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Unwarrented Censorship

fela fan said:
That's what it's all about isn't it? Deriding people with the wrong opinions, laying into them, attempting to humiliate them, appealing to the common crowd to wade in with similar bully blows.
Not 'wrong opinions' but ill-researched, incorrect information. 'Lies,' if you like.

If some new poster's going to charge in here and tell me that I'm somehow too stupid to see 'the truth', I expect them to be at least able to back up their version with some basic research and credible evidence.
 
fela fan said:
No mate, try again. And in any case, what is this 'narrative' you speak of?
Er ... the government narrative of the events of 7 July which is being produced and which, because there hasn't been such a thing before, non-one knows what it will look like.

Please tell me that you were joking when you asked what it was? It has been a central part of the discussion of whether or not there should be a public enquiry ever since it was first proposed months ago.
 
detective-boy said:
Please tell me that you were joking when you asked what it was? It has been a central part of the discussion of whether or not there should be a public enquiry ever since it was first proposed months ago.

fela likes to employ his instincts on these matters and real-life information can easily get in the way of that. :D
 
fela fan said:
Absolute bullshit.

You pass yourself off to be some kind of expert over this 7/7 event, just coz you were there. Yet, and in calling for a public enquiry over this event, you then say this to me about the 911 event. Can you not see the irony here??

Now then BK, you just tootle off and scan the contents of this link

http://www.cooperativeresearch.net/project.jsp?project=911_project

and repeat your assinine comments to me. Reducing the whole of 911 to 'bumwipe'??? Do you really expect people to take you seriously with such a dreadfully poor level of debate?


I should be clear that I have fuck all interest in 9/11, and I refer to the toipic of this thread, which is 7/7. The MSM have covered the Visor/Power conspiracy and found it to be arse. I was referrign to 7/7., not 9/11. fela fan
I have repeatedly said and I'll say it again in this thread, I do not have an interest in 9/11 other than sadness at such a dreadful loss of life. I have not got involved in alt. theorires about it.
As to the 7/7 stuff, I am not an expert but I am close to it, not just because I was on the train but because of 10 months of contact with lots of relevant people - 100 + other survivors, police, politicians, investigative journalssts and bereaved families, LU staff. That's my link, not just the personal experience. I have done a lot of research and found out as much as I can. I tend to be interested in strangers attempting to murder me, and succeeding in killing dozens of others others, see.

I read the news, I talk to people, I follow up everyhting I can. I'm probably slightly obsessed, still. The difference is , I don't start from the base line that EVERYTHING IS A GIANT CONSPIRACY AND THE GOVERNMENT/JEWS/MASONS ETC DID IT.
 
detective-boy said:
Er ... the government narrative of the events of 7 July which is being produced and which, because there hasn't been such a thing before, non-one knows what it will look like.

Please tell me that you were joking when you asked what it was? It has been a central part of the discussion of whether or not there should be a public enquiry ever since it was first proposed months ago.

I wasn't joking mate. I have no real interest in 7/7, and have nothing to really refute the commonly accepted version of what happened.

My interest lies with 911, and how such staggering levels of incompetence went both unpunished and uninvestigated.
 
editor said:
Nope. You're a conspiraloon - you've only got to look at some of bollocks you've written in the past for proof of that.

But if denial's your thing, feel free, but you're not kidding anyone.

Well there we go then, if i'm a conspiraloon then i can categorically say you've got it all fucked up man. You're confused, that's okay though.

Now then, the man who loves to ask for evidence, supply some to back up your claim i'm a 'conspiraloon'.

Go on, evidence please, and peer-reviewed stuff would be all the more welcome. EVIDENCE MATE, that's what the forum needs, evidence that i'm a denier. Go on, give it your best shot.

Y'see, i've exposed you and your comrades who bark on about conspiraloons. The most anyone's come up with is lock who managed five. And one of those is certainly wrong, coz i'm not one.

Fucking bullshit, that's all it is.
 
Lock&Light said:
fela likes to employ his instincts on these matters and real-life information can easily get in the way of that. :D

What's wrong with instinct lock?

