Another Malaysian airliner crashed in Ukraine
- Thread starter Fingers
- Start date
Idris2002
cavalcade of hubris
You've just had your sorry ass handed to you in a sling by people who know what they're talking about.
This is the part where you say "it's a fair cop, guv, you got me bang to rights, I'll come quietly."
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Not a chance. There is nothing that could be argued,nothing that could be discovered that would lead to that happening. Because it's not about the actual events. Think the Katyn model of denial and how it operated until 1990.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
DownwardDog
Riding a Brompton with a power meter.
CR had nothing to do with the photo stuff that 2hats debunked, afaics.
CR gets flogged for all misdeeds of the Putin regime. That's just how this works. Enjoy it, it's quite funny.
Idris2002
cavalcade of hubris
Next on Alan Partridge's Sex People:
City in Ukraine Tied to Masochism Finds Link Painful, Sure, but Some Like It
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/15/w...-link-painful-sure-but-some-like-it.html?_r=0
Idris2002
cavalcade of hubris
Post 704:
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...ashed-in-ukraine.325748/page-26#post-13335736
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
go fuck yourself you sorry limey asslicker...that link had nothing to do with me...zero..fuck all....cackling away alongside that shower of uberliberal limey cosmopolitan Russian hating shit on this dying..f not dead... forum that actively chases posters away
fuck of
incisive debate etc..yeah right
heres were you are right now....following me around several threads ridiculing me for posts i never even made.... as spymaster pointed out ...while a bunch of wankers openly all me a neo Nazi..openly call me a fascist and a Nazi..... with not one word from you except sniping about posts i never even made
cheerleading for that sorry agenda on this dying forum...cocksucker
fuck the fuck off
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
that has eff all to do with the bandwagon you just jumped on you cocksucker.....sorry...disingenuous opportunist limey asslicking cocksucker
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
works both ways cocksucker
seventh bullet
sovietwave
I guess you're going to put him on ignore, eh?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Gee, I wonder why people think you're a homophobic Stalinist moron? Must be other people, can't be you can it?
Idris2002
cavalcade of hubris
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Idris2002
cavalcade of hubris
Torturing kids? I'm not sure that he's that bad. But the rest of what you said is a cap that fits, alright.
2hats
Dust.
The Dutch Safety Board (OVV) has reported that the recovery of wreckage (all that would be useful to the investigation) from the crash site(s) has now been completed and the material is in the process of being shipped to the Netherlands from Kharkiv where it has been temporarily stored during this phase.
2hats
Dust.
Some interesting information which tends to raise a question about some of the aforementioned Russian MoD satellite imagery. This was presented with the suggestion that a Buk launcher had been repositioned from a Ukrainian air force base by 17 July (having been there on 14 July) - the item indicated at the lower centre:
However Digitalglobe (Google) imagery of the same location months before and after 17 July suggest that the item in question was parked up there at some point in April/May 2014 and subsequently did not move (even the upper platform has been left in the same orientation for many months):
(you can check it yourself in Google Earth).
A (high quality, geolocated) photograph of what is likely the same equipment was apparently taken by/before 8 August (date of first appearance of the image):
which would tend to suggest it had been abandoned there, damaged, for some time.
However Digitalglobe (Google) imagery of the same location months before and after 17 July suggest that the item in question was parked up there at some point in April/May 2014 and subsequently did not move (even the upper platform has been left in the same orientation for many months):
(you can check it yourself in Google Earth).
A (high quality, geolocated) photograph of what is likely the same equipment was apparently taken by/before 8 August (date of first appearance of the image):
which would tend to suggest it had been abandoned there, damaged, for some time.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
New MH17 photos suggest surface-to-air missile launch by separatists
And an interview. Not sure if these are the pics referred to.
And an interview. Not sure if these are the pics referred to.
2hats
Dust.
They are high resolution versions of ones that have previously been released plus additional photos (a couple of those in that interview included). Analysis here (in Dutch). The analysis (conducted by earth observation specialists, commissioned by RTL News, full PDF here) comes to much the same conclusion as that of others that has been described previously. Interesting to note the apparent attempt to plough in the scorched area of the field used for launch (visited by a Telegraph journalist a few days after the event) and evidence of an attempt to contain an original crop fire.
2hats
Dust.
Strangely, within 24 hours of RTLnews publishing those articles on the report, eyewitness interview and new photos indicating a SAM launch, Russian news media (again) claims (*) that MH17 was shot down by an Ukrainian Air Force Su-25, this time piloted by Captain Vladislav Voloshin (as opposed to Ukrainian Air Force Lt. Col. Dmytro Yakatsuts who was named in a Russian TV documentary as the suspect Su-25 pilot last month). Interview with an air force base 'witness' (must be true, 'lie detector' says so...):
Presumably he'll be happy to provide evidence direct to the Dutch criminal investigation (who are reported to now be in possession of the original photos and camera used to take the missile plume photos above; that witness is also reported to have been interviewed at length by international crash investigation commission members).
e2a: the same esteemed organ that had published, only a couple of days before, a detailed claim that MH17 was finally brought down by a bomb on board, including offering analysis that the damage to the aircraft debris was inconsistent with 30mm cannon fire.
