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The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

You will keep asking with your fingers in your ears until no one is in the room but you.
You've spent long enough dismissing the plight of musicians, so I thought the least you could do would be to explain the clear cut benefits that Brexit will bring to us all. If you're unable to answer such a straightforward question, just say so.
 
Another list we could make: posters coming out with identical arguments to those of Tory ministers.

When challenged over visas for scientists in the UK a while ago, a minister came out with more or less this argument - why should EU scientists be allowed to queue-jump? To which the angry response from those representing scientists was that 'you're the reason there is any fucking queue at all in the first place'.

You don't actually believe this crap you're coming out with do you?

How is it crap? If you want to work in many foreign countries, then you'll need a visa. That's the norm.
 
So the Brucie bonus benefit is identity? Great. Tell me more.
What more do you need to know? I’ve posted a paper twice now that is one of many attempts to grapple with this. Gramsci provided a decent summary of it. If you’re really interested in the answer to the question rather than just employing a bad faith rhetorical device, why don’t you have a read of it and then see what you think?
 
The logic of the argument is crap. These restrictions exist therefore the imposition of similar restrictions on others isn't a bad thing.

It's not an unmitigated disaster either. Scientists in other countries, especially those outside of massive neoliberal trading blocs like the EU, have to work their way around such things. I get that international scientific cooperation is important, but such things shouldn't be reliant on the EU's largesse.
 
I had a problem with a jacket I bought a fortnight ago, and the European manufacturer told me they could only sent a replacement zip until until the 31st Dec because of something to do with Brexit. So there you are, Brexit = bad for jackets on the blink. I fixed it myself anyway, so no problem.
 
What more do you need to know? I’ve posted a paper twice now that is one of many attempts to grapple with this. Gramsci provided a decent summary of it. If you’re really interested in the answer to the question rather than just employing a bad faith rhetorical device, why don’t you have a read of it and then see what you think?
I'm asking for his opinion, not yours.
 
Maybe not an elite concern, but like most areas of education they are an arena where existing inequalities play out. Possibly even amplify them.
You don't solve that problem by restricting access even more. The main problems in specifically UK education start earlier. They start in the school system.
 
I think a lot of the fall out will be surrounding disinvestment. Banks heading elsewhere. The UK being seen as a more risky place for capital.
 
Are you going to ask every Brexit voter individually then? Or are you only interested in what TopCat personally believes he is getting from it?
In this particular case, I am interested in his opinion, yes. That's often how bulletin boards work, with people exchanging their personal opinions on a given topic, just like you're now asking me my personal opinion.

:facepalm:
 
In this particular case, I am interested in his opinion, yes. That's often how bulletin boards work, with people exchanging their personal opinions on a given topic, just like you're now asking me my personal opinion.

:facepalm:
Sounds like a job for a PM to me. But anyway. If all you’re interested in is one very specific person’s opinion then actually you’ve already got it. He’s already told you what he personally has got out of it. If that’s not good enough for you, that’s not his problem.
 
What do people realistically think they will drop? It costs £900 minimum to go to an ET now. The EU didnt save us the Tory move that got us to that point.

if you're talking employment tribunals, that got stopped a few years back. more here.

i'm not convinced there will be an immediate 'bonfire of red tape' but can see a lot being ditched or cut back over time - health and safety standards, right to paid holiday, parental leave and so on - will all be dressed up with a lot of union jack waving and bollocks about being 'competitive' and how those poor hard done by bosses "can't afford" to offer "generous" terms and conditions (and they and their friends in the millionaire owned media will still probably blame foreigners / immigrants / trade unions for it)

ultimately, while i've no particular enthusiasm for the EU, i can't see the current shower of twunts doing anything that will benefit working people, and can see them doing a lot in the interests of their hedge fund chums...
 
You don't solve that problem by restricting access even more. The main problems in specifically UK education start earlier. They start in the school system.
Outside the school system I'd say. IN the context of our society as it is, I don't see that schemes like Erasumus challenge those inequalities.
 
if you're talking employment tribunals, that got stopped a few years back. more here.

i'm not convinced there will be an immediate 'bonfire of red tape' but can see a lot being ditched or cut back over time - health and safety standards, right to paid holiday, parental leave and so on - will all be dressed up with a lot of union jack waving and bollocks about being 'competitive' and how those poor hard done by bosses "can't afford" to offer "generous" terms and conditions (and they and their friends in the millionaire owned media will still probably blame foreigners / immigrants / trade unions for it)

ultimately, while i've no particular enthusiasm for the EU, i can't see the current shower of twunts doing anything that will benefit working people, and can see them doing a lot in the interests of their hedge fund chums...
What we have in terms of rights and protections have been hard won, largely here in the UK by collective action.
 
I had a problem with a jacket I bought a fortnight ago, and the European manufacturer told me they could only sent a replacement zip until until the 31st Dec because of something to do with Brexit. So there you are, Brexit = bad for jackets on the blink. I fixed it myself anyway, so no problem.


I guess the moral of the story there is "Buy British" so, that's me sorted for Stilton, Aston Martins and Barbour jackets then.... 🤔
 
I've never heard of people calling the French dirty tbh .
I have, many a time. Don't wash, and smell of having had sex too. No sex for us please, we're British.
Build up a following, make contacts, sell records, sell merchandise, maybe get on some local TV/radio stations and maybe get to meet local promoters or festival organisers. Even before the various flavours of lockdown, there was a rapidly decreasing pool of live venues available, so Europe provided more opportunities for gigs - in fact, pre-Brexit, it could be just as easy for a London band to play France that somewhere up North.
Absolutely, tours for a majority of acts are a promotional exercise and expense.
Live gigs I go to in the UK are rarely of a UK act... The idea that musicians shouldn't travel is the most bizarre little Britain thing I've ever read on urban.
 
What we have in terms of rights and protections have been hard won, largely here in the UK by collective action.

:hmm:

while i'd agree that is the case in specific workplaces / industries, i don't recall a lot of collective action across multiple industries / employers to get the EU working time directive (of which paid holiday entitlement is part) implemented.

Great to hear the ET fees got dropped. Go on, tell me it was the EU that got it done.

and :hmm: again

as i have said before, i'm not a great enthusiast for the EU, but you're coming across more as defending an article of faith at all costs here.

I've still to see anything that suggests anything will improve for workers as a result of the brexit we're getting...
 
Outside the school system I'd say. IN the context of our society as it is, I don't see that schemes like Erasumus challenge those inequalities.
Once you are at university, class differences are no longer a good indicator of success. In fact rather the reverse - on average, students from state schools outperform those from private schools on the same courses. The biggest entrenchment of privilege in education happens before university.
 
Sounds like a job for a PM to me.
You've really painted yourself into a corner here. Forums are all about people expressing and exchanging personal opinions, but to follow your daft line of argument, why didn't you send me a PM when you wanted my personal opinion?

😂
 
Absolutely, tours for a majority of acts are a promotional exercise and expense.
Live gigs I go to in the UK are rarely of a UK act... The idea that musicians shouldn't travel is the most bizarre little Britain thing I've ever read on urban.
Indeed. I used to regularly book UK acts who played around Europe for my club nights - and also book EU acts to play in Brixton - and the notion that they're all middle class hobbyists enjoying the 'luxury' of getting to play low-paid shows is laughable and insulting.
 
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