Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Still no love for Jonathan Trott?
The Ashes 2021/22
- Thread starter RileyOBlimey
- Start date
Still no love for Jonathan Trott?
Ahead of Strauss or Cook? No. Ahead of Pietersen, I can see the argument for.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Yeah he'd be three to score a boring hundred. Pietersen can come in at six to rub it in.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Maybe what we're saying is that we don't have enough South Africans in the team at the moment...
Bring in Robin Smith and Matt Prior.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
I don't think Root is a great captain and I wouldn't mind seeing him stepping down so that he can just concentrate on his own game but who is going to replace him? Between performance injury he's probably the only member of the team that you can consider a sure pick at the moment.
And the idea that he, or even Silverwood, are responsible for this mess and somehow replacing them is going to fix things is delusional crap.
This is result of running down first class cricket consistently for a decade (or more).
And the idea that he, or even Silverwood, are responsible for this mess and somehow replacing them is going to fix things is delusional crap.
This is result of running down first class cricket consistently for a decade (or more).
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
I'm glad Lawrence has been spared this humiliation up to now. Wouldn't be surprised to see him picked for one or both of the last two Tests and score some runs.
But to do that without proper match practice is no easy feat. Even if the likes of India and Aus don't need practice, we do. We can't just rock up in any country and score. As has been shown. What little talent we have needs working on, not arriving and being chucked into a 'Test'. Did anyone really expect Crawley to succeed? The man hasn't played a game since September.
Aus are miles better than us, contrary to what Root might think or say. But they've been playing Sheffield Shield too. We need more first-class structure, not pointless biff/bash/bosh games. But I'm not holding my breath. Because it's all about the money, not the class.
Bad days. Really bad days. This could take years to fix even with the will. And I'm not sure the ECB has the will.
But to do that without proper match practice is no easy feat. Even if the likes of India and Aus don't need practice, we do. We can't just rock up in any country and score. As has been shown. What little talent we have needs working on, not arriving and being chucked into a 'Test'. Did anyone really expect Crawley to succeed? The man hasn't played a game since September.
Aus are miles better than us, contrary to what Root might think or say. But they've been playing Sheffield Shield too. We need more first-class structure, not pointless biff/bash/bosh games. But I'm not holding my breath. Because it's all about the money, not the class.
Bad days. Really bad days. This could take years to fix even with the will. And I'm not sure the ECB has the will.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I quite like the leftfield idea of Moeen Ali as captain. But that would only be a short-term fix. And I would suggest it would be from the start of next season onwards, not from now. And tbh there are only leftfield suggestions, aren't there? Stokes is a bad idea. Broad is a bad idea. Buttler is a bad idea.
I see no point in changing anything now with the series gone. I'm not even sure there's much point in changing the batting except perhaps to protect shattered confidences. Give the likes of Hameed another couple of gos in the dead rubbers. Why not?
I see no point in changing anything now with the series gone. I'm not even sure there's much point in changing the batting except perhaps to protect shattered confidences. Give the likes of Hameed another couple of gos in the dead rubbers. Why not?
Mumbles274
running from law and the press and the parents
The thing is it's the same problems. Whether it's in australia or India or wherever, there are certain places that take a certain skill to play in, Just as England has too. And the teams that are good are the teams that can get on top in away conditions as well as home. As it is, Australia is one of the places we are worst at playing in. And it pisses me off that this is the case still in a modern age when it doesn't take 6 weeks by boat to get to Australia. Other than lions tours, how much chance do england prospects get to play red ball cricket is Australia? I find it a joke a national team can show up and look so befuddled by the conditions and have no sense of how to bat.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
This is the key point, of course. Squeezed into spring and autumn and a whole load of terrible pitches/conditions to bat in. Alastair Cook said that last season was the hardest he'd ever experienced. Somehow we haven't yet ruined the bowling by giving them such easy wickets, but we've ruined the batting by not giving them the chance to play for big scores. It's hit out and score what you can before you're out lbw to Darren Stevens to a ball that jagged sideways off a length.
Mumbles274
running from law and the press and the parents
Get Morgan back into the test team, whether he can bat well enough not being the point, but he can certainly captain
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It used to be common for young England players to go and play grade cricket in Aus unpaid during the winter. I think Root did it. Don't know how many still do. Of course none since covid.
ETA: they're after paid gigs in t20 over the winter now, of course.
RileyOBlimey
Well-Known Member
Isabelle Westbury in the Torygraph gives her review of possible captain candidates...
