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Tory Death Spiral

existentialist said:
The problem is that, at every turn, he is being rubbished and undermined by people whose agenda is barely distinguishable from that of the Tories. It is extremely difficult to look good when every time you utter anything, both the opposition and your own people are turning on you.

I'm not saying that Corbyn is the Messiah, but I find it very interesting that a party supposedly of the Left is as eager as Labour evidently is to skewer someone who, by any standard, is only really quite moderately to the left of centre. He's not bloody Che Guevara, any more than he's the Messiah.
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No but he is a canary in the coalmine, illustrating what happens if you fuck with the program even a little bit. The entire political establishment is invested in the neoliberal consensus and will abandon democracy, truth and decency in a mouse's heartbeat to protect that consensus and silence the heretic.
 
kebabking said:
I would put reasonable money on very discreet conversations of that nature having been held...

Johnson knows he's going nowhere in the Tory party, he has his fans among the MP's, but he needs 150+ of them to get on the list that goes to the membership - problem is that he is widely loathed by Tory MP's, to the extent that there are hard Brexiteers who would prefer Hammond, Hunt, Rudd, Williamson, or, indeed, pretty much anyone other than Johnson.

The 'anyone but Boris' group is broadly reckoned to have 250 MP's in it - he'll never get near the leadership now, and his ego is such that he'd take leadership of UKIP and being a scruffy looking Nigel Farage over being a tory backbencher.
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It's interesting watching a politician who really has nothing in his locker other than self interest. Blair believed in nothing, but that itself was a kind of belief, a shabby managerialism. But with Johnson, it's as if Alan Partridge went to Eton. The idea that a man who rehearsed being an anti-Brexit campaigner before taking his current path is just off the scale for hypocrisy. Not really sure where he's going with this burka thing though it certainly pushes him towards the ukip, alt-right weirdo fringe, but that's hardly a viable project - unless he sees himself as the messiah of a new Trumpite party (unlikely, even for him). Irony is, he probably missed his best chance when gove intervened last time. A mixture of clown and coward.
 
The problem with Alexander Boris Johnson's Telegraph column aren't the remark's themselves (every body is entitled to an opinion.) Its more the breach in Ministerial Code, he made in making them. Talked this through with my Mum, who started with "oh but he needs a job", well he's got one - MP for Uxbridge. If he has money difficulties now, what has he been doing with his property while living in a grace and favour home?
 
Wilf said:
It's interesting watching a politician who really has nothing in his locker other than self interest. Blair believed in nothing, but that itself was a kind of belief, a shabby managerialism. But with Johnson, it's as if Alan Partridge went to Eton. The idea that a man who rehearsed being an anti-Brexit campaigner before taking his current path is just off the scale for hypocrisy. Not really sure where he's going with this burka thing though it certainly pushes him towards the ukip, alt-right weirdo fringe, but that's hardly a viable project - unless he sees himself as the messiah of a new Trumpite party (unlikely, even for him). Irony is, he probably missed his best chance when gove intervened last time. A mixture of clown and coward.
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TBH I think the problem is with him (and with most Eton types nowadays) is that they are go through the whole Eton process but miss out the bit that once followed after University - ie: going into the Army, or the City, or running the family estate - that used to give them some real-world knowledge and the confidence that came with having discovered reality.

Instead now they go into the bubble and as a result have no real idea how to do anything, except to be given things because of who they are. Johnson probably has no idea how to go the next step so asked someone (who he assumed did know) and has followed his advice that he should make sure he is talked about all the time. That did work for Trump of course, though whether it will work for Johnson (given how everyone is already talking about that Corbyn) is perhaps less certain.
 
There is a massive opportunity at the moment for the left in the UK with the tories in such a mess, but Corbyn is fucking it up. Lightweight moribund ideas, lack of strategy and stuck in the past.
 
gosub said:
The problem with Alexander Boris Johnson's Telegraph column aren't the remark's themselves (every body is entitled to an opinion.) Its more the breach in Ministerial Code, he made in making them. Talked this through with my Mum, who started with "oh but he needs a job", well he's got one - MP for Uxbridge. If he has money difficulties now, what has he been doing with his property while living in a grace and favour home?
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Strengthening the floors
 
toblerone3 said:
There is a massive opportunity at the moment for the left in the UK with the tories in such a mess, but Corbyn is fucking it up. Lightweight moribund ideas, lack of strategy and stuck in the past.
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At this point a past where the gap between rich and poor was far smaller, public services were provided by the public sector, council housing was still getting built and nobody had even heard of an ipad sounds pretty good to me.
 
