Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[weepiper]

We obviously don't work because we post shit to the internet all day where as Laurie Penny...

...gets paid to post shit to the internet all day

 

[equationgirl]

can we get some idea of whence he came? From money I bet

Palo Alto is a private town, a wealthy enclave if you will, so he's upper-middle class for sure.

 

[Nice one]

If we just accept that radical or emancipatory politics is just a scene where the likes of Harris and co can indulge their vanity, then the hard work of building a mass movement, embedded in the everyday experience of millions of people, will become much harder. It's right to kick back against this. If Malcolm Harris and Laurie Penny are the people who become, by virtue of their own egomania, drive, ambition, vanity, elite education and background, the public faces of the "Radical Left" then we're fucked. You couldn't wish for more obnoxious people, ripe for parody and who invite derision with every utterance, to alienate what little good will exists amonst the public for left politics.

Which left politics? What about class politics? Or to put it another way, the mass of working class people.

Do you really think ordinary working class people give two shits either way as to what these people have to say for themselves? I think you're giving them way, way too much credit and status way beyond their actual impact and influence.

 

[J Ed]

https://twitter.com/ShareefaEnergy/status/328587781335027712

Not a good week on the old twitter for LP

Also her hesitant use of the acronym JOC is vomit-inducing

 

[SpineyNorman]

Which left politics? What about class politics? Or to put it another way, the mass of working class people.

Do you really think ordinary working class people give two shits either way as to what these people have to say for themselves? I think you're giving them way, way too much credit and status way beyond their actual impact and influence.

Butchers has already dealt with that one but since you've almost certainly not bothered reading the last few pages, and instead decided save time by jumping to the end to continue with the tired old crap about how we're all wasting our time (along with the implication that you're above all that kind of thing) I'll quote it for you.

They are the sort of people who would consider it devilishly delightful to argue in the antebellum US that slavery must be preserved because it was the clearest demonstration possible of the unfree nature of that society. And once that's done, onto the next petty verbal provocation. As such these people are easily seen through by the wider class (esp that politically (formally) part of it, and have no social weight - are not really relevant.

But before someone replies if they have no social weight then why are you going on about them? If they don't matter then wtf are you on about? It must be remembered that it's their ideas that have no social weight , their arguments. The role they play in putting people off this public-left is very very real though, that's where they have some social weight (even if negatively from our perspective). The two are part of one rotten whole. Their ideas have to be idiotic, self-centred and socially meaningless if they're going to be able to play this second role of alienating people from active political participation.

 

[Nice one]

Butchers has already dealt with that one but since you've almost certainly not bothered reading the last few pages, and instead decided save time by jumping to the end to continue with the tired old crap about how we're all wasting our time (along with the implication that you're above all that kind of thing) I'll quote it for you.

yes i read that. "Alienating people from active political participation". How are the mass of working class people alienated from active political participation by what laurie penny says about stuff. And what does that say about working class people if that was the case?

 

[agricola]

If I was a reporter I'd be pissed off at her rank laziness as she is a bit of a dirty mark on an already sullied profession. Horrible woman.

Thats a bit much, huge swathes of the profession in question are so covered in filth right now because of the way that they have behaved that the amusing musings of LP arent going to make the slightest impression.

Though then again, one of her latest tweets about wanting a programme that converts audio files into text should hopefully provoke some kind of neo-Luddite response.

 

[weepiper]

yes i read that. "Alienating people from active political participation". How are the mass of working class people alienated from active political participation by what laurie penny says about stuff.

By seeing her and her private school mates and their endless wanking on about things of no relevance to our lives and thinking 'if that's lefty politics it's not for the likes of me'.

 

[SpineyNorman]

yes i read that. "Alienating people from active political participation". How are the mass of working class people alienated from active political participation by what laurie penny says about stuff. And what does that say about working class people if that was the case?

In the same way as I'm put off from getting involved in anything she's anywhere near. But absent any experience of left politics it's easy to see how people could be put off the whole lot. Which would seem to me to be a perfectly sensible reaction.

 

[Nice one]

By seeing her and her private school mates and their endless wanking on about things of no relevance to our lives and thinking 'if that's lefty politics it's not for the likes of me'.

