When did people stop commemorating the Napoleonic Wars?

[Slo-mo]

Just having a debate with a friend if we should *ever* stop commemorating the two World Wars of the 20th century. I contended, but she disagreed, that there will come a time, perhaps 20 years or so after the death of the last child evacuees, when all living contact with WWII is gone, when we should stop and move on. That time is not yet, not is it vaguely imminent.

There isn't much precident to go on here, which is what got me thinking about when we stopped commemorating the Napoleonic Wars.....

 

[Sea Star]

When WW3 happens we'll definitely move on I reckon.

 

[Pickman's model]

Just having a debate with a friend if we should *ever* stop commemorating the two World Wars of the 20th century. I contended, but she disagreed, that there will come a time, perhaps 20 years or so after the death of the last child evacuees, when all living contact with WWII is gone, when we should stop and move on. That time is not yet, not is it vaguely imminent.

There isn't much precident to go on here, which is what got me thinking about when we stopped commemorating the Napoleonic Wars.....

when did you last see a war memorial for the glorious dead of the french revolutionary / napoleonic wars?

commemoration as we know it only started round the time of the crimean war (e.g. memorial at dover and another down by pall mall).

 

[Slo-mo]

When WW3 happens we'll definitely move on I reckon.

I would imagine MAD pretty much rules out another full on World War in the WW1/WW2 mould.

 

[Sprocket.]

There are plenty of Tory MPs and their supporters, who are still intent on having a public holiday in October to commemorate Trafalgar. So I would think it is still a victory in some circles. (No pun intended)

 

[Pickman's model]

I would imagine MAD pretty much rules out another full on World War in the WW1/WW2 mould.

Yeh you would

But what's the global war on terror if not a world war in the sense of action across the globe?

 

[Slo-mo]

Yeh you would

But what's the global war on terror if not a world war in the sense of action across the globe?

Sure. But it's very different to both the World Wars of the 20th century and very different indeed to the Napoleonic Wars.

I was just wondering when regular commemorations of those who died in the Napoleonic Wars ended, if indeed they ever started.

 

[Pickman's model]

Sure. But it's very different to both the World Wars of the 20th century and very different indeed to the Napoleonic Wars.

I was just wondering when regular commemorations of those who died in the Napoleonic Wars ended, if indeed they ever started.

never started

 

[Grump]

I am not aware that the dead of earlier conflicts were commemorated in the formal manner we use now. That is, I suspect, due to the scale of death in WW1 and WW2 and the involvement of the civilian population. That changed our attitude to conflicts from being engagements fought only by the military to a sense that the whole population was involved.

 

[Pickman's model]

I am not aware that the dead of earlier conflicts were commemorated in the formal manner we use now. That is, I suspect, due to the scale of death in WW1 and WW2 and the involvement of the civilian population. That changed our attitude to conflicts from being engagements fought only by the military to a sense that the whole population was involved.

apart from the boer war of course - which is why the kop end at anfield so named, after spion kop. there's tons of boer war memorials about. and as i say there's some crimean too. but in general before the boer war the commemoration was more in terms of let's have a statue of the famous general e.g. from the indian mutiny.

 

[Grump]

A commemoration of WW3 will presumably consist of a gaggle of cockroaches giggling hysterically at the idea they now have the planet to themselves.

 

[Grump]

Apologies, I knew 'gaggle' would not be right. Apparently the collective noun for cockroaches is an 'intrusion'.

 

[19force8]

apart from the boer war of course - which is why the kop end at anfield so named, after spion kop. there's tons of boer war memorials about. and as i say there's some crimean too. but in general before the boer war the commemoration was more in terms of let's have a statue of the famous general e.g. from the indian mutiny.

Wasn't the Crimean War the first that had war correspondents reporting in large circulation newspapers within days of the action? Must have made it more real to the general public. Specially given they could see the incompetent officer class pilloried in editorials. Lots of commemoration of Florence Nightingale.

But none of it compared with the impact of mass conscription and industrial warfare killing millions rather than thousands.

Also worth remembering that it was mostly continentals being killed in the Napoleonic Wars - relatively few British troops involved. The Allied army at Waterloo had about 24k British and Irish troops - roughly a third of the whole. This proportion drops to a fifth if you include the 48k Prussian troops. And why wouldn't you as they were the ones wot won it.

 

[19force8]

It's also worth noting the use of street names derived from the wars. Eg the Heights of Abraham in Matlock from the 7years war. [err, a park not a street, but you see what I mean]

 

[Pickman's model]

Wasn't the Crimean War the first that had war correspondents reporting in large circulation newspapers within days of the action? Must have made it more real to the general public. Specially given they could see the incompetent officer class pilloried in editorials. Lots of commemoration of Florence Nightingale.

