Viaduct planned to connect three Manchester railway stations

[editor]

Plans for a viaduct to connect three Manchester railway stations have been submitted by Network Rail, with the Ordsall Chord set to link Piccadilly, Oxford Road and Victoria. Won't be an easy engineering task by the look of it either.

Network Rail said it would ease a "rail bottleneck" south of Piccadilly and enable more trains to travel through Manchester city centre.

The application to the Department for Transport follows an 18-month consultation. If approved, work could be completed by 2017.

The rail operating company said the new rail bridge would enable it to provide two more fast trains an hour between Manchester Victoria and Liverpool and Leeds and Manchester plus a direct service through Manchester city centre to Manchester Airport.

Network Rail added it will speed up journeys between Manchester, Leeds and Liverpool and Hull, Newcastle and the North East.

More: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-24122993

 

[Crispy]

This is all part of Northern Hub: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Hub which will make massive improvements to rail travel in the region.

 

[neonwilderness]

Looks like a good idea, but I think they'd need to add the extra platforms at Piccadilly before it was of any real use. I think the idea is to eventually run trains from Leeds through Victoria then round the new bit to Piccadilly (rather than reversing here) and onto the airport?

ETA: Crispy beat me to it!

 

[Crispy]

Yeah basically, E-W trains will go through Picadilly, N-S through Victoria.

 

[Dogsauce]

Gets rid of the preposterous slow crawl from Stalybridge round to Piccadilly, which is good - hopefully the approach to Victoria is a bit speedier (I think the time savings are supposed to be 8mins or so?)

Less good for connections I suppose as less trains will be routed Leeds-Piccadilly, and as someone who quite likes taking the cheaper option (than XC) of ATW when going down to Bristol this could be a modest inconvenience.

I think it's screwing up the link in to the transport museum, but not a huge deal when weighed against the benefits.

There's some other interesting stuff proposed as part of the Northern Way scheme, including possible reinstatement of the two old Standedge tunnel bores to create a four-track section (though checking wikipedia suggests this isn't now part of the proposals).

 

[neonwilderness]

Less good for connections I suppose as less trains will be routed Leeds-Piccadilly, and as someone who quite likes taking the cheaper option (than XC) of ATW when going down to Bristol this could be a modest inconvenience.

I think it's only the Liverpool trains that will avoid Piccadilly, the others will call there after Victoria on their way to the airport

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Hopefully this will deliver the benefits it promises too, and severing the connection to the Museum of Science and Industry is a price worth paying. It also doesn't look like it will involve much demolition of existing properties, as most of the route is across empty land if I remember rightly, apart from some flats on Liverpool Street perhaps.

And they are getting on with the refurbishment of Victoria - about time as that station is a total dump.

 

[kenny g]

And they are getting on with the refurbishment of Victoria - about time as that station is a total dump.

Pretty much sums up the whole area around Victoria. Last time I was there I was quite shocked how shit it was compared to pick er dilly.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Pretty much sums up the whole area around Victoria. Last time I was there I was quite shocked how shit it was compared to pick er dilly.

I Victoria has long suffered being located at the edge of town, and only used for local train services. But they are gradually improving the area, and it is better now than it was when I first moved to Manchester in the 90s.

I found out a while back at a talk on Victorian maps of Manchester that there was a large workhouse graveyard right by the station which presumably has now been built over. You've reminded me that I meant to look into this further to find out exactly where the site is and what is on it now.

 

[equationgirl]

That's the type of engineering challenge engineers love

 

[Frances Lengel]

I Victoria has long suffered being located at the edge of town, and only used for local train services. But they are gradually improving the area, and it is better now than it was when I first moved to Manchester in the 90s.

I found out a while back at a talk on Victorian maps of Manchester that there was a large workhouse graveyard right by the station which presumably has now been built over. You've reminded me that I meant to look into this further to find out exactly where the site is and what is on it now.

This place?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/manchester/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8233000/8233388.stm

Bounded by Rochdale Road, Miller Street, Cheetham Hill Road, and Gould Street, Angel Meadow covered 33 acres on the edge of the city centre.

The most infamous part of Angel Meadow was the former burial ground of St Michael's Church, which contained the mass graves of 40,000 paupers.

Unpaved for 40 years, it was finally laid with flagstones and thereafter known as 'The Flags.' A resident of Rochdale Road described it thus:
"There was at one time a number of gravestones covering the remains of some dear lost ones, but these have been removed and a few are to be seen in some of the cottages... Very often are the bones of the dead exposed and carried away and a human skull has been kicked about for a football on the ground."

 

[SpookyFrank]

I think it's screwing up the link in to the transport museum, but not a huge deal when weighed against the benefits.

