5 Cyclists dead in 1 week in London

[littlebabyjesus]

Why are people in a hurry? Lorry drivers are put under pressure by their bosses to deliver more quickly to make their bosses more money. Couriers also are under pressure to deliver quickly to make themselves more money.

Coop raised the question earlier. In London at least, the question has to be asked: whose interests take preference in the running of the streets? Livingstone went some way towards representing the interests of someone other than the private motorist, whether car or freight, but we're still a very long way off a situation where the interests of the majority come first. The basic assumption of the driver that they can go where they want when they want is quite ingrained in our society, I think, and that is something that has to be changed.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It'd be interesting to hear their side because sadly were unable to ask the cyclist.

TBH I'm more interested in hearing what their bosses have to say for themselves.

 

[RedDragon]

TBH I'm more interested in hearing what their bosses have to say for themselves.

The bits I do hear is just what a dreadful mess the industry is in.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I have sympathy with the drivers, even if they were at fault. Almost especially if they were at fault - that is a terrible thing to have to live with.

But any boss who is at fault - for not providing adequate lorries or pressuring drivers to hurry up - they get no sympathy from me. Drag them over the coals.

 

[Sue]

The basic assumption of the driver that they can go where they want when they want... [snip]

Unforunately, a significant minority of cyclists seem to feel the same going by my experiences as a pedestrian.

 

[equationgirl]

They are in a hurry though and people are natural risk takers

And how much time do they really save by barrelling through pedestrians crossing at a green man, instead of waiting for a few seconds or so?

Why should my likelihood of being hurt increase because someone wants to risk running a red?

 

[fredfelt]

After the police spent today stopping cyclists today to chat with them about wearing helmets and high viz perhaps the police could pull over some cars and lorries.

"Excuse me sir, you've done nothing wrong but would you be so kind to look out for cyclists?"

I wonder how well that would go down.

 

[co-op]

But it happens.

So everyone else needs to be aware that it happens, and fuck off out of the way.

Not a question of blame: a question of staying alive.

Absolutely not arguing with this - I have been a London cyclist since the 1970s when you practically used to stop and talk to another cyclist if you saw one. I'm just arguing with the presumption that 'blind spots' are this Act of God that no one can do anything about: it was being made by a poster who was trying to claim that 'we' are all defaulting to an anti-lorry position when he was obviously unaware of how his default was pro-lorry.

 

[co-op]

After the police spent today stopping cyclists today to chat with them about wearing helmets and high viz perhaps the police could pull over some cars and lorries.

"Excuse me sir, you've done nothing wrong but would you be so kind to look out for cyclists?"

I wonder how well that would go down.

Woe betide the policeman who stops me on a bike to hand out advice - I get right on my soapbox about non-enforcement of speed limits by the police etc. I got pulled for jumping a red light on the Vauxhall gyratory once and ended up giving them a such a lecture about exactly why it was the safest way through that they walked off mid rant, wish I'd had it on camera. The words all came out right but also the cars coming round the corner kept doing exactly what I said they would - including jumping the lights of course. Kind of undermined their position.

 

[Winot]

After the police spent today stopping cyclists today to chat with them about wearing helmets and high viz perhaps the police could pull over some cars and lorries.

"Excuse me sir, you've done nothing wrong but would you be so kind to look out for cyclists?"

I wonder how well that would go down.

They were stopping cyclists *and* lorries on the same day for exactly this reason:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/hgv-drivers-caught-in-bike-safety-operation-8946997.html

Chief Superintendent Glyn Jones, of Traffic Command, said: “The advantage of stopping both cyclists and lorry drivers in sight of one another is that quite often when you stop one, they complain the other hasn’t been stopped and vice versa. If we can target this effort during the rush hour, it will help things a lot as this is when the majority of cyclists are killed.”

 

[gentlegreen]

Boris wants cycling with headphones banned.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/19/boris-johnson-considers-banning-cyclists-headphones

Because all the middle-aged cyclists who were killed were wearing them were they ?
And jumping red lights ?

I bet they were all wearing helmets and hi-viz too....

 

[T & P]

After the police spent today stopping cyclists today to chat with them about wearing helmets and high viz perhaps the police could pull over some cars and lorries.

"Excuse me sir, you've done nothing wrong but would you be so kind to look out for cyclists?"

I wonder how well that would go down.

I'm a driver and I think that would be a great idea- not in those very words perhaps, but some advice/ reinforcement about checking around them, in particular when turning at junctions, would be great, and does not need to be patronising.

Then again I'm also a cyclist, so I'm perhaps more concious than non-cycling drivers about the importance of driving carefully and looking out for cyclists.

 

[Utopia]

Boris wants cycling with headphones banned.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/19/boris-johnson-considers-banning-cyclists-headphones

Because all the middle-aged cyclists who were killed were wearing them were they ?
And jumping red lights ?

I bet they were all wearing helmets and hi-viz too....

He's got a point on the dangers of wearing headphones whilst cycling in built up traffic though, a really stupid, reckless thing to do IMO.

 

[gentlegreen]

He's got a point on the dangers of wearing headphones whilst cycling in built up traffic though, a really stupid, reckless thing to do IMO.

But how many actual serious accidents can be attributed to their use ?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

He's got a point on the dangers of wearing headphones whilst cycling in built up traffic though, a really stupid, reckless thing to do IMO.

Perhaps, but utterly irrelevant to the recent deaths, which, let us remember, were caused by collisions with either a lorry, a bus or a coach. That article goes on to talk about a copper telling cyclists to take more care. The whole thrust of the response is to tell cyclists to take more care.

