editor
hiraethified
If you've got nothing remotely intelligent to add, please zip it, squire.
terminally ill patients not allowed out of gaza
- Thread starter bluestreak
- Start date
Editor: I applaud you on yet another biased musing/warning. "Wriggle,wriggle,wriggle" and "muppet" and oh yeah,"your zionist scum" did not catch your notice but my tongue in cheek post alarmed you? Got it, let me write it down.
I would suggest calming down rach. The middle east crisis is something which affects and possibly effects upon you, or has, quite substantially. In many instances you've been articulate, honest and passionate in your responses. You are however, significantly outnumbered. You've answered my questions persuasively but you do make quite a few posts, many of which can seem quite, err, rambling. Maybe it would be better to chill out for a few days before returning to this healthy debate armed with quick one or two line responses (and the ability to see through those who wish to goad you) along with some supporting evidence. But I do see where you are coming from. Israel faces incredible popular antipathy from people (including myself) who are not well informed. People who are often willing to challenge media distortion and bias in all its forms, but often for those causes they deem worthy. Palestine is obviously one of those. So relax for a bit. Try going on Suburban75, they have some great carrot cake recipes.
I am (through the lens of the information that has been presented to me) a supporter of Palestinian freedom, although I am not always aware of what this might mean.
Magus: Haha. I can entirely understand your impression but it would take following this forum for at least a year to even understand slightly what is going on.
I happen to post on at least 14 boards, and that counts only those in English. Obviously the subject matter lends itself to contentiousness even among those not personally involved or affected. One can then merely imagine how someone such as myself who IS personally involved on several levels MIGHT be affected.
Truth be told, it is not something I obsess about, despite it taking up alot of my free time. I recognise the world for what it is, billions of individuals all with their own take on things. I do not begrudge others their viewpoint, and I expect others to treat me likewise. In reality, it does not always work according to plan.
Take this forum for example...It has a very obvious left wing/liberal slant and that is ok. I enjoy learning how others think. At the same time, I despise incivility and rudeness. In my entire 4 odd years on this board I have yet to use an expletive, even in jest. Yet, from my first time posting here, during which I honestly identified myself as an Israeli and in following posts as a member of the IDF, I was literally called a "baby killer" and it has been pretty much par for the course since then.
Although I would much prefer that Editor, one of our Mods, would take a more attentive approach to moderating this forum, I also realise that hers is not only a voluntary position but most often a thankless one as well.
As such , I do not expect to see her here 24 hours a day and riding people. I also believe totally in Freedom of Expression. However, when she or anyone else singles me out for a saracastic remark ((devoid of expletives), while totally ignoring the person to whom I address my comments (who in turn initiated the exchange with much more rancid comments). I feel it needs to be brought to attention.
"Significantly outnumbered.": Of course. But that was my point in posting here initially, and the reason why I continue posting. I believe such a forum could benefit from more diversity of opinion. Who on Earth would want to participate on a baord devoted only to their own perspective? Yet obviously we can see some would want just that.
I personally enjoy seeing even the most hateful of people express themselves, as long as they do so without spewing obscentities.
"Rambling.": Haha. To say the least. But then I am responding point by point to each and every person who addresses me. I think that this is not only the polite thing to do (even when addressed impolitely myself), but beneficial to the forum as a whole.
If 6 people address me personally, and then I see points raised by two others, points that I know to be grossly incorrect, as a member of the forum I feel it only right to offer what I feel is the correct take on things.
I take itr that you are new in this ofrum. Forgive me if my assumption is incorrect. There are many weeks that I do not post at all because I travel quite a bit. When I do have down time, such as now and a bit of the coming week, I enjoy participating.
"Some supporting evidence.": Whenever I am asked in a civil manner, if I am able, I do so. there are times when I honestly let people know that I will be travelling or otherwise busy for so many days and could they please remind me after that given period of time. Understandably most people do not keep track of my comings and goings so that sometimes requested proof falls by the wayside. Othertimes I am insulted outright and see no reason whatsoever why I should oblige, let alone continue engaing such an individual.
A supporter of "Palestinian Freedom?" Believe it or not, so am I. For many years I have supported the right of "Palestinians" to determine thier own futures, within their own borders, as long as those borders do not negate my nation and its existence...and as long as "Palestinians" do not rely on terrorism to achieve these ends.