In the same way as I'm put off from getting involved in anything she's anywhere near. But absent any experience of left politics it's easy to see how people could be put off the whole lot. Which would seem to me to be a perfectly sensible reaction.

but that wasn't what was said. "Alienating people from active political participation" is what was said. How is laurie penny alienating working class people from active political participation?

 

[SpineyNorman]

Have a think about it. It's really not that hard if you put your mind to it - I'm sure even you can manage it.

 

[Treacle Toes]

but that wasn't what was said. "Alienating people from active political participation" is what was said. How is laurie penny alienating working class people from active political participation?

By pretending she's 'working class'?

Dishonesty and exploitation, masquerading as self-awareness.

 

[agricola]

By pretending she's working class?

Dishonesty and exploitation, masquerading as self-awareness.

Perhaps, though this thread is by far and away the most replied to and viewed on this subforum - perhaps people would get involved just to enjoy the show?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Perhaps, though this thread is by far and away the most replied to and viewed on this subforum - perhaps people would get involved just to enjoy the show?

For sure there is an element of that. I stand by my response to that question all the same.

 

[Firky]

Thats a bit much, huge swathes of the profession in question are so covered in filth right now because of the way that they have behaved that the amusing musings of LP arent going to make the slightest impression.

Though then again, one of her latest tweets about wanting a programme that converts audio files into text should hopefully provoke some kind of neo-Luddite response.

Fair point. I was talking about a personal response - I know it is unfair of me to call her a stain and that Laurie and her mates aren't really that well known outside of this thread*. Yet I can't but help think that Laurie does think of herself of some kind of pioneer of left wing journalism, that she believes that she is better than the rest and it gets up my nose. More than it should do, I really shouldn't get wound up by her but I can't help it; she does not speak for me or anyone that I empathise wiht. How damaging she is to the left is open for debate but I can't relate to her.

*Owen Jones however is quite a memorable, once you've seen him at his best you're unlikely to forget him no matter what side of the fence you sit on. People seem to remember him for what he said where as people seem to remember Laurie Penny for having a squeaky voice.

 

[J Ed]

but that wasn't what was said. "Alienating people from active political participation" is what was said. How is laurie penny alienating working class people from active political participation?

Laurie Penny persona, intentional or not, is basically the caricature of a middle-class know-it-all lefty who is contemptuous of the actual working-class. This caricature is disseminated through the right-wing media, and it has some elements of truth to it, but usually not that much - because of this dissemination this caricature has been firmly established in popular consciousness so when they are confronted by the personification of this caricature in Laurie Penny at an event, in an article or by association or whatever then whatever she is associated with immediately loses credibility and by extension so does the political left.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Though then again, one of her latest tweets about wanting a programme that converts audio files into text should hopefully provoke some kind of neo-Luddite response.

I always imagined that she outsourced her transcriptions to up-and-coming JOCs for cents on the dollar via Elance or whatnot.

 

[J Ed]

You gotta monetize your hot JOCs

 

[Nylock]

Although i imagine it would be (briefly) entertaining for Malcolm Harris to post on this thread, i can't help but think he will get up to the same shenanigans as LP has but with his own twist: Selectively misquoting posters, disingenuously replying to those who he perceives as being 'sympathetic' to him, accusing the female posters of misogyny, accusing everyone else of failing to check their privilege, posting various 'ironic' photos of select moments from the glorious revolutionary war and generally not answering a single fucking critique of his oeuvre. It'll be like watching someone chuck a mento into a bottle of coke -the post count will go through the roof and it'll generally get quite messy.

I totally agree with butcher's post regarding the likes of him and his ilk and their role in dissuading us normals from getting involved in left wing politics and how we ought to kick back against this vapidity. Trouble is, MH's contribution to this thread will be both fleeting and disruptive before he runs back to twitter laughing up his sleeve with a bunch of stuff that he can then use in subsequent $5k-a-go talking shops...

