what the BNP actually say on immigration ..

[durruti02]

As i have said elsewhere, What i dont understand is the way many people both here and in wider society obsess about the BNP and yet ignore some of the factors that have led to its rise. For instance, a thread i started on the welcome emergence of a national campaign to fight the very draconinian Welfare Reform Bill which will affect millions has only had 40 odd views, less than the airfix one. More significantly, apart from our self instigated event: in Manchester during the LP conference the SWP led Mancs Against Tanks, have no events, meetings, actions, etc which don't feature the war, racism, muslims, imperialism or palestine, fetishisation? There seems to be a obssession with racism, minorities, etc, and a corresponding lack of interest for more 'mundane' issues like welfare. Imo, this lack of interest in poverty, etc, needs to be tackled head on: the BNP for instance have a campaign to create a 'landlords charter protecting those in private accomodation, when is the last time leftists did anything like that? Imo, if the left and progressives, etc don't start acknowledging these inequalities and injustices and prioritising them, rather than obssessing about things we can do liltle about, then more decent left minded people will continue to consider voting and indeed supporting the BNP.

as always spot on ..

 

[belboid]

are you honestly saying that the eu expansion was NOT initially due to bosses demand for cheap labour???

( i accept there are mnay other reasons )

are you unable to read you dishonest little cunt?

spot on .. BB and all seem to think things just 'hey seem to happen' instead of being planned by the bosses/states

stop making my opinions up. it just makes you look even more stupid.

I suppose you have to do that tho to make yourself feel better.

 

[Fong]

treelovers another liberal, and I dont believe a word fong says - funny how his 'leftism' never actualyl gets an airing unless its in a claim that he isnt a right-wing twit (as all his posts on this thread have indicated). also funny how none of them stick by your (occasionally) proclaimed position of no immigration controls, and are active supporters of far far more restrictive such controls. Are you really so blind that you dont see that your pseudo-leftist 'concern' about immigration only strengthens the hands of those who want such controls?

So apparently trying to defend workers by not allowing a huge increase of cheap labour both here and abroad, or would you like to tell the Peugot workers that they are better off now their plant has been moved to eastern europe?

Somehow, that isn't left wing?

Protecting workers is now right wing?

Not all left leaning people believe in communism, I do believe in the free market, because I look at our lifestyle and it isn't that bad, it isn't perfect, it isn't protected enough, big business is allowed too much of a free reign, but just because I like the free market and capitalism doesn't make me right wing, it just means I understand that there hasn't been a better option offered up.

 

[belboid]

'protectionism' isnt protecting workers, its protecting bosses.

 

[Fong]

The funny thing is, I used to hold exactly the same opinions on a Republican American board and got called a Communist.

Now i hold them on here and get called Right Wing.

It is funny how you are in fact no better.

I tell you what, read my near 6,000 posts, find 1 where I have ever called anyone left wing, right wing, facist or communist.

You won't find any, because I don't need to try and pidgeon hole people to prove my stance is correct, I don't need to turn the arguments into some name calling political excercise, I understand that people can hold different opinions on different aspects.

As to how left I am, according to the political compass, I am extremely Left/Liberal.

But apparently, not trotting out every belief I have in every post is enough to tar me as right wing.

 

[Fong]

'protectionism' isnt protecting workers, its protecting bosses.

Ok, so forcing bosses to select from a finite labour pool that has a standard of living it expects to maintain is protecting them?

Whereas stopping them choosing from a massive labour pool that is ever growing due to more immigration that has no standard of living expectations is somehow not protecting workers?

Ok, would you care to explain how that works?

 

[snadge]

Do they?

Not according to their website. According to their website they deal with engineering construction.

Councils don't do a lot of 'engineering construction' they are doing some home building now. Mulally is/has built over 500 homes in Newham, and did a massive refurbishment of a tower block, the signs on the building are not in English, they are cyrillic, I don't know the language, only know its not english, I have mentioned this before, because the number of workers for Mulally that are from Eastern Europe is massive, some are from places like Brazil too, but the vast majority are from Eastern Europe.

My mate works for them, he got given the job because 1, he is a local resident and Mulally are under some pressure to emply local residents and 2, because he can speak english, he sits on the gate and is teh guy that talks to drivers and anyone that comes to the site, he was specifically recruited for that skill.

Building homes isn't engineering construction and that is where the most basic skilled workers are, the ones that are losing out to cheap labour, that doesn't need high levels of training. Not engineering construction that is highly specialised and involves highly trained people.

You still don't get it do you?

Bob the builder still has to follow the same guidelines as my employer does when I'm on a power station.