While I certainly appreciate your imput, I also have to honestly add that I find it curious as well, why you have not taken the time to publicly advise those members that curse and belittle as well? I I imagine though that you have your own reasons and will leave it at that.
I happen to post on at least 14 boards, and that counts only those in English. Obviously the subject matter lends itself to contentiousness even among those not personally involved or affected. One can then merely imagine how someone such as myself who IS personally involved on several levels MIGHT be affected.
Truth be told, it is not something I obsess about, despite it taking up alot of my free time. I recognise the world for what it is, billions of individuals all with their own take on things. I do not begrudge others their viewpoint, and I expect others to treat me likewise. In reality, it does not always work according to plan.
Take this forum for example...It has a very obvious left wing/liberal slant and that is ok. I enjoy learning how others think. At the same time, I despise incivility and rudeness. In my entire 4 odd years on this board I have yet to use an expletive, even in jest. Yet, from my first time posting here, during which I honestly identified myself as an Israeli and in following posts as a member of the IDF, I was literally called a "baby killer" and it has been pretty much par for the course since then.
Although I would much prefer that Editor, one of our Mods, would take a more attentive approach to moderating this forum, I also realise that hers is not only a voluntary position but most often a thankless one as well.
As such , I do not expect to see her here 24 hours a day and riding people. I also believe totally in Freedom of Expression. However, when she or anyone else singles me out for a saracastic remark ((devoid of expletives), while totally ignoring the person to whom I address my comments (who in turn initiated the exchange with much more rancid comments). I feel it needs to be brought to attention.
"Significantly outnumbered.": Of course. But that was my point in posting here initially, and the reason why I continue posting. I believe such a forum could benefit from more diversity of opinion. Who on Earth would want to participate on a baord devoted only to their own perspective? Yet obviously we can see some would want just that.
I personally enjoy seeing even the most hateful of people express themselves, as long as they do so without spewing obscentities.
"Rambling.": Haha. To say the least. But then I am responding point by point to each and every person who addresses me. I think that this is not only the polite thing to do (even when addressed impolitely myself), but beneficial to the forum as a whole.
If 6 people address me personally, and then I see points raised by two others, points that I know to be grossly incorrect, as a member of the forum I feel it only right to offer what I feel is the correct take on things.
I take itr that you are new in this ofrum. Forgive me if my assumption is incorrect. There are many weeks that I do not post at all because I travel quite a bit. When I do have down time, such as now and a bit of the coming week, I enjoy participating.
"Some supporting evidence.": Whenever I am asked in a civil manner, if I am able, I do so. there are times when I honestly let people know that I will be travelling or otherwise busy for so many days and could they please remind me after that given period of time. Understandably most people do not keep track of my comings and goings so that sometimes requested proof falls by the wayside. Othertimes I am insulted outright and see no reason whatsoever why I should oblige, let alone continue engaing such an individual.
A supporter of "Palestinian Freedom?" Believe it or not, so am I. For many years I have supported the right of "Palestinians" to determine thier own futures, within their own borders, as long as those borders do not negate my nation and its existence...and as long as "Palestinians" do not rely on terrorism to achieve these ends.
While I certainly appreciate your imput, I also have to honestly add that I find it curious as well, why you have not taken the time to publicly advise those members that curse and belittle as well? I I imagine though that you have your own reasons and will leave it at that.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
the editors a she.... hahaha this if anytign goes to show how widly out of touch with realuity you are the only way the editor would ever be a she is if there was a battle of the beanfield memorial pantomime exhibition and he was an ugly sister...
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
You're not doing yourself any favours here, are you?
You know perfectly well that the Editor isn't female but, as we already know, that is one of the ways in which you try to denigrate others. It would appear that, not only are you a liar, you are a misogynist as well.
Garfield: "The Editor is a she...": So what? So I GUESSED, or ASSUMED that his or her gender was one or the other. Usually I write it as his/her but does it really matter? If you champion gender identification so much (I really have to laugh at that), why not simply NICELY let me know that I had used the wrong pronoun? I see it as a chance , any chance to try and denigrate me.
Garfield, do you ever tire of concentrating on trivia? OF not discussing issues related to threads? Or even the forum you are posting in?