But none of it compared with the impact of mass conscription and industrial warfare killing millions rather than thousands.

Also worth remembering that it was mostly continentals being killed in the Napoleonic Wars - relatively few British troops involved. The Allied army at Waterloo had about 24k British and Irish troops - roughly a third of the whole. This proportion drops to a fifth if you include the 48k Prussian troops. And why wouldn't you as they were the ones wot won it.

i think you'll find that even in the napoleonic wars information reached newspapers within days of the action.

 

[19force8]

i think you'll find that even in the napoleonic wars information reached newspapers within days of the action.

Yes, word of Waterloo probably reached London inside 48hrs, but it was still maybe a week from Portugal and a fortnight from Egypt. Also, there's a big difference between dispatches and reportage. The railways, the telegraph and the eventual abolition of stamp duty made a big difference to newspaper distribution and readership between 1815 and the 1850s.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes, word of Waterloo probably reached London inside 48hrs, but it was still maybe a week from Portugal and a fortnight from Egypt. Also, there's a big difference between dispatches and reportage. The railways, the telegraph and the eventual abolition of stamp duty made a big difference to newspaper distribution and readership between 1815 and the 1850s.

Not sure why you're fussing about the time it took news of Waterloo to reach Portugal or Egypt. Sure it took months to reach patagonia and yakutsk too, if we're on about utterly irrelevant places

 

[19force8]

Not sure why you're fussing about the time it took news of Waterloo to reach Portugal or Egypt. Sure it took months to reach patagonia and yakutsk too, if we're on about utterly irrelevant places

Good point had I said a week to Portugal and not a week from Portugal

Edit - and not at all irrelevant in terms of the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars.

 

[StoneRoad]

Within Naval circles, and some Army Units, the role they played in the Napoleonic battles is not forgotten.

 

[Pickman's model]

Good point had I said a week to Portugal and not a week from Portugal

Edit - and not at all irrelevant in terms of the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars.

I took you to mean that by the time word reached London it was still a long way from Portugal and egypt

 

[DaveCinzano]

When did people stop commemorating the Napoleonic Wars?

Has anyone asked Sas?

 

[DaveCinzano]

I would imagine MAD pretty much rules out another full on World War in the WW1/WW2 mould.

 

[mojo pixy]

It's art that'll keep it all going. The photographs, film, poetry, literature written by participants, art and music from the time, the propaganda and the commentary. There's not so much of that for wars before the 20th century, but WW1 and even more so WW2 were recorded vastly in every conceivable way and that mass of recorded material and first-hand testimony is what will ultimately make WW1 and WW2 outlast previous wars.

 

[RubyToogood]

They're still commemorated in folksong eg The Bonny Bunch of Roses. Folksong is littered with bodies of men who died in "the wars", mostly Napoleonic but also "other".

 

[likesfish]

ww1 and ww2 should hopefully be commemorated for a long time to try to ram the message home war is bad so don't do it, unfortunately, the message doesn't seem to be getting through

 

[Slo-mo]

ww1 and ww2 should hopefully be commemorated for a long time

Oh yes. The debate me and my friend were having is whether "a long time" should equal forever.

The English Civil War was a terribly long and bloody conflagration but within a hundred years, certainly within 200 ,the country had moved on.

Contrast that with NI where they still actively commemorate the Battle of the Boyne and you can see that never forgetting isn't always a good thing.

 

[JimW]

Oh yes. The debate me and my friend were having is whether "a long time" should equal forever.

The English Civil War was a terribly long and bloody conflagration but within a hundred years, certainly within 200 ,the country had moved on.

Contrast that with NI where they still actively commemorate the Battle of the Boyne and you can see that never forgetting isn't always a good thing.

We do have the Sealed Knot

 

[newbie]

The inventory listing of 1476 shows that the tapestry was being hung annually in Bayeux Cathedral for the week of the Feast of St. John the Baptist; and this was still the case in 1728, although by that time the purpose was merely to air the hanging, which was otherwise stored in a chest.

so there was annual commemoration of 'war' in 1476, which may have lasted for 300 odd years since it was made and seems to have carried on for another 2 or 3 hundred.

 

[Pickman's model]

Oh yes. The debate me and my friend were having is whether "a long time" should equal forever.

The English Civil War was a terribly long and bloody conflagration but within a hundred years, certainly within 200 ,the country had moved on.

Contrast that with NI where they still actively commemorate the Battle of the Boyne and you can see that never forgetting isn't always a good thing.

Can you give me an example of passive commemoration?

 

[newbie]

Can you give me an example of passive commemoration?

Nelsons column, Waterloo station, a fair number of Beacon Hills scattered around the country... ?