The undercutting of wages on NJC agreed sites by employing migrant workers at source is enabling employers all down the line to use the same loopholes, so reducing wages from the supervisors working on a contract on the power station all the way down to that brickie building a wall on the housing estate next door.

Did you know Mitsui Babcocks have an agency in poland and employ ( through their own agency ) welders down to care assistant and including all building trades also?

 

[durruti02]

are you unable to read you dishonest little cunt?

stop making my opinions up. it just makes you look even more stupid.

I suppose you have to do that tho to make yourself feel better.

hangover dear?

.. you were clearly emphasising the other reasons for EU expansion .. what is critical is NOW .. what it is being used for now

so lets clarify .. do you accept that EU expansion was initially mainly due to bosses demands for cheap labour and that has been critical in their neo liberal agenda in the uk?

 

[belboid]

my head is fine, I'm just sick of your disingenuos bullshit and your distortions of reality.

Hope you enjoy the company of these little englanders and supporters of stronger immigration controls.

 

[Fong]

The undercutting of wages on NJC agreed

Well maybe I don't understand Snadge.

Are you saying that all sites are NJC agreed, because I got the impression that only engineering sites were NJC agreed. That is only an impression tho, if you tell me that ALL building sites, or as near as all as is reasonable, are NJC agreed then ok, I can accept that, but that wasn't the impression I got from their site.

 

[Fong]

my head is fine, I'm just sick of your disingenuos bullshit and your distortions of reality.

Hope you enjoy the company of these little englanders and supporters of stronger immigration controls.

Again with the same name calling.

Anyone that disagrees is now 'a little englander'

Weren't you the same person earlier so adamant that you weren't calling people racist when I brought it up?

Yet here you, a few pages later doing exactly that in a thinly disguised manner.

 

[Fong]

Let me remind you Belboid.

I haven't accused anyone of being racist, so stop trying to say I have.

As ot calling you a racist, I never said you did, I said there is no reason to consider Immigration a matter of racism, which IS prevalent in this thread.

So prevalent that not two pages later you are doing it yourself.

Then you wonder why I mentioned it two pages ago, because you are predictable, anyone that disagrees on immigration is racist, there is no room for anything else in your mind.

The worst part is we are racist, but we are talking about Eastern Europeans here, white people, white people that look exactly the same as the rest of the white people in this country due to almost 1400 years of wars, invasions and immigration, but apparently its still about racism.

Such pointless bollox.

 

[snadge]

Well maybe I don't understand Snadge.

Are you saying that all sites are NJC agreed, because I got the impression that only engineering sites were NJC agreed. That is only an impression tho, if you tell me that ALL building sites, or as near as all as is reasonably, are NJC agreed then ok, I can accept that, but that wasn't the impression I got from their site.

If you look at it this way.

Bob the builder, irrespective of his country of origin has to have a saftey passport ( EICTB) as do I.

The Agreement determines the wages and other conditions of employment for hourly-paid craftspeople employed on engineering construction projects and related work throughout the United Kingdom.

the operative part in this is "related work", over the past 5 years the building industry has been pulled more and more under the NJC agreements, note that over the last year more and more building sites are having to adhere to CDM regulations http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/cdm.htm which was implemented by NJC consultation.

AS I said the only area where the NJC hasn't got a say is in wages but blame the sparkies for that.

saying that though building wage structures are related to the NJC agreement and I don't think it will be long before they are adhered to, trouble is getting employers to follow leglisation, when companies have a loophole to employ workers in country of origin and so escape having to follow the NJC agreements they will....

 

[audiotech]

but they could not have done it with out this immigration

The largest drive to cut workers living standards happened under a Labour government led by Callaghan and Healy with orders from the IMF. Now the I in IMF doesn't stand for immigration.

 

[snadge]

The largest drive to cut workers living standards happened under a Labour government led by Callaghan and Healy with orders from the IMF. Now the I in IMF doesn't stand for immigration.

And since then the wages have been regulated, now it is happening again....


don't blame todays problems on past goverments, this ongoing issue has been escalating over the past 2 years.

 

[audiotech]

..but then again have you ever come across a sparkie that looks at the bigger picture.

The history of the EETPU (Electrical, Electronic, Telecommunications and Plumbers Union) is not a glorious one. I know I was an electrician once.

 

[audiotech]

And since then the wages have been regulated, now it is happening again....


don't blame todays problems on past goverments, this ongoing issue has been escalating over the past 2 years.

But the point I am making is that there were cuts in workers living standards at the time and this had nothing to do with immigration. I see no evidence now that workers living standards generally are being affected negatively by immigration. If you have any let's see it?