I do not understand your talk of beanfields. Just more off topic banter I surmise.
Nino: I appreciate the concern but onething I mantain and have since day one is that I am honest to a fault. If Editor is irked by that, while remembering that I am civl at all costs, there is not much I can do then, is there? Should I instead play games and be untrue to myself? The fact ism and others have said it, moderation here is highly selective.
Many times it can be written off as too little help to see and hear everything but in cases where I have been insulted 3 times in just the preceeding 10 posts and in much more atrocious ways I have to call it as I see it.
"Rachamim knows full well that Editor is not female.": That is pretty funny. How in the world would I know that? To be honest I should have posted he/she or "her or she" but ffor some reason I held that he was a she...maybe I confused him with Fridge for some reason. Anyway, what does it matter. IT is a pronoun for Heaven's sake, not a moral judgement. Talk about ossesing over nothing!
"Rachamim is a misogynist.": Um, Nino, you DO know what a misogynist is, do you not? It is one who hates women. So my saying that Editor is a "she" is a way of expressing my supposed hatred of all females? You mean Editor is that unpalatable? Have you tried to work these issues out with Editor? This hatred you seem to have is unhealthy.
Garfield, do you ever tire of concentrating on trivia? OF not discussing issues related to threads? Or even the forum you are posting in?
I do not understand your talk of beanfields. Just more off topic banter I surmise.
Nino: I appreciate the concern but onething I mantain and have since day one is that I am honest to a fault. If Editor is irked by that, while remembering that I am civl at all costs, there is not much I can do then, is there? Should I instead play games and be untrue to myself? The fact ism and others have said it, moderation here is highly selective.
Many times it can be written off as too little help to see and hear everything but in cases where I have been insulted 3 times in just the preceeding 10 posts and in much more atrocious ways I have to call it as I see it.
"Rachamim knows full well that Editor is not female.": That is pretty funny. How in the world would I know that? To be honest I should have posted he/she or "her or she" but ffor some reason I held that he was a she...maybe I confused him with Fridge for some reason. Anyway, what does it matter. IT is a pronoun for Heaven's sake, not a moral judgement. Talk about ossesing over nothing!
"Rachamim is a misogynist.": Um, Nino, you DO know what a misogynist is, do you not? It is one who hates women. So my saying that Editor is a "she" is a way of expressing my supposed hatred of all females? You mean Editor is that unpalatable? Have you tried to work these issues out with Editor? This hatred you seem to have is unhealthy.
You clearly don't bother to read as many posts as you should to be entitled to claim the status of an independent moderator. I think that's a shame.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Another tedious screed from a man with nothing to offer but hatred.
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
Are you ever going to offer any REAL, INFORMED commentary, opinion, or insight on the topics discussed? Or are you going to continue making personal or denigrating personal comments about some of the commentators whose political standpoint you oppose?
From you I see nothing but obsession with rachamim18 and 98% of your posts here are not about the topic for discussion.
It is becoming tiresome to see the track that some, including you, are taking.
Please discuss the topic, and not the poster please.
The topic is about terminally ill patients in Gaza, not rachamim.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Yawn. Let's get something straight here: I've tried to engage him, it's pointless. You just end up going around in circles. You're quite welcome to 'debate' with him but I can't really see what you hope to achieve by engaging in discussion with such a dishonest poster. I mean, what do you actually get out of this?
May I direct you to post nos. 11 and 14 and Rach's subsequent efforts to evade the questions put to him? No. 15 is fairly typical of the way in which he personalises these 'debates'.
You take yourself and him a wee bit too seriously imo.
Aye, this is becoming tiresome, alright.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
You clearly don't bother to read as many posts as you should to be entitled to claim the status of an independent moderator. I think that's a shame.
What and you think he has the time to read every single post
What and you think he has the time to read every single post
As a moderator he should read the relevant ones.
