-spelling your name earlier on, Chick - my bad)

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

This has not been mentioned yet. Crossover Norwegian Black metal / rock, from the self titled 2010 album. One of the best albums i ever heard of any genre.

 

[Chick Webb]

I just got word today that Gorgoroth are playing in April. I'd like to go see them, but it's quite possible that the gig will be a smorgasbord of dodge. I want to go, but I see the disapproving faces of animal rights friends from my past when I think of going. I suppose now in the age of the smartphone they're not going to do anything too terrible onstage as regards farm animals. But that just makes me think they might find other ways of being shocking that I might find even more unpleasant than splashing a bit of blood around. Oh metal, you cruel mistress.

 

[Chick Webb]

This has not been mentioned yet. Crossover Norwegian Black metal / rock, from the self titled 2010 album.

Thanks Boz. I will let you know what I think after my (long) commute tomorrow. If I get into these, how am I to pronounce their name?

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Save up for this? http://copenhell.dk/line-up/

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

hahaha. let me check my vinyl there might be a download code for the album.

Pronounced ka veil ler tak it means stranglehold.

 

[Chick Webb]

Ohhh.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Nope sorry, weirdly there isn't. You'll end up buying it anyway.

 

[Chick Webb]

Pronounced ka veil ler tak it means stranglehold.

Dude, good call. They're REALLY good. The groovy vibe is suiting my headspace at the moment.

I soulseeked them, but don't worry, I like them so I'll give them money. I really like that second song on the album "Working Class - na na na na naaa! Working Class!" Yeah, I know they're not really singing in English.

 

[Riklet]

What about imortal?

Best vids evarrr.

 

[Chick Webb]

Example, Riklet!

 

[Chick Webb]

It's not black metal, but if a nazi can derail my thread, then I can derail my thread. (Gah, I swore I'd stop coming on here after a bag of cans)

Working class!
Na na na na
Na na na na
Na na na na
Working Class!

 

[Chick Webb]

What about imortal?

Best vids evarrr.

We need specimens

 

[TruXta]

Kvelertak is great, but it's a million miles away from black metal. More a Turboneger mk. 2 without the silly pretend fashion shit.

 

[Riklet]

none comes close in awesomeness. no idea about their politics.

this is a better song btw.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

One to add to the (potential) although we all know what that means, politically dodge list. Bölzer. Shame, as they're making some of the most distinctive black/death about.

see this interview

STEREOGUM: I have one more question. I wanted to talk about your tattoos, specifically the swastikas and sunwheels. I know you and I know what you’re about, but not everyone who sees you play has that background. I want to just get it all out there before anyone sees a picture of you and makes assumptions. So. What’s up with the swastikas?
KzR: Please, I’m very happy you asked me because only a few people have asked me in interviews and I’m more than happy to tell people because I don’t want to be misunderstood. My sunwheels, my swastikas, my whatever you call them, it’s an ancient symbol used by basically every culture on this planet at some time or another for more or less the same reason, to express their adoration for the sun, the solar power. Most of them were sun-worshipping peoples, or held respect for the balance of the sun. It’s also a lunar symbol in itself for the sun cultures. Its right or left form reversed is a lunar symbol, too, and it’s a female as well as a male symbol; it represents a lot of different energies. It’s a continuum, it can be a destructive force, it takes a lot of natural philosophies into one. If you read about it, it’s really fascinating.

Atavistic resurgence-esque shite.

And this critical commentary on the aforementioned interview

 

[ouchmonkey]

that's these clowns right?
I'm not completely convinced thay aren't taking the piss