The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[NoXion]

Once you are at university, class differences are no longer a good indicator of success. In fact rather the reverse - on average, students from state schools outperform those from private schools on the same courses.

The old boys' network still nets the toffs all the cushy jobs, regardless of scholastic success. What do working class students get? A mountain of debt chained to their leg and then being told by employers that they are "overqualified".

 

[editor]

Why don't you read it? Always good to try to make sense of both sides of an argument, no?

Read what? I've asked someone who is a fan of Brexit to explain the benefits they personally think it will be bring to everyone. It's a reasonable question and one that really doesn't need you or anyone else shoving their oar in, thanks.

 

[philosophical]

Another benefit of brexit is that there may now be an opportunity for the EU to drop English as one of their 'official' languages.
Less real or virtual paper and ink to consume, thereby helping to reduce global warming.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Read what? I've asked someone who is a fan of Brexit to explain the benefits they personally think it will be bring to everyone. It's a reasonable question and one that really doesn't need you or anyone else shoving their oar in, thanks.

This is a public forum innit. Feel like I'm entitled to ask who I want what I want, as long as I'm not breaking the terms and conditions.

 

[ska invita]

[bold added]

I don't think anyone here is saying that.

I recall quiting music and playing three local pubs being suggested

I'm not going back to check

 

[grit]

I think a lot of the fall out will be surrounding disinvestment. Banks heading elsewhere. The UK being seen as a more risky place for capital.

Yes, there are already indications that this is a likely outcome

 

[NoXion]

Nobody can play in pubs anyway, they're all shut!

 

[Artaxerxes]

Great to hear the ET fees got dropped. Go on, tell me it was the EU that got it done.

It was UNISON but good news!

What impact would the return of tribunal fees have?

There have been whispers about a potential return of employment tribunal fees as the courts wade through a backlog of cases. Louise Keenan looks at what

www.personneltoday.com

The Times recently published an article suggesting that it had seen private correspondence between Whitehall officials and the Law Commission, in which the government was seeking recommendations for the reintroduction of employment tribunal fees. This has, unsurprisingly, sparked discussion about what may be on the horizon.

It never got to the EU court but if it had then the EU may have blocked them.

While it was our Supreme Court that ultimately ruled them unlawful I've seen several articles point out EU law was a contributing factor to the supreme court decision.

Access to Justice and the removal of Employment Tribunal fees | Ince

R (on the application of UNISON) v Lord Chancellor Almost four years to the day since the introduction of the payment of employment tribunal fees required by the Employment Tribunals and the Employment Appeal Tribunal Fees Order 2013 SI 2013/1893 (‘the Fees Order’), the Supreme Court has handed...

www.incegd.com

The impact of fees on employment claims derived from EU law was also considered. EU principles of effectiveness and effective judicial protection and the right to a fair hearing under Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights were impacted by the imposition of unaffordable tribunal fees and were therefore disproportionate restrictions on the exercise of EU derived rights and contrary to EU law.

The other good news is that the UK government has indicated it's going to take a firmer role in the courts decisions.

 

[editor]

This is a public forum innit. Feel like I'm entitled to ask who I want what I want, as long as I'm not breaking the terms and conditions.

Which was exactly my point, FFS. I'm asking TopCat for his personal opinion so fuck knows why you and others keep sticking your oars in, or why it's been suggested I should conduct that discussion via PM.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Which was exactly my point, FFS. I'm asking TopCat for his personal opinion so fuck knows why you and others keep sticking your oars in, or why it's been suggested I should conduct that discussion via PM.

Cos it's you trying to win some weird battle as per usual cos you take everything so personally. And it's stinking up the thread. But hey, you've decided you're right and don't want to even begin to explore why anyone might have a different opinion on Brexit, so do as you please, I guess

 

[TopCat]

It was UNISON but good news!

What impact would the return of tribunal fees have?

There have been whispers about a potential return of employment tribunal fees as the courts wade through a backlog of cases. Louise Keenan looks at what

www.personneltoday.com

It never got to the EU court but if it had then the EU may have blocked them.

While it was our Supreme Court that ultimately ruled them unlawful I've seen several articles point out EU law was a contributing factor to the supreme court decision.

Access to Justice and the removal of Employment Tribunal fees | Ince

R (on the application of UNISON) v Lord Chancellor Almost four years to the day since the introduction of the payment of employment tribunal fees required by the Employment Tribunals and the Employment Appeal Tribunal Fees Order 2013 SI 2013/1893 (‘the Fees Order’), the Supreme Court has handed...

www.incegd.com

The other good news is that the UK government has indicated it's going to take a firmer role in the courts decisions.

Well done to Unison.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well done to Unison.

A rarely seen sentence

 

[editor]

Cos it's you trying to win some weird battle as per usual cos you take everything so personally. And it's stinking up the thread. But hey, you've decided you're right and don't want to even begin to explore why anyone might have a different opinion on Brexit, so do as you please, I guess

I'm just asking him a simple straightforward question. I've no idea why you're getting all worked up about it. It's got fuck all to do with you. And the 'stinking up of the thread has been mainly caused by you and others constantly shoving in their oars.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Well done to Unison.

I like to think I'm making more inroads than talking about broken zips as to why brexit is daft so I appreciate your likes.

 

[NoXion]

I know the other thread is dealing with the weightier matters but ...