Nino" "Nino has tried to engage Rachamim.": Needless to say I beg to differe but for argument and brevity's sake, let us say you are correct...Now, can we get past THAT? I am here, NOW, and willing to engage you on an ADULT level and as long as you skip the insults of any caliber, I would be happy to discuss this and other issues with you. I hope, for both the thread AND forum's sake we can skip the nonsense and behave like adults...all of us. Thanks in advance.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
and how long have you been a moderator exactly now lock?
how long has you rather volumious website been high trafficed and in neeed of near unrepenting ungreatful maintainence in order to allow the few thousand bored people to continue posting in trobule free enviroments....
tell me again exactly how you are qualified in any wya shape or form to attack the moderational staff of this website?
or is this more of you attacking posters unlikely to return to the thread in order to make yourself look bigger??
so if you have again anything to add to the topic rather than you standard off topic personal attacks on others....
you really are an oxygen theif and in many ways much worse than rach; at least rach isn't hiding his agenda he accepts his a racist bigotted poster with deeply unpleasent views, you on the other hand don't even have the fall back of being an abject racist you are just meaninglessly bitter...
in fact you are entirely meaningless in all ways to this forum and all which you post on.
what a shame that you have denigrated yourself to such a point that all you crave is yet more negative attentsion...
Man, I got a great luagh at that one Garfield. I accept that I am a "racist, bigotted poster?" What kind of spaced out nonsense was that?
A Zionist is not automatically a racist, despite what some Arabs pretend (needless to say they also have their non-Arab supporters like you). As I have told you many times, please demonstrate a single post where I have said something racist. Of course you will just respond with some general insult but it would be nice if I was answered with substance for once.
A Zionist is not automatically a racist, despite what some Arabs pretend (needless to say they also have their non-Arab supporters like you). As I have told you many times, please demonstrate a single post where I have said something racist. Of course you will just respond with some general insult but it would be nice if I was answered with substance for once.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
i don't beleive i have ever said a zionist is automatically racist however the sucession of one group of people based on cultral supremacy over others is indeed racist in it's concept and you my son are indeed both a sumpremacist and a racist so the argument doens't need to extend to your supremacist friends as indeed i was reffering directly to you.
there's nothing insulting about that except you attemts to do so to others intellgence considering the constant insessant bile you out pour here and in other places...
care to expalin again why shooting a child is a good kill... love... your very words in refference to shooting a little palestinian girl. Indeed, remarks which if made during aprtide in Africa wouldn't have been considered out of place from pw botha ...
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
is that your admitance you have no response other than you are a mc mod with delusions of grandure...
Garfield : "(Again chickling as I try to not choke on these Hunana Dumplings): Pray tell, how I am a culturally chauvinist? When have I EVER claimed, EVER that Jewwish Culture was superior to another?
"Supremacist." INSULT#1
"Racicst." INSULT#2
"Incessant bile." INSULT #3.
"Remarks that would not be out of place of Botha." INSULT#4
Well then, next time you go whining to a Mod about how I should be banned, we have a handy flow chart to bein keeping record of your nonsense, do we not?
To answer your question though, as talking from an expereinced military officer to a person, probably a youngster, who has never held a gun in his life...I would be more than happy to explain to you and to othersjust why shooting a PARTICULAR child could be labeled a "Good Kill."
The term "Good Kill" means one that is legal under the Rules of War, AND under Rules of Engagement. I will remind you that police, sadly, are soemtimes compelled to fire their guns at people of all ages when their lives are in danger, or the lives of others are in danger.
The particulr case YOU refer to relates to a 13 year old girl who physically could have been 20 (not that that was a factor since even teens function as human bombs thewre), and who entered a so called Kill Zone.
A Kill Zone is an area where all pedestrian and vehicular traffic are forbidden due to very clear safety concerns. The zone in question skirted a Camp on one side, had a wide sad track next to it. and then a Border Barrier mext to the sand track, IT held Observational Towers on both ends of the sand track, one end the other as per sht elength, as well as one up on the Barrier.
This of course being the border with Egypt, along the so called Philadelphi Track.
As morning mists were still clearing Observation Tower one reported by radio that a female between the ages of 10 and 20 was entering the Zone despiute the many signs in Arabic, Hebrew, and English. As she entered Tower One was instructed bto use his PA and warn the girl to desist. At this point, before he made the warning he also observed a male in his 20s walking almost paralell to the girl but on the other side of a chainlinked and razor topped fence encircling the Camp.
