Who's going along to the G20 protests?

[In Bloom]

Armchair activist In Bloom strikes again

My Auntie is going and she's very involved in the local community on many levels - in the synagogue, in housing co-operatives, etc.

My Auntie is vegetarian, not vegan, and she buys her clothes second-hand from the charity shop. Fashion doesn't matter as much to her or her friends/community as it does to you.

Yes, he is.

No. Community organising is not a sign of weakness. Which 'we' are you a part of? The fashionable sect of armchair complainers? Like a young Victor Meldrew perhaps? All tweed cap and bitter complaints as you move through your day?

Not only for disagreeing, but the stereotyped jibes you make show you as both naïve and alienated/out of touch.

You represent the 'Fashionista sect - who sit in the comfort zone armchair, passing judgement on the way people dress and organise.

Are you illiterate or just dim?

At no point have I said that community organising is a sign of weakness, nor have I passed judgement on anybody's fashion specifically, what I have said is that summit based activism, like personal lifestyle choices such as diet or dress sense, is a dead end as a form of political action. Everything else you've attributed to me exists solely within your own mind.

Incidentally, if you knew the slightest thing about me, you'd know just how silly calling me a 'fashionista' is

 

[In Bloom]

What the fuck has someone's dress sense got to do with these protests?
Isn't that the kind of shabby ad hominems that the likes of the Mail and the Standard like to lob around rather than deal with the issues behind the day's events?

I've been trying to figure that out myself.
I'm entirely dressed from second-hand clothes most of the time, and I don't look fashionable at all. What's a girl to do? Recycle old clothes, furniture, books etc, or get sucked into the consumer con of having to look a certain way else be derided and devalued?

You both have a lot of difficulty laughing at yourselves, don't you?

Edit: Incidentally, buying stuff second hand doesn't make you any less of a consumer, it certainly doesn't represent a break from commodified fashion, so much as an affirmation of it.

 

[tangentlama]

In all this talk of a G20 Meltdown, isn't the Left neglecting the basics? What do these protests represent, aside from a gathering of experienced activists? Are we connecting with ordinary people?

The people going on today's demo ARE ORDINARY PEOPLE.
What do you think they are? Princes and Princessess?

For example, most of the non-conformist churches in my town went down on coaches (incl. inter-faith groups) to London this morning. Those people work in just about every type of trade/industry/public service that you are to mention.

If we want to achieve social change we have to build roots where it matters - in working class commmunities and workplaces. As far as I can see, the Left isn't doing that enough at the moment.

See above.

I found this article via indymedia by some new Left blog. Sounds like a sensible analysis.
[Blog-plug]http://theleftluggage.wordpress.com/2009/03/27/g20-why-theres-no-shortcut-to-revolution/

You and others are obsessed with 'The Left' - this sort of thing is beyond "Left". The people at the demo today are ORDINARY PEOPLE who live in ORDINARY COMMUNITIES who are WORKING CLASS.

Instead of wittering from the sidelines, get involved with these ordinary communities and watch and learn from their organisational ability.

 

[tangentlama]

You both have a lot of difficulty laughing at yourselves, don't you?

Edit: Incidentally, buying stuff second hand doesn't make you any less of a consumer, it certainly doesn't represent a break from commodified fashion, so much as an affirmation of it.

I'll start weaving clothes out of grasses. Are you happy with that? Do you live this life you advocate to the reset of us, Mr. Lifestyle-critic ?

 

[In Bloom]

I'll start weaving clothes out of grasses. Are you happy with that? Do you live this life you advocate to the reset of us, Mr. Lifestyle-critic ?

I. Don't. Actually. Care. How. You. Dress.

Nor do I advocate any particular lifestyle, I'm not, after all, the one claiming to have the ability to boycott a social relationship.

 

[tangentlama]

I. Don't. Actually. Care. How. You. Dress.

Nor do I advocate any particular lifestyle, I'm not, after all, the one claiming to have the ability to boycott a social relationship.

You advocate against some types of lifestyle-choice though and berate those who express their sociopolitical will in this way. It's very sad to see it. Have you no positive contribution to make yourself other than your usual 'nihilism'?

The fact that some (I don't believe "most" for one second) people who are involved in the G20 stuff are also active in their workplaces and their community is not evidence that the G20 protests are worthwhile. I'm sure a lot of them are vegans with poor dress sense, too, it doesn't follow from this that there's anything inherently positive or revolutionary about being a shabbily attired picky eater.

 

[editor]

Fuck me - there's a massive turnout. I've watched several thousand go past at Trafalgar Square and LDR is still at Waterloo.