toblerone3 said:
There is a massive opportunity at the moment for the left in the UK with the tories in such a mess, but Corbyn is fucking it up. Lightweight moribund ideas, lack of strategy and stuck in the past.
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List a few things that labour should be doing and a leader that will do them. Let's just pretend that they're cost free leaders for now.
 
toblerone3 said:
There is a massive opportunity at the moment for the left in the UK with the tories in such a mess, but Corbyn is fucking it up. Lightweight moribund ideas, lack of strategy and stuck in the past.
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it is unsurprising to see lightweight moribund thinking from you, like the utter bankruptcy involved in identifying the left as the labour party.
 
toblerone3 said:
There is a massive opportunity at the moment for the left in the UK with the tories in such a mess, but Corbyn is fucking it up. Lightweight moribund ideas, lack of strategy and stuck in the past.
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butchersapron said:
List a few things that labour should be doing and a leader that will do them. Let's just pretend that they're cost free leaders for now.
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Because without doing so is basically a content free nothing post - similar to saying Leicester should just win the league again by getting more points than all the other teams. So, given that this is so easy for you let's start a countdown - first policy by 12.

So T-2.45
44...
 
can we write Johnson's leadership bid off?

I dunno - he doesn't need to win the mp's ballot - he needs to come second - and then it goes to the membership. although a lot of mps detest him, If rees mogg gets behind him and johnson stands as the "Brexit" candidate then I think he could well end up in the second round. Gruan was talking about him launching a leadership bid in the autumn - presumably under a "save brexit" banner.
 
Kaka Tim said:
can we write Johnson's leadership bid off?

I dunno - he doesn't need to win the mp's ballot - he needs to come second - and then it goes to the membership. although a lot of mps detest him, If rees mogg gets behind him and johnson stands as the "Brexit" candidate then I think he could well end up in the second round. Gruan was talking about him launching a leadership bid in the autumn - presumably under a "save brexit" banner.
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Even with Johnson as leader they've still got no majority and no consensus on brexit. There would have to be another general election, which I really don't think is a wise course of action for the tories at this point and even less so under Johnson.
 
Kaka Tim said:
can we write Johnson's leadership bid off?

I dunno - he doesn't need to win the mp's ballot - he needs to come second - and then it goes to the membership. although a lot of mps detest him, If rees mogg gets behind him and johnson stands as the "Brexit" candidate then I think he could well end up in the second round. Gruan was talking about him launching a leadership bid in the autumn - presumably under a "save brexit" banner.
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He's got some interesting chums these days

Steve Bannon's praise for Boris Johnson fuels speculation he is masterminding bid to oust Theresa May

“I consider Boris Johnson someone who understands the physics in the ebb and flow of events. Those individuals are rare,” said Mr Bannon. “I think he has potential to be a great prime minister, not a good one.”
 
I'm pretty sure the EU will reject whichever watered down version of hard Brexit which TM puts forward as the best and final offer. This will mean she is toast - having pissed off all sides with zero to show for it. Johnson will chuck his hat in the ring for sure. Probably the logic will be that we have arrived at Hard Brexit, so why not have someone who believes in it at the helm.
 
Wolveryeti said:
I'm pretty sure the EU will reject whichever watered down version of hard Brexit which TM puts forward as the best and final offer. This will mean she is toast - having pissed off all sides with zero to show for it. Johnson will chuck his hat in the ring for sure. Probably the logic will be that we have arrived at Hard Brexit, so why not have someone who believes in it at the helm.
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he only believes in what he thinks will gain him an advantage
 
Pickman's model said:
being as there is no bid for leadership i think we can.
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i think johnson still has his eyes on the prize - and the burkha bruha was part of his wooing of the tory party membership bigot wing (or "the tory party membership" as it known). There is def talk of a "save brexit" leadership bid if/when may has to make more concessions to Brussels - and johnson looks to be best placed to lead that crusade. I dont think the best interests of the tory party will trump either johnsons ego or the swivel eyed zeal of the tory headbangers when it comes to the crunch.
 
Kaka Tim said:
i think johnson still has his eyes on the prize - and the burkha bruha was part of his wooing of the tory party membership bigot wing (or "the tory party membership" as it known). There is def talk of a "save brexit" leadership bid if/when may has to make more concessions to Brussels - and johnson looks to be best placed to lead that crusade. I dont think the best interests of the tory party will trump either johnsons ego or the swivel eyed zeal of the tory headbangers when it comes to the crunch.
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despite your prognostications there is no bid for leadership.
 
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