He also noticed the girl to be carrying a medium sized black bag as the kind of satchel utilised by terrorists at the time to carry charges and he immeditely PA'd her to cease and desist, to stand still, hands on head. At that point the man on the other side of the fence began running on a left angle into the Camp and escaped.
Ob#1 radioed in that development, the sighting of the man and his subsequent escape upon issing orders to the female.
At this stage Captain R. the leader of the Druse Havar Batalion, the one manning this zone and a crack battalion, took control while in constant contact with HQ.
As he conferred with Superiors the girl took off at a brisk pace with hands now down at her sides, the classic move of an impending Suicide Bombing. She began running full speed right at the sabdbagged positions uynder the OB Tower at the end of the sand track.
Cpt. R issued the take down order and when men from Tower 2, up against the Barrier, facing the Camp saw her go down they radioed it in.
Capt R, via binos said he confirmed no visible movement and asked his men on site for an assesment.
The famous quote of "she is just a young girl" was then fed to Capt. R. where he then left the Ob Post and headed over to the track where she lay and capped her off and said even a 3 year old must die.
Why did he say what has been seeb here and on Arab sirtes as soemthing so callous? Beecause in war you must double tap (although Rules have been modified since to negate this valuable policy, nothing has changed on the ground). Anyone who has been in combat can tell you many storied about seemingl;y dead opposition who suddenly through adrenalin or whatever, rose up and killed some of the repondants' copomrades. I have seen it a few times.
Anyonme I have killed I have killed and killed good. Anmyone in combat who does not is not worth his uniform. The idea in co,mbat is to kill and for people such as yourself Garfield that may be unpalatable...although you have the audoicty top label HAMAS as "Resistance Fighters" anmd "Freedom Fighters" so I do not know how you think.
The comment about "shoot even if they are 3" was a response, to a first year Inductee who asked the Captain what to do if it s a child like the girl...not knowing yet that she was 13 wghich means in localculture that she was 2 years past the age of marrying so no child at all (our country is not England).
It was not meant to be a literal command, like shoot 3 year olds but an analogy I guess best describes it. Too bad proganda hags like some on this site do not care for truth and only for hyperbole.
"Supremacist." INSULT#1
"Racicst." INSULT#2
"Incessant bile." INSULT #3.
"Remarks that would not be out of place of Botha." INSULT#4
Well then, next time you go whining to a Mod about how I should be banned, we have a handy flow chart to bein keeping record of your nonsense, do we not?
To answer your question though, as talking from an expereinced military officer to a person, probably a youngster, who has never held a gun in his life...I would be more than happy to explain to you and to othersjust why shooting a PARTICULAR child could be labeled a "Good Kill."
The term "Good Kill" means one that is legal under the Rules of War, AND under Rules of Engagement. I will remind you that police, sadly, are soemtimes compelled to fire their guns at people of all ages when their lives are in danger, or the lives of others are in danger.
The particulr case YOU refer to relates to a 13 year old girl who physically could have been 20 (not that that was a factor since even teens function as human bombs thewre), and who entered a so called Kill Zone.
A Kill Zone is an area where all pedestrian and vehicular traffic are forbidden due to very clear safety concerns. The zone in question skirted a Camp on one side, had a wide sad track next to it. and then a Border Barrier mext to the sand track, IT held Observational Towers on both ends of the sand track, one end the other as per sht elength, as well as one up on the Barrier.
This of course being the border with Egypt, along the so called Philadelphi Track.
As morning mists were still clearing Observation Tower one reported by radio that a female between the ages of 10 and 20 was entering the Zone despiute the many signs in Arabic, Hebrew, and English. As she entered Tower One was instructed bto use his PA and warn the girl to desist. At this point, before he made the warning he also observed a male in his 20s walking almost paralell to the girl but on the other side of a chainlinked and razor topped fence encircling the Camp.
He also noticed the girl to be carrying a medium sized black bag as the kind of satchel utilised by terrorists at the time to carry charges and he immeditely PA'd her to cease and desist, to stand still, hands on head. At that point the man on the other side of the fence began running on a left angle into the Camp and escaped.
Ob#1 radioed in that development, the sighting of the man and his subsequent escape upon issing orders to the female.
At this stage Captain R. the leader of the Druse Havar Batalion, the one manning this zone and a crack battalion, took control while in constant contact with HQ.