And is instinct not real life? Is it fake life? What the fuck are you on about?
 
fela fan said:
I have no real interest in 7/7, and have nothing to really refute the commonly accepted version of what happened.

My interest lies with 911...

.. and mine doesn't which is why I said the 'bumwipe' comment about 7/7 not 9/11 since 9/11 is NOT the topic here and I have no interest in 9/11, other than sadness at the deaths of thousands.
 
fela fan said:
JUST TWO??? Is that the whole list???

And far as i'm concerned, you're wrong.

So that leaves a POSSIBLE ONE.

Kudos for at least trying to answer, even if you're at least 50% wrong.

yeah but you're a bleedin nutter


tell us about the mirrors, go on
 
Badger Kitten said:
I read the news, I talk to people, I follow up everyhting I can. I'm probably slightly obsessed, still. The difference is , I don't start from the base line that EVERYTHING IS A GIANT CONSPIRACY AND THE GOVERNMENT/JEWS/MASONS ETC DID IT.

No, what comes through most clearly in your posts on this matter is the word 'I'.

It is all about you and your experience.

Unfortunately that's not enough for facts and evidence.
 
Blagsta said:
yeah but you're a bleedin nutter


tell us about the mirrors, go on

Mate, if i'm a nutter, then i'm a nutter. Anything you want me to be i am.

Simple innit.

Mirrors? What the fuck are you on about?
 
feel a fanny

you know what I'm on about you loon

go on tell us about the mirrors

oh, and tell us about how you think your the descendant of Freud while you're at it
 
fela fan said:
Oh, and a reminder: can anyone let the forum know who all these 'conspiraloon' urban posters are? Thus far i'm encountering deafening silence to my question.
Why should anyone indulge you by making a list of people who have come onto u75 and spouted crap? In any case the original reference was just to "conspiraloons" generally, not talking about specific long term u75 posters. Having said that there is every indication that people at the 9-11 forum are reading this thread - it is even linked to over there - and so the invitation should be considered extended to anyone over there including the two or three people who have come here from there and posted on this thread (as well as however many are simply reading it without posting).

I really suggest you go and register over there and discuss 9-11 as much as you want without being censored, pilloried or persecuted. You know full well that this stuff is not welcome here and you know full well why and the history behind it.

You are completely free to go to forums where people are happy to discuss this or start your own forum:

Why do you keep banging on about u75 and how you don't like the policies here? Why do you stay? A lot of other people have got off their arse and moved to forums that are more to their liking, and it is very easy to find them. These forums would even have people you already know and who know of who from reading u75, so it isn't even as if you would have to start from zero.

Why are you still here banging on about how evil and stupid this place is?
 
fela fan said:
Unfortunately that's not enough for facts and evidence.
Damn sight more than the clueless buffoonery I've seen posted up from conspiraloons allergic to research and credible sources.
 
fela fan said:
But look, who are these people on urban? Who are these 'true-believers', who are these 'conspiracy theorists'? <snip>
Well, the point of what I was attempting earlier was to come up with a way to tell the difference.

I can think of a few possible criteria that we might perhaps use to make a distinction between what I'm calling 'true-believers' and people who simply entertain doubts that the government and/or the various state security organisations, can be relied upon to tell the truth about stuff like this.

The two main characteristics that make me tag someone as a probable conspiracy theorist or true-believer are:

1) Claiming to follow accepted standards of evidence and logic but not actually doing so, or only doing so selectively and instead using information of poor provenance and/or logical fallacies to argue their point of view.

2) Where this is also a point of view which ascribes the events in question to some hidden conspiracy, rather than to more prosaic factors such as institutional interest or attempts to cover up routine incompetence or blowback from poor judgment by state security agencies or politicians.

Both of these things have to be the case for the tag to be legitimate, at least in my mind. Simply doubting the statements of government spokesmen does not automatically make someone a conspiracy theorist.

Similarly, if someone doesn't or can't follow what I'd see as reasonable standards of evidence and logic, but doesn't advocate conspiratorial explanations of particular events, that may make them a sloppy thinker, but not necessarily a conspiracy theorist.

