UK Votes to Leave EU

[butchersapron]

I have no ideology that I follow. I would like the world to be as fair as possible but know it will never be perfect. The referendum was held and the result was very close. It certainly seems like people were misinformed so I don't think the result is an accurate reflection of people's hopes for the future so the actions we take will not be successful in the minds of the winners or the losers. In other words we all lose.

There are objective facts that can be given to give everyone a choice in how we proceed. You mention inequality and there are figures available that to me seem realistic. I assume you base your opinions on what you perceive to be good quality information. Worldwide inequality is reducing but in the UK it increasing. Although there will be no completely accurate figures we can still look at countries similar to the UK that have fairer society's and what social policies they have to help achieve this and how much of it is related to the economy. Whether we like it or not business will need to be part of any solutions. Why not look at which countries are best at collecting tax from businesses and how much this affects equality.

I don't agree.

 

[xenon]

The way I see it, it's about people being able to make an informed choice rather than be subject to propaganda from both camps.

Nutral facts. Like gravity. But we need some more economists. With the cold hard facts that they all agree on.

 

[xenon]

I don't know if you've been paying attention. But there are no facts. There is action and reaction. 40 years in the making. More.

 

[butchersapron]

Nutral facts. Like gravity. But we need some more economists. With the cold hard facts that they all agree on.

...and that people respect.

What do you do when the experts are rejected? What's the next level?

 

[xenon]

...and that people respect.

What do you do when the experts are rejected? What's the next level?

What do you do when democracy has failed? Get rid of the people.

 

[wheelie_bin]

...and that people respect.

What do you do when the experts are rejected? What's the next level?

Clearly the answer is to start a leadership war within your party and debate whether you can just ignore the result. That seems to be the most popular reactions so far.

 

[butchersapron]

What do you do when democracy has failed? Get rid of the people.

First make some use of them - look at these thickos - the area they live in vote for leave yet it get some money from the Eu, and now the council is asking for an equivalent back. The silly little people.

 

[xenon]

To be honest, I am disgusted at what is going on. But this is a product of the last 40 - 50 years. Not because some uninformeddd thickos voted the wrong way. Because they didn't have, "the facts. "

 

[oryx]

They just did. It's now actually about people like you claiming other people were victims because they passed up on the opp of agreeing with you.

Do you honestly think people made an informed choice, or one influenced by propaganda?

 

[Anju]

I don't agree.

I have never been rude to someone online but I will make an exception. You are probably a bit drunk, feeling defensive about how you voted and want to take your frustration out by insulting others online rather than questioning your own motivation. To call me racist when you know nothing about me is a little desperate and I think you protest too much.

 

[butchersapron]

Do you honestly think people made an informed choice, or one influenced by propaganda?

Do you honestly think that others need pass some test that you or anju set to be able to vote?

 

[oryx]

Do you honestly think that others need pass some test that you or anju set to be able to vote?

Do you honestly think I'm suggesting that?

 

[butchersapron]

Yes. A set of facts to be shown that you understand before being able to vote. Are you not? What was the lovely BBC if not that then?

 

[wheelie_bin]

Perhaps everybody needs a nice cup of tea and a lie down. Our politicians have more than enough knives out for each other right now as they fail to lead, everyone else getting at each other as well won't help.

 

[butchersapron]

I have never been rude to someone online but I will make an exception. You are probably a bit drunk, feeling defensive about how you voted and want to take your frustration out by insulting others online rather than questioning your own motivation. To call me racist when you know nothing about me is a little desperate and I think you protest too much.

Probably because i'm not a real euopean. Or your cretinous posts.

 

[free spirit]

I don't know if you've been paying attention. But there are no facts. There is action and reaction. 40 years in the making. More.

there weren't any facts because nobody knew for sure what brexit would actually mean, and those campaigning for it abused that to make out that we could have everything that all leave campaigners wanted all at the same time.

At the point where this has been negotiated and there is a firm proposal on the table there would be facts that should be put to the british people to consider assuming that they're materially different to the bullshit version that the leave campaign just campaigned on.

 

[xenon]

Do you honestly think people made an informed choice, or one influenced by propaganda?

You honestly think there was a choice like tea or coffee? Nice dinner party debate. Gloss over the anger, the dispossessed, shapeless and reactionary though it may be. The wholesale rejection of crap. Some nice clearsimple pamflets could fix it all.

The naivete is quite astounding.

 

[butchersapron]

You honestly think there was a choice like tea or coffee? Nice dinner party debate. Gloss over the anger, the dispossessed, shapeless and reactionary though it may be. The wholesale rejection of crap. Some nice clearsimple pamflets could fix it all.

The naivete is quite astounding.

It's necessary.

 

[Anju]

Perhaps everybody needs a nice cup of tea and a lie down. Our politicians have more than enough knives out for each other right now as they fail to lead, everyone else getting at each other as well won't help.

He started it. . But yes I think I will have a Milo and JD then lie down.

 

[oryx]

 

[free spirit]

You honestly think there was a choice like tea or coffee? Nice dinner party debate. Gloss over the anger, the dispossessed, shapeless and reactionary though it may be. The wholesale rejection of crap. Some nice clearsimple pamflets could fix it all.

The naivete is quite astounding.

it's not the quality of the pamphlets, it's about actually knowing in detail what it is that is being voted on rather than some fantasy version of it that borris gove and farrage cooked up on the back of a beermat after a few pints as the best way to win the referendum.

unless they actually are able to negotiate a brexit package that involves full access to the common market and immigration controls, no money going to the EU, no rule of EU law etc.

 

[xenon]

If nothing else. This last week has been quite informative. I spoiled my ballot paper. Yeah. Go me. I despise the racists, the ruling classes, the fact that it has come to this. The festering state of division has just been highlighted. The great unwashed and vs urbane jetsetting Europhiles. The former just need better facts.

 

[butchersapron]

If nothing else. This last week has been quite informative. I spoiled my ballot paper. Yeah. Go me. I despise the racists, the ruling classes, the fact that it has come to this. The festering state of division has just been highlighted. The great unwashed and vs urbane jetsetting Europhiles. The former just need better facts.

It would enrich their life.

 

[xenon]

it's not the quality of the pamphlets, it's about actually knowing in detail what it is that is being voted on rather than some fantasy version of it that borris gove and farrage cooked up on the back of a beermat after a few pints as the best way to win the referendum.

unless they actually are able to negotiate a brexit package that involves full access to the common market and immigration controls, no money going to the EU, no rule of EU law etc.

Too late now. What ever happens from here on in, masks have slipped. Not least the naked incompetence and self-serving bluffing of a political elite.

 

[xenon]

It would enrich their life.

Why have you ruined my career opportunity in Italy you monster

 

[xenon]

Don't you care about my children?

 

[Anju]

You honestly think there was a choice like tea or coffee? Nice dinner party debate. Gloss over the anger, the dispossessed, shapeless and reactionary though it may be. The wholesale rejection of crap. Some nice clearsimple pamflets could fix it all.

The naivete is quite astounding.

So what are you suggesting should happen. The 40+ years you refer to have been filled with our politicians blaming Europe for many of their mistakes. I can't think of any pro EU stories.

I don't see any massive paradigm change on the horizon. To hope for this is to do nothing. Even with the power of social media, harnessed by big business and powerful enough to persuade people to sacrifice their lives for a cause the left has not made any progress. This referendum does offer a little hope but when Boris does his deals to further empower his friends in their quest to own everything and everyone people will just become more disenfranchised but they will not vote out the people that are I charge they will take it out on whoever they have been led to believe is to blame.

 

[butchersapron]

Don't you care about my children?

I wanted them to drink little bits of wine and eat outside on shit tables in the street.

 

[butchersapron]

So what are you suggesting should happen. The 40+ years you refer to have been filled with our politicians blaming Europe for many of their mistakes. I can't think of any pro EU stories.

I don't see any massive paradigm change on the horizon. To hope for this is to do nothing. Even with the power of social media, harnessed by big business and powerful enough to persuade people to sacrifice their lives for a cause the left has not made any progress. This referendum does offer a little hope but when Boris does his deals to further empower his friends in their quest to own everything and everyone people will just become more disenfranchised but they will not vote out the people that are I charge they will take it out on whoever they have been led to believe is to blame.

What should happen t make the EU look good to people getting screwed by it until they agree with you?

 

[xenon]

So what are you suggesting should happen. The 40+ years you refer to have been filled with our politicians blaming Europe for many of their mistakes. I can't think of any pro EU stories.

I don't see any massive paradigm change on the horizon. To hope for this is to do nothing. Even with the power of social media, harnessed by big business and powerful enough to persuade people to sacrifice their lives for a cause the left has not made any progress. This referendum does offer a little hope but when Boris does his deals to further empower his friends in their quest to own everything and everyone people will just become more disenfranchised but they will not vote out the people that are I charge they will take it out on whoever they have been led to believe is to blame.

I don't know. I Didn't create this mess. The same old same old. Join a union, talk to your neighbours, stand up for things Or I could have just voted for remain. And then put my feet up.

This is a serious reply. I need to do more, to do something.