I never realised there was a train line to the Museum of Science and Industry, which is a bit daft as I used to work directly opposite the place

 

[farmerbarleymow]

This place?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/manchester/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8233000/8233388.stm

Wasn't that site, although it would be very close by. This place was a workhouse roughly where Victoria station is today, and it had a fair sized burial ground (unsurprisingly a lot of the inmates didn't get out alive!), and must be in the immediate environs of the station. This site was depicted on a map from around 1840/50 I think, which I saw while at the John Rylands Library a while back.

I'll have a dig to see what I can find - I've spent an hour or so looking at volcanoes on google maps, so time to look for something more local!

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Right, this link 'should' work to the map in question - if you look for Walkers Croft right next to the station you'll see that it is slap bang in front. So a different one to the Angel Meadows area, but the workhouse was at the back of the station, and I think they were connected in some way, or at least so far as someone at the talk was telling me.

http://enriqueta.man.ac.uk/luna/ser...C~4~4,nonconform~91~1,ManchesterDev~93~3&mi=0#

We were all puzzled when looking at the map the depiction of the River Irk running right past this site (and skirting the station), as none of us knew the river must be culverted through this part of town.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Here are some other links for old maps you can access for free:

http://www.manchester.ac.uk/aboutus/news/display/?id=9245 - intro page.

http://www.library.manchester.ac.uk/searchresources/mapsandatlases/onlinemapcollection/

http://www.oldmapsonline.org/#bbox=...232349,53.492054&q=&datefrom=1000&dateto=2010

I love maps, especially old ones.

 

[editor]

First train has crossed the Ordsall Chord

Passengers cheered as the Northern Rail train crossed the Irwell beneath the distinctive steel spokes of the 1,600 tonne bridge, built on the site where George Stephenson founded the modern railway in 1830.

But excitement over this crucial moment in history was tempered by concern over the future of rail investment in the north.

Experts have said the Chord can only fulfil its potential with expansions to Piccadilly and Oxford Road stations - but Government investment is now in doubt.

Andy Barclay, 50, a civil engineer, said: “It’s such a monumental historic occasion - I’ve seen the bridge being built form my bedroom window. This has changed the geography of England, this ranks up there with the original railways. But after unleashing the wave of investment in railways, it’s stupidity not to invest in Piccadilly and Oxford Road stations. It makes the Ordsall Chord only half useful. I understand investment has got to be staggered, but it needs to happen.”

First train crosses the Ordsall Chord and makes railway history

The viaduct is intentionally rusty too.

Bridge architect Peter Jenkins from BDP says the team thought long and hard over the rust question.

Painting the steel was an option on the table - but their favourite approach was to leave the natural finish of weathered steel.

He added: “This is because it relates to the materials around it - all the fantastic heritage structures made out of stone and brick. Those materials don’t have a perfect surface, bricks can be different colours, the stone of Stephenson’s bridge is three different colours.

“We wanted the arch to contrast and also complement them - there isn’t a perfect colour finish or texture and we were keen to have that richness.”

Why does the brand new Ordsall Chord look 'rusty'?

 

[farmerbarleymow]

It's been interesting to watch it being built, along with widening the viaduct towards Oxford Road station. But the Piccadilly upgrade has been up in the air for a while now and I wouldn't be surprised if they either cancel it or scale it back.

Needs doing though - Platform 13/14 gets ridiculously crowded at rush hour.

 

[Mumbles274]

Slightly off topic, as it's a model.. But if you want to be amazed at what some people make, spend a hour or so browsing this thread

Manchester Central, CLC & GN Warehouses & Castlefield Viaducts - Modelling real locations

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Slightly off topic, as it's a model.. But if you want to be amazed at what some people make, spend a hour or so browsing this thread

Manchester Central, CLC & GN Warehouses & Castlefield Viaducts - Modelling real locations

That's quite some dedication. I wonder if they're planning to replicate all the bridges and viaducts in Castlefield - that would take them a while.

 

[Mumbles274]

That's quite some dedication. I wonder if they're planning to replicate all the bridges and viaducts in Castlefield - that would take them a while.

I think they have!? It really is an unbelievable model

 

[A380]

I hope they haven’t wasted too much on this Northern project. For the same price we could have had some slightly nicer tiles on one Crossrail station.

A far better use of transport infrastructure funding I’m sure we can all agree.

 

[Dogsauce]

I think they have!? It really is an unbelievable model

Page 94 of the thread has some good pics of the viaduct.

Manchester Central, CLC & GN Warehouses & Castlefield Viaducts - Page 94 - Modelling real locations

Incredible detailing, particularly as much of it won't be visible. He's basically building them as the originals were built, all structural members accurate, as a tribute to the original builders. The latest brass stuff even has the rivets on the bottom of the decking. The absolute dedication to detail is breathtaking.

For the station roof structure, just read the ten or so pages starting here:

Manchester Central, CLC & GN Warehouses & Castlefield Viaducts - Page 103 - Modelling real locations

It's about two metres long too.

 

[Mumbles274]

It's mind boggling!! I went through the whole thread a while ago

 

[Mumbles274]

The clock even works!