The job hunting support thread

[Puddy_Tat]

I have to write a sort of essay for a job application, on the topic of why I am passionate about improving diversity and inclusion in the sector. Any ideas or suggestions as to whether to include personal things or just work related things, or neither? I'm not an especially "diverse" candidate but I know I can do the job.

hmm. can be a difficult one.

having worked / applied for jobs in local authorities, many include something in the spec about having some sort of commitment to equalities. i remember one interview where i could see the interviewer thinking 'oh shit he means it, we were expecting a few stock platitudes and move on as quick as possible'

is this a key part of the role, or a minor element of a wider role?

i'm not sure i've ever gone for anything where improving diversity has been a part of the job.

with most jobs, and where you're answering a competency type question then yes it can sometimes be relevant to use / include examples from outside paid employment (e.g. voluntary stuff, study, domestic caring responsibilities)

if it's more an "i am a [insert minority / under-represented group] therefore i do diversity" sort of response, that's probably not going to cut a lot of ice. there can of course be roles where it's particularly about working with / outreach to a particular minority, so being a member of that minority can be a genuine occupational requirement under employment law.

does organisation have any stuff about this on their website / annual report or whatever? not that you'd want to copy out their mission statement, but it might give you an idea or two of their thinking, and / or suggest a direction or two to go in.

best of luck

(btw, i'm slightly less pussed off today. yesterday was unusual - happened to see this job about 10.30 pm - similar sort of thing to what i do now, but geographically better long term, and with no closing date on it, wanted to get the application in quick just in case it disappeared today.)

 

[miss direct]

best of luck

(btw, i'm slightly less pussed off today. yesterday was unusual - happened to see this job about 10.30 pm - similar sort of thing to what i do now, but geographically better long term, and with no closing date on it, wanted to get the application in quick just in case it disappeared today.)

Thank you. I've sent it in now. The organisation wants to increase the diversity in the sector so I took that as meaning they want someone they class as "diverse" in the post. I wrote about my experiences and knowledge and didn't mention anything specific about my own background. Not really any of their business if I can do the job. There was another section to the application.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

having got an offer of something that's in milton keynes (meh) so would mean moving, doing something at a tangent to what i do now, and for less money, which seemed like last chance when i applied for it in the summer, there's a few things come up since, doing more or less what i do now.

one's in maidstone which i could cope with, and is straight up the M20 / A20 to mum-tat's place in SE London. the other's in west london, which i could commute to from here, or at some point move to somewhere in south middlesex. snag is i did apply for, and was offered the same thing with them about 2 years ago, but declined politely as i'd just been offered my current job (oops) - both happened to be advertised at the same time. they then got a bit weird and didn't want to take no for an answer, so not sure if an application now would get fed straight to the bin.

haven't heard back from the 'cushy but dull job with decent pension and count down to retirement' thing in croydon yet.

have an application in for something else, but get the impression it won't happen due to the financial situation.

i can't feel enthusiastic about milton keynes, but if anything i'm already a bit late handing notice in if i'm going to take it (although i've got loads of holiday owing)

gut feeling is that if i feel this unenthusiastic about it now, i shouldn't take it. but then i'm worried if i don't take it, then these other things will come to nothing and i'm doomed.

aaaaargh

i wish i felt something other than fear about the whole thing. i'm aware i'm in a better position than many. 'tweety pie' still hasn't got anything after being made redundant a few months ago. he does something fairly specialised in the IT line. suppose he's facing a lot of competition from recently re-trained ballet dancers...

 

[ruffneck23]

There are loads of jobs where I work going , as broadband engineers, money isnt too bad although you do have to be self employed and you have to rent a van off them. Training is pretty good, was away last week for the first bit, im out with an engineer this week and if im honest im really enjoying it. you dont have to be that technical , but not clue less.

PM me and il sort you out a recommendation if you say I referred you.

It's got me out working and out and about during lockdown and I feel so much better for it.

 

[miss direct]

Well, got a bog standard rejection from that diversity related thing. My application was pretty good, but in the rejection came this gem:

When reviewing the applications, we kept the following criteria in mind:
Our goal to identify new writers from groups that are currently under-represented

If they knew who they were looking for already, couldn't they have just shared that and stopped me wasting my time?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Well, got a bog standard rejection from that diversity related thing. My application was pretty good, but in the rejection came this gem:

When reviewing the applications, we kept the following criteria in mind:
Our goal to identify new writers from groups that are currently under-represented

If they knew who they were looking for already, couldn't they have just shared that and stopped me wasting my time?

and

i'm not quite sure what the law is if they have done a 'positive discrimination' thing.

genuine occupational qualification (e.g. women workers in a womens' refuge) is legal

saying 'we welcome applications from under-represented groups' or something like that is one thing, but i'm not sure about making it part of the criteria for recruiting. although i'm vaguely aware some organisations have had training schemes and the like only open to specific minority groups, so presume it's legal (but not sure in what circumstances) - aware that there's occasional gammons making a fuss about that, but i have never quite got as far as research...

