The NCCL, Harriet Harman and government funded childmolester propaganda.

[SpineyNorman]

Give it a rest eh fellas?

 

[Pickman's model]

Oh do fuck off you hypocritical cunt, this isn't a court of law. Casually stupid merrily answers that he doesn't want to ever prioritise gay rights and he refuses to be drawn on whether he supports gay rights generally. You can draw any inference you want, or not, who cares? You're a one trick pony and you're not even very good at that trick. Stick to being a pointless pedant. You're only pisspoor at that.

out of curiosity, on what do you base your charge of hypocrisy?

 

[William of Walworth]

Back to the real points at issue please folks!

 

[William of Walworth]

Including implications, or not, of Patricia Hewitt's statement today?

 

[Corax]

Including implications, or not, of Patricia Hewitt's statement today?

It's being used as a stick to beat HH with on QT atm unsurprisingly.

 

[William of Walworth]

Not surprised by that (I don't watch QT).

But will publicity around what Hewittt said push HH into making any apology or similar herself I wonder?

 

[Wilf]

In practice just as much political calculation will have gone into Hewitt's statement, in terms of when she made it, what was a defensible line. However, she did at least get there in the end.

 

[Corax]

Not surprised by that (I don't watch QT).

But will publicity around what Hewittt said push HH into making any apology or similar herself I wonder?

Me neither usually these days, and this is reminding me why.

Point made well by one of the panellists was that Hewitt & Shami have apologised because they were senior figures, whereas HH was a junior lawyer. Assuming that's true, it still won't make any difference though as the Mail will be able to leverage their apologies anyway. So yeah, I expect it will. At which point we'll get a headline like "TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE" or something.

 

[Casually Red]

So is opposition to paedophilia.

so what ? Nobodys claiming thats a left wing position. Although its clear some libertarians do regard that opposition to child molestation as a right wing attitude.

 

[Casually Red]

any, judging by the way he has refused to answer, again.

refused to answer ??? Im working a 12 hour shift on a factory production line. I dont have a yuppy job like yours were i can faff about on a computer all day you hipster prick

 

[Casually Red]

so i'm not allowed to ask him a question? why do you think he has refused to answer so often? Is it impossible for you to conceive of the possibility that someone might be homophobic? Odd behaviour, but seeing which two idiots its coming from....

because i was at work most of the day you bloody idiot, I only got home about an hour ago. Unlike you im not sitting there with my little hipster glasses on, blowing the froth off my latte tapping away on a keyboard all morning at my Ikea desk or cupcake pop up or whatever . Ive to actually do some work for a living. Manual labour. You should try some, might make a man of you and then you wouldnt be making such stupid statements oblivious as to how the other half have to live.

Like Prince bloody charles or something.

Jesus.

 

[Casually Red]

Oh do fuck off you hypocritical cunt, this isn't a court of law. Casually stupid merrily answers that he doesn't want to ever prioritise gay rights and he refuses to be drawn on whether he supports gay rights generally. You can draw any inference you want, or not, who cares? You're a one trick pony and you're not even very good at that trick. Stick to being a pointless pedant. You're only pisspoor at that.

I dont focus on vegetarianism or animal rights either. Its doesnt mean I go round chucking cats in fucking wheeliebins.

 

[Casually Red]

I remember being very shocked when I first heard about PIE in the early 80's, and more so when one of our lecturers at uni was open about being a paedophile. He had an adult male lover and maintained that he didn't engage in sex with minors, but his sexuality was essentially paedophilic. It was hard to understand why some others in the uni community didn't see this as much of a problem.

its not hard at all, its because they were lefty libertarians and believed a lot of mad dogs shite about kiddy fiddling being an alternative persecuted sexuality is why

 

[belboid]

refused to answer ??? Im working a 12 hour shift on a factory production line. I dont have a yuppy job like yours were i can faff about on a computer all day you hipster prick

Oh look, your still refusing to answer! What a fucking surprise.

 

[belboid]

Give it a rest eh fellas?

Don't worry I've stuck the waste of space on ignore.

 

[belboid]

because i was at work most of the day you bloody idiot, I only got home about an hour ago. Unlike you im not sitting there with my little hipster glasses on, blowing the froth off my latte tapping away on a keyboard all morning at my Ikea desk or cupcake pop up or whatever . Ive to actually do some work for a living. Manual labour. You should try some, might make a man of you and then you wouldnt be making such stupid statements oblivious as to how the other half have to live.

Like Prince bloody charles or something.

Jesus.

You're a homophobic cunt and no mistake

 

[redcogs]

because i was at work most of the day you bloody idiot, I only got home about an hour ago. Unlike you im not sitting there with my little hipster glasses on, blowing the froth off my latte tapping away on a keyboard all morning at my Ikea desk or cupcake pop up or whatever . Ive to actually do some work for a living. Manual labour. You should try some, might make a man of you and then you wouldnt be making such stupid statements oblivious as to how the other half have to live.

Like Prince bloody charles or something.

Jesus.

Obviously i don't know the history behind the spats that kick off here between various contributers, and i wouldn't care to involve myself in any of the personal aspects thereof, but i do have to remark that this is a hilarious post.

 

[Pickman's model]

Don't worry I've stuck the waste of space on ignore.

brave sir robin

 

[redcogs]

Homophobia isn't pleasant, its inhumane and often dangerous. i can't imagine that anyone would want to return to the period when gay people were routinely oppressed by the state, when coppers bullied and beat people for no more than expressing their love?