It's tragic to think that whatever positive 'legacy' the occupy movement may have had in terms of networks and ideas for future action has largely drowned in a stinking morass of conspiraloonery, sickening headlines concerning sexual predation by people involved and the smug profiteering of dissent by shameless carpet-baggers like Harris. The greater tragedy being that he will dine out off the back of this for the rest of his natural...

 

[agricola]

Although i imagine it would be (briefly) entertaining for Malcolm Harris to post on this thread, i can't help but think he will get up to the same shenanigans as LP has but with his own twist: Selectively misquoting posters, disingenuously replying to those who he perceives as being 'sympathetic' to him, accusing the female posters of misogyny, accusing everyone else of failing to check their privilege, posting various 'ironic' photos of select moments from the glorious revolutionary war and generally not answering a single fucking critique of his oeuvre. It'll be like watching someone chuck a mento into a bottle of coke -the post count will go through the roof and it'll generally get quite messy.

I totally agree with butcher's post regarding the likes of him and his ilk and their role in dissuading us normals from getting involved in left wing politics and how we ought to kick back against this vapidity. Trouble is, MH's contribution to this thread will be both fleeting and disruptive before he runs back to twitter laughing up his sleeve with a bunch of stuff that he can then use in subsequent $5k-a-go talking shops...

It's tragic to think that whatever positive 'legacy' the occupy movement may have had in terms of networks and ideas for future action has largely drowned in a stinking morass of conspiraloonery, sickening headlines concerning sexual predation by people involved and the smug profiteering of dissent by shameless carpet-baggers like Harris. The greater tragedy being that he will dine out off the back of this for the rest of his natural...

This is an argument for us all to go to a Justin Bieber fansite, pose as fourteen year olds, mention Malcolm Harris and see if he turns up isnt it?

 

[Firky]

Laurie Penny steps in to defend Malcolm Harris whilst still maintaining she's better than us.

https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/328678224643108867

Laurie Penny ‏@PennyRed
@BigMeanInternet @Firky just ignore them babe. They're convinced they're somehow 'the real left'. So many more effective w/c activists.

 

[JimW]

Malcolm Harris ‏@BigMeanInternet
@ Firky no I didn't support Rahm Emmanuel against the teachers union, no I never received any $ to talk about Occupy, no I'm not a fascist

Never received any money = asked, because I am a grasping cunt parasiting off others' struggles; never got any, because even the bourgeois pricks who book these things can see right through me.

Looking forward to LP listing all those effective working class activists she knows. Bet they all love her too. Imaginary friends are the most steadfast.

 

[seventh bullet]

Christ on a bike.

When it comes to class experience and perceptions of others though, I would struggle to think of one person I know who has heard of her, and I know PFWC people. If they did they would be put off, I'm sure. I fear they'd also be put off by those who are sincerely 'active' in radical politics as well.

I remember danny la rouge (I think) coming out with an anecdote about a May Day march up in Scotland a while ago, and how after that experience he declined to go on any others. A group of working class women was stood on the pavement witnessing the march, and through their mockery were defining themselves outside of what it represented, laughing among themselves and saying the marchers weren't workers but a load of hippies.

 

[phildwyer]

i can't help but like that, one scumbag reprobate to another.

Well tbf, quite a lot of working-class people would agree with you there.

Quite a lot of such people would regard many of those posting on this thread as ultra-radical, quasi-criminal headbangers (or "scumbag reprobates" as you put it), and as precisely the kind of folk they warn their children against becoming involved with. Most such people would prefer Laurie Penny over youse lot if push ever came to shove.

 

[DotCommunist]

quasi is all I can manage these mornings. Once, once were the days...

 

[JimW]

Quasi name, quasi guy.

 

[phildwyer]

quasi is all I can manage these mornings.

Unlike some I could mention then.

Christ look at the time...

 

[weepiper]

Laurie Penny steps in to defend Malcolm Harris whilst still maintaining she's better than us.

https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/328678224643108867

'Babe'
:vomit:

 

[chilango]

Laurie Penny steps in to defend Malcolm Harris whilst still maintaining she's better than us.

https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/328678224643108867

Perfect.

They really don't see how this is panning out do they?

 

[cesare]

Perfect.

They really don't see how this is panning out do they?

I suspect they don't really care.