Workers’ rights and environmental protections ‘easily eroded’ by Brexit trade deal, think tank warns

So-called ‘level playing field’ safeguards ‘considerably weaker than expected’ and ‘difficult to enforce’, says IPPR

www.independent.co.uk

Oh look, a self-styled "progressive" think tank. Apparently they are a registered charity, although they also get money from the likes of Google, the City of London Corporation, and JP Morgan. Oh, and the government. Real champions of the working class right there.

while i'd agree that is the case in specific workplaces / industries, i don't recall a lot of collective action across multiple industries / employers to get the EU working time directive (of which paid holiday entitlement is part) implemented.

You mean the working time directive that many employers frequently encourage their employees to sign away? It's functionally toothless. Especially if people feel that they need the extra hours.

 

[TopCat]

You've really painted yourself into a corner here. Forums are all about people expressing and exchanging personal opinions, but to follow your daft line of argument, why didn't you send me a PM when you wanted my personal opinion?

Stop being a bully. Go for a walk or something.

 

[editor]

Stop being a bully. Go for a walk or something.

A 'bully'? Now that is fucking priceless.

 

[editor]

Oh look, a self-styled "progressive" think tank. Apparently they are a registered charity, although they also get money from the likes of Google, the City of London Corporation, and JP Morgan. Oh, and the government. Real champions of the working class right there.



You mean the working time directive that many employers frequently encourage their employees to sign away? It's functionally toothless. Especially if people feel that they need the extra hours.

So will it all get better for the workers now that Brexit is here?

 

[NoXion]

So will it all get better for the workers now that Brexit is here?

Dunno, ask me later when my crystal ball gets back from the repair shop.

 

[ska invita]

its not a big ask tbh

 

[Pickman's model]

its not a big ask tbh

Yeh and it's important to get a spot of exercise esp at this time of year

 

[ska invita]

Heres the kind of thing ed is asking for, I posted this earlier,now ammended, incomplete list:

full access to the common market + zero tariffs but with new bureaucratic costs + a degree of limited reclaimed sovereignty (no ecj for example but still tied for now to the level playing field) Tariff disputes will be sure to come up as "standards deviate",

+ points based migration + a few more fish

a step closer to breaking up of the union + end of freedom of movement in both directions + additional intercontinental bureaucracy/costs + some people living in Europe might find themselves made illegal + energising a new wave of Nationalist forces in the UK + Brexit sunk Corbyn + other financial impacts on particular sectors.


....
Only thing that has potential to count as a positive IMO is the sliver of reclaimed sovereignty, but it would be a stretch to overstate it at this point. Much depends on how things play out in terms of future trade wars. I don't know enough about the ECJ as to whether being out of its jurisdiction is a good thing or not. The principle of closer, more direct democracy is sound though


Break up of the Union could be great, but not without risk or cost

 

[kabbes]

You've really painted yourself into a corner here. Forums are all about people expressing and exchanging personal opinions, but to follow your daft line of argument, why didn't you send me a PM when you wanted my personal opinion?

I said other things in that post you know, then the throwaway comment you decided to quote. But oh well. If you’re not interested, you’re not interested.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm just asking him a simple straightforward question. I've no idea why you're getting all worked up about it. It's got fuck all to do with you. And the 'stinking up of the thread has been mainly caused by you and others constantly shoving in their oars.

By constantly shoving in their oars I take it you mean offering their opinions

 

[Puddy_Tat]

You mean the working time directive that many employers frequently encourage their employees to sign away? It's functionally toothless. Especially if people feel that they need the extra hours.

the working time bit, yes. the paid holiday bit (and some others) doesn't have an opt out.

sorry, but i still can't see what workers in the UK have to gain from brexit as it stands...

 

[Flavour]

sorry, but i still can't see what workers in the UK have to gain from brexit as it stands...

Next to nothing under a tory government, as it ever was. The hope for some is that potential future radical left wing government would not be constrained by neolib eu.

 

[ska invita]

You mean the working time directive that many employers frequeIt's functionally toothless.

Iirc it toothless because the Tories fought hard to make it so. Not as toothless in France (iirc?)

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

If you don't wants oars shoved in you should conduct your business via PMs.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

its not a big ask tbh

It's not a big ask at all of someone who is constantly banging on about remoaners.

 

[ska invita]

Only just seen this thread so posting this here

Heres the kind of thing ed is asking for, I posted this earlier,now ammended, incomplete lis



full access to the common market + zero tariffs but with new bureaucratic costs + a degree of limited reclaimed sovereignty (no ecj for example but still tied for now to the level playing field) Tariff disputes will be sure to come up as "standards devia



+ points based migration + a few more



a step closer to breaking up of the union + end of freedom of movement in both directions + additional intercontinental bureaucracy/costs + some people living in Europe might find themselves made illegal + energising a new wave of Nationalist forces in the UK + Brexit sunk Corbyn + other financial impacts on particular sect






Only thing that has potential to count as a positive IMO is the sliver of reclaimed sovereignty, but it would be a stretch to overstate it at this point. Much depends on how things play out in terms of future trade wars. I don't know enough about the ECJ as to whether being out of its jurisdiction is a good thing or not. The principle of closer, more direct democracy is sound thou





Break up of the Union could be great, but not without risk or costs

Anyone have an opinion on being out of the European court system? Practical good or bad thing?