 

[belboid]

Again with the same name calling.

Anyone that disagrees is now 'a little englander'

Weren't you the same person earlier so adamant that you weren't calling people racist when I brought it up?

Yet here you, a few pages later doing exactly that in a thinly disguised manner.

all your posts show that you have difficulty with basic english- well either that or you are a straightforward liar.

If you think the twat tonka toy isnt a little englander, you're even dimmer than I thought. But of course you have to try and say that I am referring to you (cos you are sooo important, everything is about you, isnt it?) to try and gain some 'sympathy'.

Now, fuck off back to school and learn how to read.

 

[snadge]

But the point I am making is that there were cuts in workers living standards at the time and this had nothing to do with immigration. I see no evidence now that workers living standards generally are being affected negatively by immigration. If you have any let's see it?

No but it was to do with the employers, fighting unionisation on a grand scale, they were beat remember.

Today employers are doing the same thing by proxy, instead of cutting wages they are employing migrant workers on lesser wages at source, therefore forcing workers who are covered by leglisation to accept wage cuts.


The employers are using immigration to reduce wages by taking advantage of loopholes in the law.

 

[audiotech]

No but it was to do with the employers, fighting unionisation on a grand scale, they were beat remember.

I'm assuming you're referring to the NUM? That was a phyrric victory for the Tories. I was referring to the Labour government who implemented cuts on the orders of the IMF.

Today employers are doing the same thing by proxy, instead of cutting wages they are employing migrant workers on lesser wages at source, therefore forcing workers who are covered by leglisation to accept wage cuts.


The employers are using immigration to reduce wages by taking advantage of loopholes in the law.

Some employers are yes, in certain sectors of the economy, but generally there is no evidence that employers are, accross the board, using immigration to reduce wages.

 

[Julie]

yep i'm in the bnp

 

[TonkaToy]

all your posts show that you have difficulty with basic english- well either that or you are a straightforward liar.

If you think the twat tonka toy isnt a little englander, you're even dimmer than I thought. But of course you have to try and say that I am referring to you (cos you are sooo important, everything is about you, isnt it?) to try and gain some 'sympathy'.

Now, fuck off back to school and learn how to read.

I'M FUCKING PROUD TO BE A LITTLE ENGLANDER.

I doubt you even no the meaning of the term.

I'm proud to be English.
I'm proud my parents taught me manners.

 

[TonkaToy]

but tonka .. all the people who employ the low wagers, illegal or not, are tories, with George flags on their mercs ..

or ukip or bnp even ..

I've just spotted this. Hypocrites come in call colours mate.

I very much doubt ALL the people who are low wage employers are Tories. I would imagine there would be a good old mix of colours when it comes to low wage payers.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

I'm proud to be English.
I'm proud my parents taught me manners.

English manners 1972 Derry

 

[TonkaToy]

English manners 1972 Derry

So what? Is there a point you are trying to make?

Are you trying to blame English people for that?

 

[TonkaToy]

England is the fucking best country on the planet and it always will be.

 

[JHE]

England is the fucking best country on the planet and it always will be.

...and is possibly the only country in which ardent patriotism is habitually expressed with such profanity.

 

[TonkaToy]

...and is possibly the only country in which ardent patriotism is habitually expressed with such profanity.

Fuck yeah!

 

[poster342002]

the BNP for instance have a campaign to create a 'landlords charter protecting those in private accomodation, when is the last time leftists did anything like that?

I sometimes get the feeling that the left gets the impression it shouldn't campaign on those issues because the right is doing so. A sort of looking-glass logic that goes: "The right is campaigning on such-and-such issue. Therefore we must not campaign on this issue - because if we do, it'll mean that we're right wing".

In effect, the left allows the parameters of their entire agenda to be set by the right.

 

[durruti02]

I've just spotted this. Hypocrites come in call colours mate.

I very much doubt ALL the people who are low wage employers are Tories. I would imagine there would be a good old mix of colours when it comes to low wage payers.

rubbish ... i can guarantee that 95% are tory the remainder in the UKIP or BNP .. of course when i say tory i mean new labour scum as well .. tbh all employers anyone who makes money from anothers sweat is scum to me

find me a left winger who employers cheap forign labour .. and yes i do NOT count trendys employing nannies and poles at cut price .. all scum to me mate

hypocrites .. you have no idea what modern conservatism is .. it is anti national anti tradition pro free trade and pro immigration ( er as is the new labour lot too ) if you want and are not overtly racist then i guess you are more UKIP than tory