This is not dealing with the problem. It is avoiding the problem. A raft of new measures regulating cyclists will be brought in, and the killings will continue.

 

[gentlegreen]

Not that I'm hugely worried because I live out in the sticks and see about one plastic copper every 6 months and our chief constable is more sensible than that - but my headphones are over-ear - I may have to spray them to match my skin tone / grey hair.

 

[RedDragon]

Re: Boris headphones, It came up during one of his regular interviews with Feltz on Radio London, she bulldozed him into saying it - he also thought pedestrians shouldn't wear them or use their 'iPhones', the guy is a joke.

 

[fredfelt]

I'm a driver and I think that would be a great idea- not in those very words perhaps, but some advice/ reinforcement about checking around them, in particular when turning at junctions, would be great, and does not need to be patronising.

Then again I'm also a cyclist, so I'm perhaps more concious than non-cycling drivers about the importance of driving carefully and looking out for cyclists.

Perhaps it is a good idea to offer this advice.

I think I'm resistant to the idea as there's only so many people you can talk to - and it seems like these kind of actions may well be done as an excuse to obscure the real issue. One which requires a vision, commitment and plenty of cash to solve.

On the subject of cheap, headline grabbing exercises to show that 'something is being done' I note gg post about Boris and heeadphones.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Perhaps it is a good idea to offer this advice.

I think I'm resistant to the idea as there's only so many people you can talk to - and it seems like these kind of actions may well be done as an excuse to obscure the real issue. One which requires a vision, commitment and plenty of cash to solve.

On the subject of cheap, headline grabbing exercises to show that 'something is being done' I note gg post about Boris and heeadphones.

Not so much cash necessarily. How much would it cost to ban lorries from central London during the rush hour and install new traffic lights that give cyclists a head-start? Those two measures combined would make a massive difference.

 

[editor]

It was linked earlier up the thread but I am so angry about this:

"More than half of the lorry drivers stopped by police in a cycle safety operation this morning were found to be breaking HGV safety rules.

Police stopped 20 heavy goods vehicles at a checkpoint on Vauxhall Bridge and found offences relating to 10 lorries or their drivers.

Officers are investigating suspected irregularities with five more lorries. Only five were satisfactory.

Police said they identified 60 offences — the vast majority concerning drivers exceeding the limits on the time they are allowed to drive.

Two lorries were found to be dangerous, one with a serious tyre defect that left it in danger of bursting.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/hgv-drivers-caught-in-bike-safety-operation-8946997.html

Oh and(through gritted teeth!) good for the Standard for publishing these kind of balanced articles.

 

[Utopia]

But how many actual serious accidents can be attributed to their use ?

I really couldn't say but I commute on a bike daily as well as being a keen amateur cyclist at weekends and I tried using headphones whilst training on my bike in Vicky park & was astounded by just how it much it deadens your senses......people forget just how much we use our ears & I can imagine it would make a dramatic difference in traffic awareness.

 

[editor]

If they're going to try and stop cyclists from playing music, then they should consider ripping out the in-car/lorry entertainment systems too.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I really couldn't say but I commute on a bike daily as well as being a keen amateur cyclist at weekends and I tried using headphones whilst training on my bike in Vicky park & was astounded by just how it much it deadens your senses......people forget just how much we use our ears & I can imagine it would make a dramatic difference in traffic awareness.

I agree with this - I would never cycle in London with headphones on. But this is not what has been killing cyclists recently. And Johnson focusing on cyclist behaviour immediately after six people have been killed by large vehicles and there is no evidence that any of them was doing any of the things Johnson is talking about? It's disgusting, tbh. Johnson disgusts me.

 

[Utopia]

If they're going to try and stop cyclists from playing music, then they should consider ripping out the in-car/lorry entertainment systems too.

Playing music and wearing headphones are 2 quite different things.

 

[gentlegreen]

It depends on the phones, the volume and the circumstances.
The wind howls straight through mine.
Not having music would ruin most of my cycling.



When I drive a CAR on the other hand, I have to open all the windows and the sun roof - whatever the time of year.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Playing music and wearing headphones are 2 quite different things.

There have been studies done on driver safety and listening to the radio. There is a measurable increase in the likelihood of accidents where you have the radio on. I'll try to dig it out.

 

[editor]

Playing music and wearing headphones are 2 quite different things.

Please explain the difference. Some car sound systems are so deafening that houses shake when they go by. I can't even imagine how distracting it must be to have all that going on in a car/lorry. And then you've got all that hands-free technology to distract the driver too.

 

[8ball]

There have been studies done on driver safety and listening to the radio. There is a measurable increase in the likelihood of accidents where you have the radio on. I'll try to dig it out.

Doesn't surprise me in the least. Same would go for distractions from passengers/children etc.

 

[Utopia]

If they're going to try and stop cyclists from playing music, then they should consider ripping out the in-car/lorry entertainment systems too.

Headphones don't normally allow any other sound into the ear, playing music does allow other sounds in to a point, in fairness your post didn't mention the level of the music was 'deafening'.....if thats the case then yes deafening music should also be banned then.

 

[fredfelt]

Playing music and wearing headphones are 2 quite different things.

Yup. I don't often ride in London so I enlist the help of my sat nav - which I listen to through a headphone.


Anyway I wonder if Boris intentionally made this comment to deflect attention from his substandard cycle superhighways.