As he conferred with Superiors the girl took off at a brisk pace with hands now down at her sides, the classic move of an impending Suicide Bombing. She began running full speed right at the sabdbagged positions uynder the OB Tower at the end of the sand track.
Cpt. R issued the take down order and when men from Tower 2, up against the Barrier, facing the Camp saw her go down they radioed it in.
Capt R, via binos said he confirmed no visible movement and asked his men on site for an assesment.
The famous quote of "she is just a young girl" was then fed to Capt. R. where he then left the Ob Post and headed over to the track where she lay and capped her off and said even a 3 year old must die.
Why did he say what has been seeb here and on Arab sirtes as soemthing so callous? Beecause in war you must double tap (although Rules have been modified since to negate this valuable policy, nothing has changed on the ground). Anyone who has been in combat can tell you many storied about seemingl;y dead opposition who suddenly through adrenalin or whatever, rose up and killed some of the repondants' copomrades. I have seen it a few times.
Anyonme I have killed I have killed and killed good. Anmyone in combat who does not is not worth his uniform. The idea in co,mbat is to kill and for people such as yourself Garfield that may be unpalatable...although you have the audoicty top label HAMAS as "Resistance Fighters" anmd "Freedom Fighters" so I do not know how you think.
The comment about "shoot even if they are 3" was a response, to a first year Inductee who asked the Captain what to do if it s a child like the girl...not knowing yet that she was 13 wghich means in localculture that she was 2 years past the age of marrying so no child at all (our country is not England).
It was not meant to be a literal command, like shoot 3 year olds but an analogy I guess best describes it. Too bad proganda hags like some on this site do not care for truth and only for hyperbole.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
intresting that you claim 4 facts about your posting style which are self evident in every asepct of your posts fromt he start of your career here and can be refferce infinately are insult.
I'm sorry you are insulted by the cold hard truth.
sadly we don't pander to elephantine self delsuion on these boards.
you have been weight measured and found distinctly lacking rach you can continue indefinatley to mangel the semantics of the english language to more and more perverse forms in order to sanctify what you write but it changes nothing...
I'm sorry you are insulted by the cold hard truth.
sadly we don't pander to elephantine self delsuion on these boards.
you have been weight measured and found distinctly lacking rach you can continue indefinatley to mangel the semantics of the english language to more and more perverse forms in order to sanctify what you write but it changes nothing...
and how long have you been a moderator exactly now Garf?
Garfield: It must be something along the lines of British Humour (I DO like Little Britain though and if you will dress up like Ting Tong I will take a gander at you) but you reallllly must be stretching it . Now you are trying to play Panda by impressing us with your reaching grasp of English semantics?
Here is an idea love. Try it in Arabic cause then you might have a chance at actually understanding some of your source material. Thanks in advance.
Here is an idea love. Try it in Arabic cause then you might have a chance at actually understanding some of your source material. Thanks in advance.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Citing Little Britain now? Whatever next?
Hey, what can I say? The only thing I really dig about them is the Ting Tong shtick. You should have seen me in Mindanao playing it for my wife's family. Electrcity is a new thing out there and when the tv is going people tend to gather in huge groups. So all of them are there and I play the skit where she shows up for the first time, Ting Tong that is. Imagine trying to explain that to a group of Filipinos. Ha! I almost piss down my leg now thinking of it. Me wallowing and guffawing with about 70 very stoic faces just looking back at me...as so many of them dream of sending off daughters in that manner...Ahhhhh....
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
ah so you only get the deeply unfunny racist part of little britian which belittles an entire subset of people who are different from what you associate with the normality of humanity.
here's the new boss ... etc...
here's the new boss ... etc...
Yes, as one who is married to a Filipina, I found it distinctly fuinny. Sad people seeking romance over the net (no offence if that is your thing) I recognised the hilarity inherent in the joke.
Funny though that you would find soemthing wrong even with that. Talk about a permamant frown. Hate sunny days and puppy dogs as well?
Funny though that you would find soemthing wrong even with that. Talk about a permamant frown. Hate sunny days and puppy dogs as well?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Now then are you going to tell me that there isn't a contradiction here between what you have said about marrying out/dating and your current situation? It seems to me that someone is being economical with the truth.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
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