 

[Pickman's model]

Homophobia isn't pleasant, its inhumane and often dangerous. i can't imagine that anyone would want to return to the period when gay people were routinely oppressed by the state, when coppers bullied and beat people for no more than expressing their love?

get rid of the cops and get rid of the state

 

[redcogs]

i've no problem agreeing with that Pickers. i wonder whether such an ideal state of being would see homophobia withering away.

 

[redsquirrel]

What gay rights do you think CR does not seem keen on?

Well the right of gay people to marry for a start.

 

[existentialist]

The kids who were abused by paedophiles had a pretty good idea.

Actually, I'm not sure that's true.

Most of the public concept of paedophiles was about dirty old men with bags of sweets or puppies, not the reality of people we knew and trusted abusing children. The climate back then was confused, and hidden behind sniggering innuendo which most kids wouldn't have understood anyway.

In some ways it was more out in the open, with the "dirty old man" archetype being a staple of TV comedy, but actual information, apart from vague insinuations about stranger danger and pervy teachers, was pretty thin on the ground.

Harman may well have thought PIE was just a kind of Benny Hill fan club, naive as that would have been.

 

[brogdale]

Actually, I'm not sure that's true.

Most of the public concept of paedophiles was about dirty old men with bags of sweets or puppies, not the reality of people we knew and trusted abusing children. The climate back then was confused, and hidden behind sniggering innuendo which most kids wouldn't have understood anyway.

In some ways it was more out in the open, with the "dirty old man" archetype being a staple of TV comedy, but actual information, apart from vague insinuations about stranger danger and pervy teachers, was pretty thin on the ground.

Harman may well have thought PIE was just a kind of Benny Hill fan club, naive as that would have been.

That overall perception is certainly one that I recollect as a child of the 1960's, but I'm not sure that someone as sharp as Harman would have been quite that naive. I suspect that O'Carroll's comment about not wanting to rock the boat might well have a degree of truth behind it; remember that people like Harman/Hewitt etc. were already at that point busy building their political careers, and probably would not wanted to have caused a stir within NCCL and draw 'negative' attention to themselves. Added to which, with hindsight, there was obviously some very sloppy conflation of 'right-on', rights based notions of freeing the kids (teenagers) to have consensual sex with each other, and the abusive interests of the PIE men.

 

[Pickman's model]

Harman may well have thought PIE was just a kind of Benny Hill fan club, naive as that would have been.

ronald butt, writing in the times 'who really wants a change in the age of consent', 22/1/1976:

Is a wave of anxiety sweeping the public, particularly parents, that the age of consent which protects young girls from exploitation is too high at 16? Is there public indignation at the lack of equal homosexuals because of the "discrepancy" (as one civil servant urbanely put it) between the higher age of consent that relates to them and the legal age for heterosexual relations?
Or has the public seen the light being held up by the lobby of the child-molesters, who are now euphemistically called paedophiles? Is the nation urging the Government to heed the call of the pressure group calling itself the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE), which is campaigning for the removal from the statute book of the "unjust laws" which "define mutual and loving relationships as assaults"?

 

[redcogs]

Mistakes are not uncommon in politics. The important thing for the left surely is to acknowledge them truthfully and hope to learn from the experience. Careerist fuckers whose eye is on the next gold ingot do not (and never have) operate on the basis of this simple enough to understand principle. So if Harman sinks beneath a tide of opprobrium she won't be clutching for a lifebuoy that i've thrown in.

 

[William of Walworth]

Interesting Guardian article about Hewitt (especially) and the NCCL here

This (current) quote from Peter Hain was especially interesting I thought :

Peter Hain clashed with PIE in 1975 when he was honorary vice-president of the Campaign for Homosexual Equality. PIE's founding chairman, Keith Hose, had persuaded the gay rights group not to relegate paedophilia to a minor issue at its conference and it was too much for Hain at the time.
He fired off a letter to CHE : "Some plain speaking is called for: paedophilia is not a condition to be given a nod and a wink as a healthy fringe activity in society – it is a wholly undersireable abnormality requiring sensitive treatment."
Recalling the dispute , Hain said : "There was a kind of loose trendiness around the debate that horrified and appalled me. It was crossing a boundary that should never have been crossed in my view."

So not everybody at the time was guilty of fucked up thinking about them.

 

[Pickman's model]

Mistakes are not uncommon in politics. The important thing for the left surely is to acknowledge them truthfully and hope to learn from the experience. Careerist fuckers whose eye is on the next gold ingot do not (and never have) operate on the basis of this simple enough to understand principle. So if Harman sinks beneath a tide of opprobrium she won't be clutching for a lifebuoy that i've thrown in.

i didn't think dromey, hewitt or harman were on the left.

 

[William of Walworth]

That's right, not sure about Dromey (because I don't know much about his history) but the other two very much went with the prevailing LP tides, eg came over as left in the early eighties, then rowed back as and when convenient. Never genuinely left either of them.

 

[brogdale]

Interesting Guardian article about Hewitt (especially) and the NCCL here

This (current) quote from Peter Hain was especially interesting I thought :



So not everybody at the time was guilty of fucked up thinking about them.

Yeah, objectively Hain was, and is, right....but without knowing quite how the journos got that text and the Hain reflection, it does look a little too much like Hain striving to prove his 'innocence' in the context in which Harman et al are not covered in glory. On reflection...rather more self-interest from Hain than any support for his parliamentary colleagues.