I'd apply an extra criterion before calling someone a 'true-believer' though and comparing them to cultists, freepers and other religious nuts however.

3) Behaving in a way that indicates that an emotional attachment or existential committment to some particular theory is taking priority over facts and logic.

A good example of this might be accusing someone of being a state agent or a racist or both, on the sole grounds that they stated a belief that 7/7 was the work of British muslims, where the person in question holds it as an article of faith that this was not the case.

I was trying to come up with a test for the latter characteristic based on some theories I was entertaining about why people might want to act in that way. I'm not sure that the idea was particularly successful however.
 
Badger Kitten said:
.. and mine doesn't which is why I said the 'bumwipe' comment about 7/7 not 9/11 since 9/11 is NOT the topic here and I have no interest in 9/11, other than sadness at the deaths of thousands.

Well that exposes your weakness. The two events are closely related, and understanding one can help to understanding the other.

If you could solve 911, then you will solve 7/7.

As for your sadness, i trust that extends to the millions of humans killed off by american forelgn policy, and to a lesser degree, UK foreign policy...
 
editor said:
Have you forgotten about your 'mirrors' already, matey, mate McMate?

course i haven't forgotten about them.

Interestingly nor have the likes of you or blagsta.

Nice to know i reserve a special place in both of your brains. Am i in your hearts too...
 
fela fan said:
No, what comes through most clearly in your posts on this matter is the word 'I'.

It is all about you and your experience.

Unfortunately that's not enough for facts and evidence.

Nope, I use 'I' because I am not going to use 'we' and talk about all survivors.

You got the hump because you thought I was saying your pet theory about 9/11 is bumwipe. I was talking about 7/7 not 9/11. Where the MSM have investigated the most popular conspiracy theory and found it to be a load of arse.

When I wrote about my experience I use 'I'. When I write about other survivoirs I tell their stories. When I talk to police, investigative journalists, LU staff, other survivors I just listen.

What 'facts' and 'evidence' do you expect me to produce? Photos of Germaine Lindsey self-detonating? Guided tours of the carriage? Pieces of shrapnel?

:rolleyes:


Now, YOUR 'facts and evidence', s'il vous plait...
 
Blagsta said:
you know what I'm on about you loon

go on tell us about the mirrors

oh, and tell us about how you think your the descendant of Freud while you're at it

You know what mate, it's real interesting to me that you remember so much about me. Maybe my mirror shines more brightly...
 
Blagsta said:
fela fan
Jazzz
Come on, I don't think it is fair to drag Jazzz into this thread/fight if he hasn't posted here. fela is just trying to make people do a "call out" - I don't think we should enlist a 'team' for him. If they want to come and back him up they will do so themselves.
 
fela fan said:
Well that exposes your weakness. The two events are closely related, and understanding one can help to understanding the other.

If you could solve 911, then you will solve 7/7.

As for your sadness, i trust that extends to the millions of humans killed off by american forelgn policy, and to a lesser degree, UK foreign policy...


They are NOT related, and the presupposoition that they are and that it is A CONSPIRACY is what makes conspiracy theorists' arguments so pathetic. How can you be ''an independent truth seeker'' if you start from the basis of trying to prove a conspiratorial link between two totally different events?

And yes, my sadness extends to the victims of all wars and foreign policies, as anyone who spent time during the last 15 years at peace marches would know. :rolleyes:
 
Badger Kitten said:
Nope, I use 'I' because I am not going to use 'we' and talk about all survivors.

You got the hump because you thought I was saying your pet theory about 9/11 is bumwipe. I was talking about 7/7 not 9/11. Where the MSM have investigated the most popular conspiracy theory and found it to be a load of arse.

I didn't get the hump.

But it's interesting that you thought i did. As if i could be arsed about what someone wrote on an internet forum.

Life's far too much fun to be bothered about some pseudonym and their mutterings.
 
TeeJay said:
Come on, I don't think it is fair to drag Jazzz into this thread/fight if he hasn't posted here. fela is just trying to make people do a "call out" - I don't think we should enlist a 'team' for him. If they want to come and back him up they will do so themselves.

Jazzz is a loon though
 
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