The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion
- Thread starter brogdale
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Voley
🐀
Do you think we will be better off eventually? In 5/10 years time or whatever?
Genuine question btw, I really don't want a pro/anti Brexit argument on Xmas day. There's probably enough of them happening over Christmas dinners as we speak. I just know that you follow the markets/have a much better grip on finance than I ever will so I'd like to hear your take on it.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Not with the shower of politicians we have, a more incompetent crop of cunts can barely be imagined
I honestly don’t know. I genuinely think that our legal status with respect to the EU superstate is massively less important than the political will within our own country. There is little that can be achieved that couldn’t be equally achieved in the inverse state wrt the EU if the right political will were in place. So I think leave/remain is arguing about how the deckchairs should be arranged rather than deciding which way the ship should be steered.
In terms of realpolitik, I would suggest that it is better to focus on what we want the actual destination to be than whether the deckchairs are well arranged for the current journey. To that end, I prefer to accept that the prevailing atmosphere in this country is anti-EU, to not make that the hill I am prepared to die on (to use the popular phrase of the moment) and choose a different hill.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
It depends on how you measure better off.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Absolutely .
Right, which is why I’m a bit despondent that we’ve been bounced into focusing all our attention on this rather than the more fundamental questions about who decided these are the two choices in the first place?
gosub
~#
HMG,Parliament,TINA.
But yep really hasn't been handled that well at all. though apparently the alternative was weak and wobbly chaos, and confusion.
ska invita
back on the other side
I like where this thread has got to today.
Anyone fancy a kick about?
Anyone fancy a kick about?
Voley
🐀
Only if we don't end up in a Paul McCartney video.
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
mauvais
on reddit or something
Is that the artwork for John Lennon's Christmas hit, "Now I've Got A Machine Gun (Ho Ho Ho)"?
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
I’m hoping that the absolute dominance of political debate by Brexit is ended by reaching this stage, and finally other issues can be raised and discussed. It’s like no ground could be made on anything else, and too much ‘you’re not on my side’. Yet sadly I suspect the right will continue to play the culture war game because it benefits them, and we never really move on from this dogshit.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
No chance. It's just going to move on to claim and counterclaim about everything being shit now/everything will be brilliant tomorrow. Plus, the agreement seems to have a review built in at four years. Meaning, in terms of Westminster politics, we are now gearing up for a 2024 general election that will be dominated by Brexit again.
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gosub
~#
at
I hope not, there's bound to be some push for buyers' remorse, and there's bound to have some funding behind it and be quite slick but that's 4years away there's a fuck ton of other stuff that will need addressing...Covid should be at the end of a public enquiry by that stage (touch wood) and thats got serious ramifications in several directions AND there HAS to be some sort of new Constutional settlement if the UK is to survive I think it needs a some sort of regionalizing democratic input into the make up of the House of Lords. So many other things.
Brexit is in the mix for sure, but we are where are.
ska invita
back on the other side
The is good
Key bit being
.... perhaps the biggest danger for Britain is that it is now stranded awkwardly, half-in, half-out of the European economic system, leaving its relationship with the bloc as fraught and politically combustible as ever
....
Pro-Brexit lawmakers will be likely to press the British government to break away from Europe’s standards and laws and to test the limits of regained national sovereignty.
That is possible under the agreement, but if the European Union believed any such measures were designed to undercut it, the issue could go to independent arbitration and tariffs could be imposed as a penalty.
Mr. Johnson might judge it in his interests to press ahead with contentious rules, either to promote his industrial strategy or to reignite the politically divisive debate over Europe that brought him to power.
Either way, the mechanism established by his deal for resolving trade disputes over diverging economic rules is likely to provide a future flash point. These or other cross-Channel conflicts are certain to be inflamed by the more jingoistic parts of the British tabloid media.
“It means a process of almost permanent negotiation between Britain and the E.U.,” Mr. Grant said, “and every time that happens, it will pump up the emotion and the rhetoric.”
........
In short Brexit is far from done, it's only just begun
Key bit being
.... perhaps the biggest danger for Britain is that it is now stranded awkwardly, half-in, half-out of the European economic system, leaving its relationship with the bloc as fraught and politically combustible as ever
....
Pro-Brexit lawmakers will be likely to press the British government to break away from Europe’s standards and laws and to test the limits of regained national sovereignty.
That is possible under the agreement, but if the European Union believed any such measures were designed to undercut it, the issue could go to independent arbitration and tariffs could be imposed as a penalty.
Mr. Johnson might judge it in his interests to press ahead with contentious rules, either to promote his industrial strategy or to reignite the politically divisive debate over Europe that brought him to power.
Either way, the mechanism established by his deal for resolving trade disputes over diverging economic rules is likely to provide a future flash point. These or other cross-Channel conflicts are certain to be inflamed by the more jingoistic parts of the British tabloid media.
“It means a process of almost permanent negotiation between Britain and the E.U.,” Mr. Grant said, “and every time that happens, it will pump up the emotion and the rhetoric.”
........
In short Brexit is far from done, it's only just begun
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
so a convenient argument and a lot of union jack waving about the british sausage (or similar) just before each election / bit of bad news they want to bury, then?
weltweit
Well-Known Member
If businesses want to supply into the EU, they will have to abide by EU standards. By that I mean product standards for quality and suitability, CE marking and the like. At the moment we are well placed to do that because at the moment every UK business that supplies into the EU already is supplying compliant product.
It is this government's proposal to establish a UKCA mark which could signal a first divergence between UK and EU standards. Something I think would be undesirable.
It is this government's proposal to establish a UKCA mark which could signal a first divergence between UK and EU standards. Something I think would be undesirable.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
But will they require global suppliers to meet a separate UKCA standard for their products to be legally sold here? That‘ll take years to sort out, retool etc. One of those ‘what’s the fucking point’ things where it just seems like we’re spiting ourselves.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I don't know, that could be their thinking. It produces yet another level of complexity and cost for manufacturers.
Yes, I need to understand more what the aims of the UKCA are, don't know much about it at the moment. Will speak to a friend tomorrow who is a standards expert, perhaps will know more then.
Voley
🐀
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
The crux of the matter:
The Brexit achieved by Johnson amounts to the chance for globalised capital to undertake a cost-benefit analysis on lobbying the `uk state for lower regulatory standards with consequential higher tariffs into the largest, nearest market.
Control.
The Brexit achieved by Johnson amounts to the chance for globalised capital to undertake a cost-benefit analysis on lobbying the `uk state for lower regulatory standards with consequential higher tariffs into the largest, nearest market.
Control.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Thank you for confirming what I've been saying
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Giving R the I told you so ammunition and L the blame the foreigner artillery.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
A plague on both their houses tbh
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
No we'll be eating any old shit before the year is out.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
At last a party that many on here will have been waiting for that tackles their key concerns Volt stands for Rejoin. A fig leaf Brexit deal misses what we love about Europe
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