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Urgent advice required - notice to quit from Poplar Harca

LeytonCatLady

LeytonCatLady

Well-Known Member
Some of you may know I've been living with a mate (J) and his partner (C) since 2018. J died suddenly in April and it's been an absolute ballache for C, getting everything sorted out - death registered, funeral, bills etc. - on top of the grief itself. Our landlord is Poplar Harca, a housing association of Tower Hamlets. After C registered J's death, she had a letter from Tower Hamlets council expressing condolences for the loss and advising her to claim Universal Credit, which she did. She had her first payment last week but not the rent element as Poplar Harca hadn't yet prepared the new tenancy agreement with her name on it. C chased them again and was told the person she'd spoken to previously had gone on furlough and wasn't taking calls, but they were aware of the situation and dealing with it.

This evening, we've had a hand delivered Notice to Quit through the door asking us to leave by 13th September. I don't know if this has been computer generated, and of course the offices are shut and we can't call anyone to clarify. C said not to worry, she'll call them in the morning and sort it out, but it seems none of them talk to each other! C's his partner and should legally be able to inherit the tenancy, the council were already aware of that and we're pretty pissed off as well as worried that this seems to be being ignored. The notice was addressed to J and the reason given for the notice was because "the deceased does not have a successor".

In the meantime, we'd be grateful for any advice people have in case the worst happens. C has already been keeping them abreast of the situation but just in case they don't pull their finger out their arse -

  • Does anyone know who we can go to for emergency accommodation (anywhere in London will do)?
  • And does anyone know of any landlords who don't require a deposit and will accept UC, as neither of us has any spare cash?

Thank you so much.
 
I'd recommend talking to shelter or any local housing advice people (I don't know the patch well enough to offer specifics)

And local council's housing people

Passing on social tenancies is not an automatic right except possibly with joint tenants, and sounds complicated if C wasn't ever on the tenancy agreement (this may also cause issues in claiming the housing element of UC)



Is this housing association an arms-length part of the council? (not quite sure whether you mean that or just if they are in tower hamlets) - contacting local councillor/s may be worth a try (for that matter they may be able to offer some assistance anyway)

If it comes to having to move out, local council's housing people may have info on people who will accept tenants without a deposit / on benefits, and / or may have some form of tenancy deposit scheme (again, I don't have any specific local knowledge)

It may be worth saying that I did see some adverts a few years back in one or two london local papers from some bunch who gave the general impression (without quite saying so) that they were a government / council agency, and would help potential tenants without a deposit, just ring this (bloody expensive, premium rate) phone number. i hope they have either been fire-bombed or shut down by now, but tread carefully...

Other than hoping you get it sorted, all I can suggest is seeking properly clued up help
 
Puddy_Tat said:
I'd recommend talking to shelter or any local housing advice people (I don't know the patch well enough to offer specifics)

And local council's housing people

Other than hoping you get it sorted, all I can suggest is seeking properly clued up help
Click to expand...
This^. Absolutely. Best of luck.
 
Thank you guys. I'm going to phone Housing Options in the morning and try to get an appointment with them. C will phone Poplar tomorrow and remind them to register her name as the resident, but my fear is how can we trust them to do that now when they didn't bother before? I think we need to cover ourselves with other options just in case!

Puddy_Tat , yes, Poplar Harca is owned by Tower Hamlets council. J moved into the flat in 2007 and C moved in with him in 2018, shortly before I did. So she wasn't on the original tenancy agreement, but J did contact the council and declare each of us as he knew it would affect his housing benefit. His benefits were adjusted accordingly, and I know me and C are both listed as residents.
 
Is C registered at the address?
If C is not named on the tenancy does the tenancy include a right to succession on it (on most secure tenancies and some assured, depending on landlord and issue date)?
 
Rutita1 said:
Is C registered at the address?
If C is not named on the tenancy does the tenancy include a right to succession on it (on most secure tenancies and some assured, depending on landlord and issue date)?
Click to expand...

Hi Rutita1

Yes, C is registered at this address.

We found the tenancy agreement when clearing out J's stuff after his death. There was only one page of it which included the rent amount and tenancy start date (December 2007), so not sure about succession and can't find any general information on their site. Every time C asks, she's told they can't tell her due to data protection, she has to explain she's his partner and it's just an endless catch 22. :mad: But J definitely changed the tenancy so she was on there.
 
LeytonCatLady said:
Hi Rutita1

Yes, C is registered at this address.

We found the tenancy agreement when clearing out J's stuff after his death. There was only one page of it which included the rent amount and tenancy start date (December 2007), so not sure about succession and can't find any general information on their site. Every time C asks, she's told they can't tell her due to data protection, she has to explain she's his partner and it's just an endless catch 22. :mad: But J definitely changed the tenancy so she was on there.
Click to expand...


Does it say secure or assured tenancy on the paperwork?

The fact that they quote data protection to her when she inquires even though she has liaised with them about the death and whatnot is worrying given the circumstances. I am honestly concerned for her given she has only been there since 2018 also. Some SH landlords/councils want more evidence of residence etc. They can evict for rent arrears and also because she doesn't have a tenancy in her name. Does her GP have a Link worker attached? Is there a local CAB type advice service that she can get support from? I live and work in SE London now but still have links to TH so can ask around for possible support?
 
Rutita1 said:
Does it say secure or assured tenancy on the paperwork?

The fact that they quote data protection to her when she inquires even though she has liaised with them about the death and whatnot is worrying given the circumstances. I am honestly concerned for her given she has only been there since 2018 also. Some SH landlords/councils want more evidence of residence etc. They can evict for rent arrears and also because she doesn't have a tenancy in her name. Does her GP have a Link worker attached? Is there a local CAB type advice service that she can get support from? I live and work in SE London now but still have links to TH so can ask around for possible support?
Click to expand...

C's gone to bed now but if my memory is correct, I think it said assured tenancy. I'll have to confirm that with her though. Yes, any information you can find will be most appreciated, thanks.

Of course I know there's only so much can be done at this time of night, but we'll see what PH say in the morning, and it may be best for us to try and arrange alternative accommodation anyway, as they don't seem to know what they're doing.
 
From a look at the Poplar Harca site (Frequently Asked Questions | Poplar HARCA ),it looks like it’s standard procedure to send the notice to quit in the event of a tenant’s death.
We understand that when loved ones pass away this can be a difficult and worrying time. We therefore aim to make the process as easy as possible.

When this happens, either:

  • Poplar HARCA will serve a Notice to Quit on the property (as required by law).
    or
  • A person who has been elected to deal with the resident’s affairs can complete a DT1 Form to end the tenancy.
You can apply to succeed this tenancy if:

  • you are a family member of the tenant and were living at the property at the time of their death
  • you were living at the address for at least 12 months prior to the tenant’s death, and can provide proof of this
To apply, complete a Succession Application Form, providing as much proof as possible of your residency and proof of your relationship to the tenant, and email the forms to us. Applications must be submitted within one month of the tenant’s death.
Click to expand...
That last sentence is the worrying part, but given the current situation re COVID etc, and people dealing with the case being furloughed, it sounds like it should be possible to sort out, so best of luck.
 
Lazy Llama said:
From a look at the Poplar Harca site (Frequently Asked Questions | Poplar HARCA ),it looks like it’s standard procedure to send the notice to quit in the event of a tenant’s death.

That last bit is the worrying part.
It sounds like it should be possible to sort out, so best of luck.
Click to expand...
Thank you! That looks like the answer. I was looking for something like that, but it's a pretty shit website to navigate. I'll let C know in the morning, and I'll tell you guys how it goes.
 
Rutita1 said:
oryx or marty21 might have some advice to offer but may not be available just now.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tag!

My days of housing management are long gone but I'll have a go. marty21 will have much more up to date knowledge than me.

It's important to remember you can't be made to leave without a court order, and AFAIK the coronavirus has meant there will be a huge backlog of court proceedings.

LeytonCatLady said:
She had her first payment last week but not the rent element as Poplar Harca hadn't yet prepared the new tenancy agreement with her name on it.
Click to expand...

This suggests they were going to give her a tenancy. It's possible the NTQ is them just covering their backs but this should have been made clear. (ETA - previous posts have covered this).

I would suggest C. getting on to the HA as she has suggested and being really firm with them about this being an urgent situation as a NTQ has been served. I know people working for (other) HAs and they are all working from home so there should be someone able to answer her query.

As others have suggested, it is a good idea to get onto Shelter depending on what the HA say. Tenancy succession can be a complicated area depending on the type of tenancy etc.

Shelter website advice on succession here: Shelter Legal England - Succession: Periodic assured tenancies

I think the difference between an assured & secure tenancy is that with an assured one only one succession is allowed.

Good luck LeytonCatLady. I hope you can get it sorted and stay in your home.
 
Hi guys, just to update you...