 

[miss direct]

I'm not against the idea. But I spent hours on the writing aspect of the application. Sick of this! I've spent hundreds of hours on applications and the hoops they want you to jump through are often an absolute joke.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

latest -

have pulled out of the thing in milton keynes. i can't face moving there in general, trying to move during probable january lockdown, or the huge row with mum-tat it would probably generate

didn't get the dull in croydon thing (got the feeling during the interview they thought i was overqualified) - slightly mixed feelings, it was definitely a 'give up and count down to retirement' option

one interview monday for something in my line of work in London - possibly pushing my luck a bit.

two applications in for similar to what I do now, one in Kent (near enough London - and mum-tat is just off the A20 in SE London) and one in SW London - both have made contact and said they want to interview me but can't quite fix a date yet.

and one other application for something at a slight tangent (also London) that went in last week.

i hope i've made the right decision about the milton keynes thing...

 

[weltweit]

Puddy_Tat encouraging that you have a few positive irons in the fire, shame about the overqualified issue, always irritates me, overqualified surely means you can do that job and could do more if they needed it!

 

[Puddy_Tat]

shame about the overqualified issue, always irritates me, overqualified surely means you can do that job and could do more if they needed it!

dunno really - it can sometimes be unhelpful for both organisation and existing staff.

from the employer's point of view, they generally want someone who will stay in that job as long as the job is there, might possibly move up a level, but that's about it. development is for the graduate fast track types, and they need plebs for them to be fast-tracked past. they don't want people who are only taking it as something to do for a short time until they get something better or who might be a threat to existing managers.

and from past experience, having colleagues who think that the job (and their colleagues) are beneath them, and want to re-organise the entire job based on zero knowledge / experience, can be a bit of a pain in the tail.

that having been said, it's annoying to be on the receiving end of it where you either need a job, or want to move to a particular area, or are looking for something relatively unchallenging so you can give more time / effort to things away from work...

 

[Puddy_Tat]

i think i have a presentation ready to go over 'teams' tomorrow as part of this interview.

blargh.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

i think that went reasonably well (apart from minor technical difficulties with 'teams') - they didn't have any questions after the presentation

 

[Puddy_Tat]

SW London thing - they are very keen for me to go to a real interview next week, not via webcam.

Everything else job hunting I've done since the plague started has been virtual.

Will be about an hour each way on the train then a bus down the road.

News today saying London will probably be in tier 3 by next week.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

well...

didn't get the one in london that involved the presentation. interview seemed to go well, but you never quite know what they want. thought i was slightly pushing my luck nut blargh. no feedback of course.

kent one - did interview via web link last week - again seemed to go reasonably well, but working until 10 pm the night before and wfh-ing until about 5 minutes before the interview isn't the best of preparation.

london one that wanted me to go there before xmas - i went on to self isolation the weekend before the interview (ended up testing negative for teh plague), and they were happy to postpone. re-arranged for last week and they still wanted me to go there in person - has been postponed again after i said i didn't think that was legal at the moment. hmm.

slight tangent thing in london - have now done 2 rounds of online tests, no news yet. they are not known for doing stuff quickly.

meh.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Currently trying to make a complete change of career and move into IT support. Looking at entry level positions. From what I've read it's as much about being good with people/customer service, but my mind is currently melting just trying to do a new CV. I actually enjoy the studying part of it way more and wish that's what I was doing instead this evening.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

well...

kent thing - have got as far as an offer. i told them up front that i'm on 3 months notice, but i would try to negotiate it down if they want. (don't know how current employer would react - there aren't that many people out there who do what i do so they may insist on me working the 3 months, or they may not want me cluttering the place up but obviously i've not asked.)

potential new employer wants me to sign a contract saying i'll start at the beginning of april and are making vague noises about sorting it out after i've resigned from current job and know when i'm actually leaving.

is it me being difficult, or is that a bit weird? I'm reluctant to sign a contract for a date that I don't know if I can do.

west london thing - had (much postponed) interview, online eventually. bit hard to tell how it went - couple of times one of the interview panel let me answer then more or less repeated what i'd just said, but with an implied 'no, this is the right answer'. they weren't a native english speaker, so not sure if they hadn't understood what i'd said / hadn't listened, or if this was their way of agreeing with me. no further news yet but not feeling very inspired.

central london thing - have done two rounds of online tests. have had some inside info that 400+ people applied for what is likely to be 3 posts. latest stage is they are down to about 25 and need to decide whether that's too many to interview or not. i've not been told to bugger off yet, so i may be one of the 25. this one (in terms of location, money, pension scheme) is the most attractive of the three and of course the slowest process.

aaaaaargh

 

[weltweit]

Puddy_Tat very positive news but complicated that you can't yet have both the Kent and Central London things offering at the same time. Wonder if it might be possible to delay the Kent decision and speed up the London one? Do you know what the earliest date the London one might give out first offers?

 

[UnderOpenSky]

That's a mental number of people going for a job Puddy_Tat .

Im finding this real world job hunting thing a bit mental. This LinkedIn and Job Sites and recruiters, it's just not been my world.

I actually applied for a job I saw on LinkedIn which required me to upload my C.V via CV Library. The next day I had a very keen sounding recruiter calling me up about my current skill set. Today I had an email from Mencap saying I hadn't been successful. I definitely didn't apply for a role. They must have been scratching their head opening a personal statement telling them why I wanted a role in IT, but I gave them a call and worked out where they had got it from.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

@Puddy_Tat very positive news but complicated that you can't yet have both the Kent and Central London things offering at the same time. Wonder if it might be possible to delay the Kent decision and speed up the London one? Do you know what the earliest date the London one might give out first offers?

there's no point in trying to rush a large organisation...

ultimately i could (if i get one of the other offers) quit before starting although don't really want to do that if i can help it

main concern is the idea of signing a contract to say i'll start on x date and risk not being able to.

it probably wouldn't come to that, but i don't want to resign, not get released early from current job, and not get new one.

That's a mental number of people going for a job @Puddy_Tat .

dunno really - have seen press reports about places getting a thousand applications for retail jobs and that sort of thing.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

latest - sounds like there was some cock up between hiring manager and regional HR who should apparently have sent stuff to me weeks ago hence the april start date. they are happy to go with 3 months notice but if I can escape sooner happy for me to start sooner.

all subject to references etc so will have to talk to current employer in the next few days - have a feeling this will not go well.

and have a bad feeling about moving house - it's not commutable from here, so will have to do something temporary to start with (not going to try and do sell / buy chain this fast) and the more i think about that the less enthusiastic i am.

haven't even mentioned it to mum-tat yet. just about every time i talk about making any changes in my life her reaction seems to be to go through the roof first, and think about it after, and i just can't face that at the moment.

i feel almost frozen with fear about the whole thing.

i'll have to do something tomorrow or tuesday, but gut feeling is i'm going to have to decline and hope one of the other ones happens. if it doesn't i think i'm doomed. there aren't going to be many more chances - i'm over 50 now...

bugger.

 

[miss direct]

Don't mention anything to your Mum until it's more certain.

I've got an interview on Friday. Have an annoying task to do as part of the interview

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

That's a mental number of people going for a job Puddy_Tat .

Im finding this real world job hunting thing a bit mental. This LinkedIn and Job Sites and recruiters, it's just not been my world.

I actually applied for a job I saw on LinkedIn which required me to upload my C.V via CV Library. The next day I had a very keen sounding recruiter calling me up about my current skill set. Today I had an email from Mencap saying I hadn't been successful. I definitely didn't apply for a role. They must have been scratching their head opening a personal statement telling them why I wanted a role in IT, but I gave them a call and worked out where they had got it from.

That's really bad.

Be warned: many organisations only work with select recruitment agencies, but you also get other agencies who are being chancers who will scour their books, find people suitable, then submit applications/put people forward.

One problem with this is that some recruitment agencies talk to candidates and make it sound like they have jobs on their books that they are authorised to recruit for, for a client, but it turns out they are just putting forward speculative applications for candidates. Sometimes, candidates might think their application via a recruiter will be actively considered, but in reality it goes straight in the bin, because it's from a random recruiter.

This is why I always try to apply directly to the company rather than through agencies.

 

[han]

Currently trying to make a complete change of career and move into IT support. Looking at entry level positions. From what I've read it's as much about being good with people/customer service, but my mind is currently melting just trying to do a new CV. I actually enjoy the studying part of it way more and wish that's what I was doing instead this evening.

As someone who moved out of that field a couple of years ago, I'd agree with you it's about people skills very largely. But equally as important I'd say is the ability to remain calm under pressure, and to methodically troubleshoot and use a process of elimination to problem solve. If you can do all those things and you're technically minded, you'll be perfect for that field.

 

[han]

Also, I think being passionate about keeping up with the latest technology is pretty important, as software and hardware are constantly evolving.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Thanks han. I've been an outdoor ed instructor for much of my life with a fair bit of support work dealing with some pretty challenging kids. I've ended up working in a residential home with young people because the pandemic has killed the outdoor industry. I'm going to try blag that as a certain amount of working under pressure. I'm not sure how technical I am yet. I've been enjoying studying for A+, which I know is super basic, but passed the first module with a decent score last week and am looking forward to doing a cert more around networking next. If nothing else it's a way to feel I'm doing something productive during lockdown.

What seems to be hard is getting the first job. Same with anything of course. I'm not totally closed to going down the apprenticeship route, but if I can avoid it I'd liked to, just because of the money (or lack off) would mean I'd probably have to spend some weekends working elsewhere and I'd like to use that time for further study/time with my partner.

It appears I've found an agency gig though. I saw the job ad, took some online tests they sent me which they seemed happy with. There's a week training and they start sending you out for basic works. It seems almost to easy. I've definitely got my eyes wide open on this one, maybe it has potential to gain some experience and build the CV. They admitted there isn't loads of work at the moment, due to lockdown, so I could at least get a feel for it without giving up my current job. We shall see.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

That's really bad.

Be warned: many organisations only work with select recruitment agencies, but you also get other agencies who are being chancers who will scour their books, find people suitable, then submit applications/put people forward.

One problem with this is that some recruitment agencies talk to candidates and make it sound like they have jobs on their books that they are authorised to recruit for, for a client, but it turns out they are just putting forward speculative applications for candidates. Sometimes, candidates might think their application via a recruiter will be actively considered, but in reality it goes straight in the bin, because it's from a random recruiter.

This is why I always try to apply directly to the company rather than through agencies.

Bonkers. A whole new world for me. I had another email from an agency today with a very good salary for the work I'm doing. Just not the work I'm trying to get into.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I've declined the Kent thing.

I can't face trying to move house (and risking having trouble renting, as apparently letting agents now don't like people who are still in the probationary period of a new job) to somewhere I don't really know (in normal circumstances I'd have been able to spend a day or two there before committing) and I can't face all the other shit it will generate.

I'm probably not in the right frame of mind for job hunting. I really want out of the job that I've been stuck in for two years (I knew after a couple of weeks it had been a mistake) and I know there aren't going to be that many more chances. On the one hand this means I'm probably applying for things I shouldn't (although there's not much out there) and on the other hand I'm more reluctant to risk making another mistake as there's going to be even less chance of getting anything else in a year or two.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Kent people do not want to take 'no thanks' for an answer.

not sure if this reflects on their opinion of me, or whether they are desperate (and if so why?)

Don't mention anything to your Mum until it's more certain.

not really an option - don't want to burn bridges with current employer and then have to pull out of new job.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

hmm

over 6 weeks since the west london interview, and not heard anything at all from them. i assume this means 'no', and there are signs that organisation in question is in difficulties anyway.

central london interview was a disaster. got some advice from friend of a friend who's in that organisation now (that's how i know they started off with 400+ people applying) but it wasn't really helpful - was a competency based thing, but not really the way he'd suggested to prepare for it. probably the least worst answer i gave was where i ditched the thing i had prepared to talk about and answered more off the cuff. was tempted to ask if i could just withdraw after first part of the interview rather than waste any more of each others' time, but that's not really the done thing. haven't had the 'no' yet.

got a couple more 'give up and look forward to retirement' type jobs in london-ish that i'm contemplating applying for, although i may be seen as overqualified / over-specialised, or not having enough recent general type experience.

seen something that's pretty much what i used to do / got made redundant from after the 2008 crash, but i may have been away from that sort of role for too long, and it's too far away to be worth thinking about, and i wish i'd not seen the advert.

anyone got any experience with getting / doing temporary admin type work in london? there's no point in going after short term stuff now, as i'm trapped on 3 months' notice, and i'm not sure it's sensible to quit, move and then look for work. last time i tried for this sort of thing i tended not to hear back, and since then i've got a few years older and there's the pandemic. aware that some employers don't see a middle aged bloke as being the right 'fit' for temporary admin type work.

blargh.

 

[Looby]

Can I ask for advice/opinions please?

I’ve been in my job since August 2019 (newly qualified in professional, stat regulated role). It’s been really shit mostly and I’ve been very unhappy and already been off with stress last year.
I moved to a new team a month ago and it’s much better. Less stressful role, more supportive, better supervision and team work but it’s the same organisation and the issues are still there. I feel really unhappy even though I like the job. I don’t want to grow to despise the role completely after waiting 20 years and spending 60k to qualify.

My friend does the same role I’ve just moved to for a charity and has been trying to get me to apply for ages. She’s messaged again today and there’s a job closing tomorrow. Slightly better money, OOH pay and home working allowance. Good wellbeing support and she’s really really happy there.
I’m really tempted to apply but it’s a 6 month fixed term contract. Friend said all the jobs are initially but she’d bet her job on it being made permanent and hers was after 3 months.
I really want to go for it but I’m scared.
We don’t have savings or any buffer, I could afford to be out of work for 2 months max if we lived off my credit cards so it feels like a huge risk. Recruitment for these jobs generally take 2-3 months. I’m not good with financial risk, it makes me anxious.

Someone tell me what to do.