 

[In Bloom]

You advocate against some types of lifestyle-choice though

No, I don't. It's none of my business how somebody chooses to live their life, as long as they're not bothering anybody else. It's people claiming that their apolitical lifestyle choices constitute a political act that bothers me.

It's very sad to see it. Have you no positive contribution to make yourself other than your usual 'nihilism'?

If you want to know what I'm in favour of and what I do, I suggest you read my previous posts on these boards, this thread isn't about me.

Also, it's traditional to put things like 'nihilism' in quote marks when that person actually uses that label themselves, doing so with a label that that person does not use makes it look an awful lot like you're making some pathetic attempt to misrepresent that person.

 

[durruti02]

In all this talk of a G20 Meltdown, isn't the Left neglecting the basics? What do these protests represent, aside from a gathering of experienced activists? Are we connecting with ordinary people?

If we want to achieve social change we have to build roots where it matters - in working class commmunities and workplaces. As far as I can see, the Left isn't doing that enough at the moment.

I found this article via indymedia by some new Left blog. Sounds like a sensible analysis.

http://theleftluggage.wordpress.com/2009/03/27/g20-why-theres-no-shortcut-to-revolution/

totally agree ..

btw have started a thread on this group .. if you know more could you tell us on that?

 

[durruti02]

You and others are obsessed with 'The Left' - this sort of thing is beyond "Left". The people at the demo today are ORDINARY PEOPLE who live in ORDINARY COMMUNITIES who are WORKING CLASS.

Instead of wittering from the sidelines, get involved with these ordinary communities and watch and learn from their organisational ability.

lol we DO!! i've never heard you ever saying you have done anything else before mind .. BUT some of us are also savvy to the damage the left has done .. and are also aware that protests rarely acheive anything OF THEIR OWN .. if they are to mean anything they need to then do what e.g. that webiste that you dismissed straight away suggests ..

 

[boing!]

In all this talk of a G20 Meltdown, isn't the Left neglecting the basics? What do these protests represent, aside from a gathering of experienced activists? Are we connecting with ordinary people?

If we want to achieve social change we have to build roots where it matters - in working class commmunities and workplaces. As far as I can see, the Left isn't doing that enough at the moment.

I found this article via indymedia by some new Left blog. Sounds like a sensible analysis.

http://theleftluggage.wordpress.com/2009/03/27/g20-why-theres-no-shortcut-to-revolution/

I agree with a lot of that. For me, if I went to the protests, I'd feel like I was just protesting for the sake of protesting. The problems we face are so vast I'm not sure how much going on a protest is going to help in real terms, although its a good place to start I guess.

Also, I can't help but think it could even alienate a lot of normal people who need to be engaged with right now. Once the papers get their nice pictures of 'rioting mobs' (not my opinion, obviously, but thats how most of the media will portray it) and can paint the whole action as a load of window smashing yobs on a day out, thats going to taint the view of a lot of people who up until now may have just been waking up to the fact that all this unrestrained capitalism may not have been such a good idea.

I dunno, maybe I'm just a lazy cunt, and Im making excuses for myself, but it does all feel a bit directionless at the moment.

 

[tangentlama]

Fuck me - there's a massive turnout. I've watched several thousand go past at Trafalgar Square and LDR is still at Waterloo.

 

[editor]

Just making it into Hyde Park now. The crowd is very mixed - loads of Trade Unionists, campaigners and old folks - and although it's ruddy chilly, the vibe is upbeat.

Great to see Offline regulars Barking Bateria at the front of the march!

 

[tangentlama]

Just making it into Hyde Park now. The crowd is very mixed - loads of Trade Unionists, campaigners and old folks - and although it's ruddy chilly, the vibe is upbeat.

Great to see Offline regulars Barking Bateria at the front of the march!

BBC are reporting 35,000 demonstrators (Police estimate).

 

[the button]

BBC are reporting 35,000 demonstrators (Police estimate).

All we need to do now is wait for the SWP estimate. Simply multiply the police estimate by two, divide the SWP estimate by three, and the true attendence is the average of those two figures.

 

[Garcia Lorca]

Simply multiply the police estimate by two, divide the SWP estimate by three, and the true attendence is the average of those two figures.

swp have a habit of never having less than 100 000 on a national demo.

 

[dylans]

In my experience you can always double the police estimate. That makes it about 50.000 or 60.000. Not a bad turnout given all the intimidatory scaremongering this week.