I didn't sleep too well last night and didn't surface until late morning. C was out all day, when she got in she said "Just to say the NTQ is in hand and being dealt with" but refused to discuss it further as it stressed her out too much. I need to know a bit more than that really, as it affects me too, but you can't shift her when she's in that kind of mood. I do understand she's overwhelmed emotionally, and that it's hard enough processing the loss of J without all this, but I'm scared she's burying her head in the sand. I've also noticed this when I've tried talking to her about bills. It is a hard adjustment to make - for ages, J did all that and we didn't have to worry about it, now that's all changed. I don't want to stress or upset C, but I do need to know where I stand. :(

I've been trying to get through to the council all day hoping to get an appointment with Housing Options in case I need to find alternative accommodation, but it keeps ringing out, and when I emailed, I got a confirmation receipt saying "An officer will contact you within 10 working days". I've asked around various people I know, who have said they'll let me know if any of their friends in London have a spare room etc. I think I might have to see if my mum will help me out with a deposit for a room, which I'll hate doing, because she doesn't have a lot of money herself, and it'll hurt my pride. Before I resort to that, though, I need to pluck up the courage to ask C what she means by "in hand" without stressing her further, as I could be worrying about nothing.
 
I hope it means that everything's OK and the tenancy is being transferred to her.

I can totally understand you wanting to know more ASAP - who wouldn't? Hopefully she will be more forthcoming tomorrow.

You are sensible to be proactive and to start Plan B's, but (again) hopefully it won't be needed.

Keep us posted when you're able to. :)
 
C still being slightly cagey today, unfortunately - won't say any more than "You don't need to bother about that, CatLady".

However, the good news is I've spoken to my mum and told her the situation and that I was really sorry, but I might need her help to find a room before 13th September. She said "That's the first time you've ever asked me for money! Of course I'll help." Apparently she thought I'd always been too independent for my own good, and gently told me off about not being too proud because that's what family's for. She said she had a stash that she's been adding to for years in case any of her kids get stuck, and just don't pick any old where. (She also said I'd be welcome to stay with her in Birmingham if I was desperate, but I explained that would make it difficult to find somewhere in London, which I now consider home, and she understood that.)
 
We've received the quarterly rent statement from Poplar Harca which shows £1200 in arrears. Not only that, but it was addressed to J again, so they're still ignoring that he's FUCKING DEAD!!! :mad: I urged C to phone them and push for a tenancy change so she can claim the rental element of UC; and ask for a manager if she has to because they're clearly not listening. To my horror, she just binned it and clammed up, refusing to discuss it. I don't know what else I can do to help her, other than give advice based on what I'd do.

Do you guys think I'd be unreasonable to wash my hands of this whole situation and just concentrate on finding somewhere else to live? The other thing is, I've always got on with C and feel I should let her know that I'm going to move on. But she keeps getting drunk to the point of not understanding what I'm saying to her. I know she's probably depressed about J, and I'll feel guilty for leaving her, but if she won't tell me what Poplar Harca said regarding the NTQ and the security of our home here, I don't see what choice I have. Maybe she's hoping the situation will somehow go away if she ignores it, and as has been said, there'll probably be a backlog of court cases anyway, which may delay a court order until well after 13 September. But that's not a chance I'm comfortable taking.

TLDR: Need to find somewhere else to live by 13 September but feel guilty about leaving C, even though I really don't have much choice.
 
Thank you. It's a hard situation to explain without feeling like I'm gossiping about her, but that's really not my intention at all. C's an adult and I know I can't force her to take action if she doesn't want to, and I can't stop her drinking (and I drink too, so I'd be a hypocrite) but all the same, when it's someone you know and like it's hard not to feel you could have done more, you know? I've confidentially asked the advice of a real life friend too and he thinks I've done all I can do and I need to look out for myself now. I just don't know how she'll cope when I go, considering she still asks me how to use the gas/leccy meter and operate the central heating. J showed us both when he was alive, but C always left it to me. If she sobers up, I'll talk with her about it and let her know I'm going to find other accommodation. But she's been pissed now for the best part of a week, and yesterday was struggling to stand up. I only hope she doesn't drink herself to death before I leave. :(
 
Just seen this ,apologies . Has your friend applied for succession , provided the tenancy does allow it , they should actually apply for it. Technically, until succession is agreed, they are not liable for the rent as they aren't the tenant (although they may accept payments from an authorised or unauthorised occupant. )

Once succession is agreed (don't know all the circs) the old tenancy would be terminated from the Sunday following the death.