Presumably he'll be happy to provide evidence direct to the Dutch criminal investigation (who are reported to now be in possession of the original photos and camera used to take the missile plume photos above; that witness is also reported to have been interviewed at length by international crash investigation commission members).
e2a: the same esteemed organ that had published, only a couple of days before, a detailed claim that MH17 was finally brought down by a bomb on board, including offering analysis that the damage to the aircraft debris was inconsistent with 30mm cannon fire.
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2hats
Dust.
A couple of other recent developments:
Tests, including CT scans have identified foreign metallic objects (not originating from the aircraft) embedded in some victims. Work is underway to analyse these and identify them.
Da Telegraaf reports that the US has provided all relevant data it has (AWACS and satellite) to the Dutch investigating authorities and ICAO.
The head of the Dutch criminal investigation, Fred Westerbeke, has stated that it will take at least a year to complete. He confirmed that the main focus of the investigation is on the Buk missile, though they are open to the possibility of it having been downed by some other weapon. He stated that the prosecuting authorities have much more information than has currently been released to the public.
Some parties are suggesting that the Dutch Safety Board will issue a progress report at the end of 2014 (based on comments that were made back in September).
Tests, including CT scans have identified foreign metallic objects (not originating from the aircraft) embedded in some victims. Work is underway to analyse these and identify them.
Da Telegraaf reports that the US has provided all relevant data it has (AWACS and satellite) to the Dutch investigating authorities and ICAO.
The head of the Dutch criminal investigation, Fred Westerbeke, has stated that it will take at least a year to complete. He confirmed that the main focus of the investigation is on the Buk missile, though they are open to the possibility of it having been downed by some other weapon. He stated that the prosecuting authorities have much more information than has currently been released to the public.
Some parties are suggesting that the Dutch Safety Board will issue a progress report at the end of 2014 (based on comments that were made back in September).
2hats
Dust.
Various media report that the relatives of the deceased (along with journalists) were allowed to view the remains of the aircraft (minus the portions around the cockpit of most relevance to the investigation) that have been collected in a hangar at the Gilze-Rijen military air base in the Netherlands.
The Dutch safety board is reassembling the cockpit area separately as a key part of the accident investigation which should issue a final report in October.
The Dutch broadcaster NOS has claimed that the criminal investigation is being hampered by the Dutch security services withholding information due to a lack of political will to bring the perpetrators to justice (this has officially been denied). The broadcaster goes on to claim (via sources within the inquiry team) that the criminal investigation "research findings point in one direction. That the MH17 was brought down by a Buk missile, which was fired from a Russian installation most likely by Russian military". They also claim that there is strong evidence that the Russian secret service is trying to break into the computer systems of the police investigators as well as smartphones and laptops that are used in Ukraine.
e2a: The chairman of the Dutch safety board told RTL Nieuws that parts of the cockpit are still in the Ukraine and they are looking to retrieve them.
The Dutch safety board is reassembling the cockpit area separately as a key part of the accident investigation which should issue a final report in October.
The Dutch broadcaster NOS has claimed that the criminal investigation is being hampered by the Dutch security services withholding information due to a lack of political will to bring the perpetrators to justice (this has officially been denied). The broadcaster goes on to claim (via sources within the inquiry team) that the criminal investigation "research findings point in one direction. That the MH17 was brought down by a Buk missile, which was fired from a Russian installation most likely by Russian military". They also claim that there is strong evidence that the Russian secret service is trying to break into the computer systems of the police investigators as well as smartphones and laptops that are used in Ukraine.
e2a: The chairman of the Dutch safety board told RTL Nieuws that parts of the cockpit are still in the Ukraine and they are looking to retrieve them.
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2hats
Dust.
Worth noting (if hardly revelatory): In an interview published today (Süddeutsche Zeitung, ARD), Vladimir Babak, the Su-25 chief designer, stated that (no variant of) his plane was capable of downing MH17. He "also considers it impossible that other warplanes shot down the machine" (in that the results are not consistent with air-to-air missile attacks on large aircraft). He went on to say that he suspects that the Boeing was shot down by a surface to air missile - "Buk - I can not imagine anything else."
The former relates to Argentinian Junta apologism I think?
Maurice Picarda
Actually, might as well flounce.
So, when, finally, the Dutch official body confirms the obvious and fingers Putin's irregulars, what happens? Sanctions? Reprimands? Expulsion of diplomats?
I thought the finger of blame had long pointed towards the airline directing the civilian jet over a war zone to maintain profits. There's rules in war regarding attacking civilians although I think it pertains to whatever States are signed up which wouldn't include guerrillas, even by proxy, and im not sure it applies when they voluntarily put themselves in harm's way.
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