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However, England’s record when handing the captaincy armband to their talismanic star player is not a good one; think Ian Botham, Andrew Flintoff and Kevin Pietersen. Remember, too, that straight after the Pakistan white-ball win, Stokes took an indefinite break from cricket, in part at least due to mental fatigue. The Test captaincy at present is more a hospital pass than an accolade to behold. You only need to look at Root immediately following defeat at the MCG to understand; he will finish this year as the world’s leading Test runs corer and yet he is a beaten, almost broken, captain. Stokes is the kind of person who could never refuse the captaincy if offered, but whether it is the right thing for him, his cricket or his mind, let alone the team, is a question worth asking.
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Ben Stokes
Stokes, the redeemed figure of English cricket, is probably the first name to broach England cricket fans’ lips. We know that he’s passionate, can invigorate a dressing room and is a man many players have been inspired by. Plus, he is Root’s vice-captain and, in this year alone, has captained a series-winning England side when a Covid-replacement one-day team was drafted in to play Pakistan over the summer.However, England’s record when handing the captaincy armband to their talismanic star player is not a good one; think Ian Botham, Andrew Flintoff and Kevin Pietersen. Remember, too, that straight after the Pakistan white-ball win, Stokes took an indefinite break from cricket, in part at least due to mental fatigue. The Test captaincy at present is more a hospital pass than an accolade to behold. You only need to look at Root immediately following defeat at the MCG to understand; he will finish this year as the world’s leading Test runs corer and yet he is a beaten, almost broken, captain. Stokes is the kind of person who could never refuse the captaincy if offered, but whether it is the right thing for him, his cricket or his mind, let alone the team, is a question worth asking.
Jos Buttler
He has vice-captaincy experience, a calm, considered head on his shoulders and is generally liked by his team. He’s a brilliant cricketer and were he to focus on red-ball cricket as a priority, is perhaps a viable option. But this is an unrealistic scenario; Buttler is one of the hottest commodities in white-ball cricket and the question isn’t so much whether he wants the red-ball captaincy as whether he wants to play red-ball cricket at all. The thousand-yard stare has been on his face since those drops behind the stumps at Adelaide; is this the man to inspire an English resurgence in a format even he will acknowledge is not the one he thinks of first?Dawid Malan
The only man with recent red-ball captaincy experience, having been Middlesex’s skipper for two years before he joined Yorkshire. However, that tells the story in itself; Malan didn’t enjoy the captaincy and nor did his players. It didn’t do anything for Middlesex’s on-field fortunes either. Malan is a player who does things his own way and probably, in truth, is best left to get on with it as such. He’s the only other batsman beyond Root to score a half-century (two) in this series, after all. Surely not something to jeopardise.Eoin Morgan
Not quite as outrageous as you might think. When Australia needed a captain, pronto, to bail them out of a tricky situation immediately after the ball-tampering scandal, they looked beyond the dead-cert first XI starters for someone with a leadership pedigree. Morgan has that in abundance, would be a fresh and respected face in the England dressing room and might even be tempted to focus on red-ball cricket over white, after having already done most of what he might want to achieve in limited-overs cricket. Doesn’t have to be forever, you know. Think of it as a transition phase. May have to work on his short-ball game, though, especially against the likes of Pat Cummins and Jasprit Bumrah.Stuart Broad
Australia haven’t done too badly with a fast-bowling captain. Sure, Broad isn’t as sure of a place in the starting XI as Pat Cummins is, particularly on foreign soil. But he’d relish the opportunity to lead as he nears the tail-end of his career, and he’s a senior figure in the dressing room. Who knows, he may also take some responsibility into his batting, a discipline in which his statistics do not do his talent justice. Again, it’s not forever, but as a transition figure, a possibility.Rory Burns
Second-best runscorer this year behind (albeit a long way behind) Root and will be back in the team come the Sydney Test. Senior figure at Surrey and England, and by all accounts has the mental resolve to get through most things the game can throw at a man; bowled first ball of the Ashes being one of them. Will be interesting to see how he goes about the final two Tests.Moeen Ali
He’s retired from Test cricket, yes, we know. But as above with Morgan, Moeen has already proven how astute he is, having seen the writing on the wall about this Ashes series and departing before it was too late. Rumour has it he hasn’t given up on Test cricket as an idea forever, though, and as captain of Worcestershire and Birmingham Phoenix his charges absolutely raved about him. May insist on a condition in his contract that tours of Australia are out of the question, mind.James Vince
Similar to the Ali and Morgan proposition, with a good record at Hampshire. England’s saviour as a top-order batter, parachuting in simultaneously as captain?-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mumbles274
running from law and the press and the parents
It should be standard. Covid doesn't explain a current crop of people that can't bat there.