At the moment Councils or HAs can't apply to court for possession , they have probably served the NTQ to protect themselves, nothing will happen on the day the notice ends, they would then have to apply to court for possession (and can't until October I think) even then, there will be a huge wait for hearing dates as the courts will be overwhelmed, and there are less courts dealing with possession cases following a reduction in housing courts a few years ago.

UC should be able to pay the rent element from the Monday following the death (assuming succession is agreed).

PM me if you want.
 
Lazy Llama said:
From a look at the Poplar Harca site (Frequently Asked Questions | Poplar HARCA ),it looks like it’s standard procedure to send the notice to quit in the event of a tenant’s death.

That last sentence is the worrying part, but given the current situation re COVID etc, and people dealing with the case being furloughed, it sounds like it should be possible to sort out, so best of luck.
Click to expand...
it is standard procedure , it is done to protect the Landlord's interest , should succession not be agreed and they have to apply for succession.
 
marty21 said:
Just seen this ,apologies . Has your friend applied for succession , provided the tenancy does allow it , they should actually apply for it. Technically, until succession is agreed, they are not liable for the rent as they aren't the tenant (although they may accept payments from an authorised or unauthorised occupant. Once succession is agreed (don't know all the circs) the old tenancy would be terminated from the Sunday following the death.

At the moment Councils or HAs can't apply to court for possession , they have probably served the NTQ to protect themselves, nothing will happen on the day the notice ends, they would then have to apply to court for possession (and can't until October I think) even then, there will be a huge wait for hearing dates as the courts will be overwhelmed, and there are less courts dealing with possession cases following a reduction in housing courts a few years ago.

UC should be able to pay the rent element from the Monday following the death (assuming succession is agreed).

PM me if you want.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this. As above, she told me it was in hand but refused to give me further details as it stressed her to talk about it, and the other day ripped up a quarterly rent statement showing £1200 in arrears. Which was still addressed to J, so she either hasn't applied for succession or they're ignoring her. Long story short, I don't know where I stand as C won't tell me, so I'm looking for new accommodation, but feel guilty for leaving her as she's drinking too much and is clearly in a bad way. :(
 
LeytonCatLady said:
Thanks for this. As above, she told me it was in hand but refused to give me further details as it stressed her to talk about it, and the other day ripped up a quarterly rent statement showing £1200 in arrears. Which was still addressed to J, so she either hasn't applied for succession or they're ignoring her. Long story short, I don't know where I stand as C won't tell me, so I'm looking for new accommodation, but feel guilty for leaving her as she's drinking too much and is clearly in a bad way. :(
Click to expand...
It's a difficult situation, I would have amended the system so the 'tenant' is called UO (Unauthorised Occupant ) getting rent statements with your dead partner's name on them is shitty .
 
Lazy Llama said:
From a look at the Poplar Harca site (Frequently Asked Questions | Poplar HARCA ),it looks like it’s standard procedure to send the notice to quit in the event of a tenant’s death.

That last sentence is the worrying part, but given the current situation re COVID etc, and people dealing with the case being furloughed, it sounds like it should be possible to sort out, so best of luck.
Click to expand...
None of the employees in my Housing Department have been furloughed, seems strange that the Harca are doing it . We are mostly wfh , until October at least. But we are still working, still answering the phone, etc.
 
:( What a tricky situation. I feel for you and also for your landlady who is not coping by the sound of it.

Just a thought - it may be worth approaching the local authority to say you are threatened with homelessness.

It used to be that LAs would only provide housing (i.e. temporary accommodation until a permanent solution is found) to people who are classed as 'vulnerable', i.e. those with children, or physical or mental health problems. There was a statutory duty to provide advice and assistance to those who fall outside these categories.

The LA may approach Poplar HARCA to investigate why you are being threatened with homelessness and this may give them a kick up the backside to get it sorted so you know where you stand.

Interested to see if anyone with more recent knowledge of housing law/policy and practice knows any more about this.

But, as marty21 has said, nothing will happen on the day the notice expires.
 
oryx said:
The LA may approach Poplar HARCA to investigate why you are being threatened with homelessness and this may give them a kick up the backside to get it sorted so you know where you stand.
Click to expand...

I didn't think of that! Yes, that's a good idea. I've been sent a form to fill in by Tower Hamlets so I'll send that to them Monday, and when I get an appointment will mention this to them. But it'll probably be quicker to find a room in a privately rented houseshare anyway, as that's usually a case of first come first served.
 
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