 

[gabi]

Forgive me for I'm a bit dumb I guess. So the people protesting are anti-capitalism right? They've spent the last 9 years pretty much silent every May Day while the British economy has been running quite nicely thank you very much.

So, in 2009, with capitalism pretty much fucked - NOW they're protesting? What the fuck. Surely they should be celebrating They got what they wanted. I just dont get it. Is it just some warped joke?

Weird. I'd normally be in for a good old fashioned protest, but I really don't get what this one's about. Seems juvenile at best.

 

[xes]

Just got back, was a nice peaceful demo, lots of people, no agro. Didn't see any of yoos lot there, never mind.

 

[Garcia Lorca]

So, in 2009, with capitalism pretty much fucked - NOW they're protesting? What the fuck. Surely they should be celebrating They got what they wanted. I just dont get it. Is it just some warped joke?

so the way things are today is what people or the protesters want? i thought we were still in a capitalist society... at least we were at 2pm when i left asda.

 

[DownwardDog]

What do the protestors want anyway? Apart from the ever present demands for someone else's money and for the weather to stay the same it seems a bit vague.

 

[mango5]

Forgive me for I'm a bit dumb I guess. So the people protesting are anti-capitalism right?

Not me, or loads of others. There were Climate Change, Equalities, Peace and Human Rights campaigning agendas there, among many others. It seemed rather sparsely attended to me

 

[paolo]

Got back about an hour ago. I'm a noob for this kind of thing (barring a spur of the moment RTS ages ago). A completely diverse crowd, everything from a Pensioners group to Indian Workers. Big union block at the head, a really bouncy drumming group, excellent four horsemen (I assume they'll be the individual leads on Wednesday), slightly more edgy but very 'organised' Militant Workers Bloc... marching in a really tight formation (rather more police with them than any others).

Everyone seemed in good spirits. Policing looked relatively laid back - commensurate perhaps given it wasn't huge numbers, and almost no sign of the angry mob. Just a wide spectrum of ordinary people. I'll be back for future stuff like this, maybe see if I can persuade some mates to come along too.

e2a: My reason for being there... The environment and justice aspect. I'm not anticapitalist as such, but like most people obviously think that's something has gone very wrong.

 

[editor]

G... a really bouncy drumming group

Most of them will be at Offline at the Dogstar!

 

[editor]

What do the protestors want anyway? Apart from the ever present demands for someone else's money and for the weather to stay the same it seems a bit vague.

That comment just makes you look like a really ignorant bigot. Perhaps that's just what you are.

 

[gabi]

Not me, or loads of others. There were Climate Change, Equalities, Peace and Human Rights campaigning agendas there, among many others. It seemed rather sparsely attended to me

So, you *don't* want the 20 most influential people in the world to meet to try to sort these concerns out?

This one seems a bit opportunistic and foolhardy imo. Let them try to sort it out. There's no other choice at this point unfortunately. Why disrupt it? There's no time to waste if you do actually give a shit about the things you list above.

 

[paolo]

Most of them will be at Offline at the Dogstar!

Good choice.

 

[dylans]

So, you *don't* want the 20 most influential people in the world to meet to try to sort these concerns out?

This one seems a bit opportunistic and foolhardy imo. Let them try to sort it out. There's no other choice at this point unfortunately. Why disrupt it? There's no time to waste if you do actually give a shit about the things you list above.

You miss the point entirely.The G20 are not there to "sort it out" its not like they made a mistake and are ernestly trying to fix it.They are the problem. This crisis is endemic to an economic system that they are still committed to and that they have every intention of safeguarding at our expense.
The discussion at G20 is about the best way to make us pay for a rapidly developing world depression. Its about how to safeguard their interests and the interests of those that they represent. And that will be done by making us, our class, pay the costs of it so their profits will be safeguarded
They know this, and they know whose side they are on, and it aint ours. This really is about taking sides. The G20 demonstrations are about that, about saying we know which side we are on too and it ain't the side of the people in those meetings.

 

[editor]

Here's some photos:

More: http://www.urban75.org/photos/protest/g20-march-london-2009-2.html
http://www.urban75.org/photos/protest/g20-march-london-2009-1.html
http://www.urban75.org/photos/protest/g20-march-london-2009.html

 

[durruti02]

So, you *don't* want the 20 most influential people in the world to meet to try to sort these concerns out?

This one seems a bit opportunistic and foolhardy imo. Let them try to sort it out. There's no other choice at this point unfortunately. Why disrupt it? There's no time to waste if you do actually give a shit about the things you list above.

this march was not trying to disrupt the g20 but appeal to it .. though they will have been many on it who also think it is part of the problem