RileyOBlimey
Well-Known Member
Brearly couldn't bat (with an average of 22) but he was an amazing man manager. If it was 2 years ago, Morgan would be the obvious candidate. He's getting on in years now, although I'm sure he could average about the same as Bairstow and Pope at No. 6.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's not a ridiculous idea, although Brearley's position did become untenable cos of his batting in the end. Mind you an opener who can average 22 and is a great slip catcher (which Brearley was) sounds not so bad right now.
RileyOBlimey
Well-Known Member
It's time to start picking the best people for key positions. Who's the best captain? Who's the best keeper?
Mumbles274
running from law and the press and the parents
Eoin Morgan
Not quite as outrageous as you might think. When Australia needed a captain, pronto, to bail them out of a tricky situation immediately after the ball-tampering scandal, they looked beyond the dead-cert first XI starters for someone with a leadership pedigree. Morgan has that in abundance, would be a fresh and respected face in the England dressing room and might even be tempted to focus on red-ball cricket over white, after having already done most of what he might want to achieve in limited-overs cricket. Doesn’t have to be forever, you know. Think of it as a transition phase. May have to work on his short-ball game, though, especially against the likes of Pat Cummins and Jasprit Bumrah.Kind of what I was thinking
Mumbles274
running from law and the press and the parents
Morgan is the most successful cricket captain in england
Mumbles274
running from law and the press and the parents
BTW, I'm no fan of him, just thinking pragmatically
RileyOBlimey
Well-Known Member
He brings authority and garners respect. For the next couple of years England could do much worse. To preserve his back he would need to step away from white ball cricket. Considering he can still earn in the IPL, giving that pension pot up at the twilight of his career for the carnage of test cricket may not be too enticing.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
tbh Morgan has proved himself not great at red ball cricket both for England and Middx. He would probably average well under 30, like Brearley.
I prefer the idea of Moeen or Vince. Both have experience as captains, both are well regarded as captains. Both are more likely to contribute with bat or ball than Morgan.
Can't see it happening with Moeen. Feels like that ship has sailed, although he's probably still a decent shout as England's spin option in England. But Vince, why not? And at least he's a pleasure to watch for however long he stays in.
I prefer the idea of Moeen or Vince. Both have experience as captains, both are well regarded as captains. Both are more likely to contribute with bat or ball than Morgan.
Can't see it happening with Moeen. Feels like that ship has sailed, although he's probably still a decent shout as England's spin option in England. But Vince, why not? And at least he's a pleasure to watch for however long he stays in.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Who would even want it? A poisoned chalice. Hilarious to see Burns in that list. Not hilarious to see the Telegraph touting his recall. At the expense of Hameed no doubt. I doubt they've given any commitment to Hameed. Still playing game by game waiting to be dropped.
I reckon they'll offer it to Stokes. Out of loyalty to the cause he'd probably take it too.
I reckon they'll offer it to Stokes. Out of loyalty to the cause he'd probably take it too.
Mumbles274
running from law and the press and the parents
The thing that Morgan brings is a proven ability to turn a shit team around. He could get a duck in every match but if the team player better... If take an average of 22
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Catching is also an issue for selection, or should be. At least two of the specialist batters need to be reliable slip catchers. Root is reliable, so at least one more is needed. Hameed is a good fielder but not a slip catcher. Burns is awful. Sibley was awful.
I think this should be more of a consideration than it is. A properly brilliant slipper, like Mark Waugh or Rahul Dravid, has already earned his side a few runs before he walks out to bat.
I think this should be more of a consideration than it is. A properly brilliant slipper, like Mark Waugh or Rahul Dravid, has already earned his side a few runs before he walks out to bat.
Mumbles274
running from law and the press and the parents
And stokes hadn't been in the slips all series, what with his finger
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It doesn't even seem to be a consideration. I remember Adam Lyth, widely considered one of if not the best slipper in England, not even fielding in the slips when he debuted cos of seniority. That's a stupid way to do things.
RileyOBlimey
Well-Known Member
Old codgers on the defeat:
RileyOBlimey
Well-Known Member
Mark Butcher’s take:
