Support the French Rioters!

[soulman]

I wrote a long reply to some of the people on this thread. Then I deleted the entire thing, as with some people it's just not worth engaging with in any way whatsoever.

You could send it to Freedom

 

[Top Dog]

it must be a real problem. It can be difficult to get people to get involved in politically activity anyway - and if the first time you bring someone to a demo they are surrounded by police and face the possiblity of arrest - well it must be hard to bring them back a second time (well, I guess to some people its grist for the mill, but for others it must be intimidating).

if only it was just 'action' that was pigged to fuck. POlicital meetings and social events in London still continue to be targetted on a regular basis. As Random says, we're partly a victim of our previous successes... this has been going on really since J18 (where the met police got a public lambasting over their 'failures'), and has intensified if anything post 9-11 with so many new 'threats' to throw money at.

There was/is an initiative that started in London whereby we were looking at 'counter-FIT' strategies to challenge police harassment... It seems this fizzled out a bit in recent months, i guess as other activities have been taking up people's time over the spring and the summer

 

[sovietpop]

There was/is an initiative that started in London whereby we were looking at 'counter-FIT' strategies to challenge police harassment... It seems this fizzled out a bit in recent months, i guess as other activities have been taking up people's time over the spring and the summer

What sort of things were people thinking at doing? The way I see it now, arnarchos are being denied political space and being squeezed out. Perhaps one idea would be to build alliances with more mainstream political forces, build a coalition of opposition (on yer own your too small). I remember thinking after the Texco May Day last year that next time groups would be maybe better doing that sort of event in conjunction with some trade unions (if that was possible). Talking off the top of my head here.

 

[Top Dog]

What sort of things were people thinking at doing? The way I see it now, arnarchos are being denied political space and being squeezed out. Perhaps one idea would be to build alliances with more mainstream political forces, build a coalition of opposition (on yer own your too small).

immediately: leafleting the local community where the meeting/social is being held on the day of the meeting (or better still, immediately beforehand) explaining why (in our words) there is such a police presence in the area (community relations angle), making fun of the cops - megaphones mocking them, taking their pictures (countering the intimidation tactic - esp. good when people come along to a meeting for the first time), arranging to arrive at the meeting in groups (and leaving together) so as not to be singled out for following/intimidation, letters of complaint to the met on each occasion they turn out (create collosal admin)

longer term: a database to monitor all events police are targeting, which groups are they hassling, which cops were there, what was said etc. with the aim of taking a legal action against the met. There are quite a number of other ideas also...

Aside from that project there is also the Freedom to Protest initiative which is more along the lines of what you mention - much wider constituency - that took place recently. We await to see what if anything emerges from that.

 

[sovietpop]

Aside from that project there is also the Freedom to Protest initiative which is more along the lines of what you mention - much wider constituency - that took place recently. We await to see what if anything emerges from that.

Was that the meeting that was held the Sunday after the bookfair? Did you go or hear any reports?

 

[Top Dog]

Was that the meeting that was held the Sunday after the bookfair? Did you go or hear any reports?

Yeah i went along to the early part of it. Probably around 200 odd people over the day. Here's a report from schNews on it http://www.schnews.org.uk/archive/news518.htm

 

[sovietpop]

Yeah i went along to the early part of it. Probably around 200 odd people over the day. Here's a report from schNews on it http://www.schnews.org.uk/archive/news518.htm

ta

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Yeah, we're not a therapy group for Revol to vent at.

i have a plan:

diagram here

 

[pidgeonhead]

And what, pray, do YOU know about the French anarchist movement?

I know enough about the "boer" conducting the rioting to know that they would listen to the immam, but never to those such as yourself who would support measures to eradicate all forms of organised religion, if of course you go along with the recognised anarchist principles.

Much like New Orleans - religion has far more influence than anarchist thought - there was no predicted class war there and there isn't one in Paris - just a bunch of marginalised kids.

Besides - I think the petty sniping in this thread proves my point more than adequately here.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

who would support measures to eradicate all forms of organised religion, if of course you go along with the recognised anarchist principles.

Yep. There would be a law against all religion and if you broke it we'd send out the Anarchist Police and put you in Anarchist Jail.

geniuschild

 

[pidgeonhead]

Yep. There would be a law against all religion and if you broke it we'd send out the Anarchist Police and put you in Anarchist Jail.

geniuschild

You seem to have forgotten the plight of the Spanish priests and churches during the anarchist uprising.

Or maybe you're still trying to find your anarcho-feet.

Either way - ask any anarchist to explain his position on religion, or the position of his chosen faction, and you will see right there one of the major reasons why their involvement in anything is limited to a few militants and a load of navel gazing as to why they keep failing to motivate people.

For example:

Aims and Principles of the Anarchist federation

*10. We oppose organised religion and beliefs. *******************

http://www.af-north.org/principles.htm

Yet still many anarchists presume to have a possibility of influencing French rioters who are mainly from Islamic backgrounds, or perhaps disenfranchised black people in New Orleans who are often devout Christians.

Yeah, good luck with that.

 

[revol68]

You seem to have forgotten the plight of the Spanish priests and churches during the anarchist uprising.

Or maybe you're still trying to find your anarcho-feet.

Either way - ask any anarchist to explain his position on religion, or the position of his chosen faction, and you will see right there one of the major reasons why their involvement in anything is limited to a few militants and a load of navel gazing as to why they keep failing to motivate people.

For example:

Aims and Principles of the Anarchist federation

*10. We oppose organised religion and beliefs. *******************

http://www.af-north.org/principles.htm

Yet still many anarchists presume to have a possibility of influencing French rioters who are mainly from Islamic backgrounds, or perhaps disenfranchised black people in New Orleans who are often devout Christians.

Yeah, good luck with that.

do you really think most of those kids in Paris give too flying fucks about Allah?

 

[Herbert Read]

do you really think most of those kids in Paris give too flying fucks about Allah?

Of course they do its an islamic conspiracy, i always kiss my picture of the pope before i commit some property destruction.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

You seem to have forgotten the plight of the Spanish priests and churches during the anarchist uprising.

Or maybe you're still trying to find your anarcho-feet.

yes i am actually

1) Its spelt pigeon

2) no i had not forgotten the priests and i wondered if you might say something like that. I'm not disputing anarchism opposes organised religion, i was mocking your idea that anarchists would 'take measures' to eradicate all religion which is clearly bollocks.

The spanish church is the catholic church, an international body that supports hierarchy, class, elitism, sexism and homophobia - and although that is not explicit now it certainly was then. The church in spain was also an integral part of the fascist dictatorship, and keeps close ties with the far right today.

They were not attacked due to their beliefs but their actions.

I worked with people in religious parties in Palestine and i can tell you that anarchists and religious nutjobs can work fine together with a common cause: i don't suppose they much cared that i had a girlfriend out of wedlock, drank alchohol, was gay, was a drug user, may sometimes walk topless in public - they might have thought all these things, but i was there to help not fuck their daughters. Similarly i didn't really care that they believed in an invisible force that ran the worldn and knew everything - they'd clearly worked out that getting rid of the occupation was up to them not Allah, so that was fine for me.

Its the same in paris: some issues are bigger than personal beliefs.

The current day Catholic Worker organisation is pretty much anarchist, or associates itself with anarchism more than any other political movement.

You can find themhere

 

[pidgeonhead]

do you really think most of those kids in Paris give too flying f***s about Allah?

What - you really think they don't?

Maybe they just need to become card-carrying anarchists, forget all that mosque stuff... dye their sisters' hijab black and wear it as a facemask... of course.

A simple solution to everything, isn't there, when you're a believer in Utopia.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Read my post you toy.

 

[Pickman's model]

You seem to have forgotten the plight of the Spanish priests and churches during the anarchist uprising.

they got what they so richly deserved.

 

[Random]

they got what they so richly deserved.

Apart from the priests and nuns that opposed Franco and were later executed in their droves by God's chosen army.

 

[Pickman's model]

Apart from the priests and nuns that opposed Franco and were later executed in their droves by God's chosen army.

yeh, obviously.

 

[pidgeonhead]

Who are you calling a "toy" little boy?

What this "Catholic Worker muppet" stuff about?

And what is YOUR view on religion, seeing as you see yourself as becoming an anarchist when you grow up?

And Pickmans Model - how did 1,215 monks, nuns, and priests in the province of Barcelona alone deserve to be massacred??

 

[revol68]

What - you really think they don't?

Maybe they just need to become card-carrying anarchists, forget all that mosque stuff... dye their sisters' hijab black and wear it as a facemask... of course.

A simple solution to everything, isn't there, when you're a believer in Utopia.

you daft cunt, every one fo the rioters ahs said it's caused they are treated like shit, cos they wanna hit back, that France hates them and they hate france, they don't feel algerian either, they are in the words of one of them nothing.

In the words of another "france is stamping their face into the shit".

These kids feel no belief in anything they know the Imans are useless. Some of them might believe in god in a very vague way but their lifestyles are very secular, they share a culture more in tune with NWA than Nation of Islam.

 

[rednblack]

Yep. There would be a law against all religion and if you broke it we'd send out the Anarchist Police and put you in Anarchist Jail.

geniuschild

that can only happen when the anarchist party gets elected though unfortunately...

 

[revol68]

Who are you calling a "toy" little boy?

What this "Catholic Worker muppet" stuff about?

And what is YOUR view on religion, seeing as you see yourself as becoming an anarchist when you grow up?

And Pickmans Model - how did 1,215 monks, nuns, and priests in the province of Barcelona deserve to be massacred??

for being facist lil fuckers, for informing on union members, for teaching ignorance for thousands of years, let the fuckers die sure won't they go to heaven?

 

[Taxamo Welf]

i'm calling you a toy, cos you are son.

Glad to clear that up

 

[pidgeonhead]

you daft cunt, every one fo the rioters ahs said it's caused they are treated like shit, cos they wanna hit back, that France hates them and they hate france, they don't feel algerian either, they are in the words of one of them nothing.

In the words of another "france is stamping their face into the shit".

These kids feel no belief in anything they know the Imans are useless. Some of them might believe in god in a very vague way but their lifestyles are very secular, they share a culture more in tune with NWA than Nation of Islam.

Then you clearly have no idea of who the "boer" really are.

Have you ever actually been to Paris?

Or Marseilles, where the issue is perhaps even more serious, potentially?

 

[Taxamo Welf]

These kids feel no belief in anything

There are branches of Herbert Read ourside yorkshire

 

[pidgeonhead]

i'm calling you a toy, cos you are son.

Glad to clear that up

Are you mad? You're just a little kid, though I'm intrigued by your "Catholic Worker muppet" thing... were you talking to someone else?

I have a feeling you're just another public schoolboy playing with political symbols... prove me wrong, give me your own opinions on religion.

 

[revol68]

Then you clearly have no idea of who the "boer" really are.

Have you ever actually been to Paris?

Or Marseilles, where the issue is perhaps even more serious, potentially?

well actually a friend of mine grew up in the shitty suburbs, and she says religion really has fuck all to do with it.

Plus you only have to look at the hip hop culture that has permeated those areas to know they aren't rocking the fucking koran too much.

And if it was religious how come the kids haven't listen to the fatwa put out about the rioting?

Also alot of the youth aren't even fucking muslim, are they fighting for allah too?

 

[Taxamo Welf]

you daft cunt, every one fo the rioters ahs said it's caused they are treated like shit, cos they wanna hit back, that France hates them and they hate france, they don't feel algerian either, they are in the words of one of them nothing.

In the words of another "france is stamping their face into the shit".

These kids feel no belief in anything they know the Imans are useless. Some of them might believe in god in a very vague way but their lifestyles are very secular, they share a culture more in tune with NWA than Nation of Islam.

i disagree - you can't presuppose their religious beliefs, but its unimportant anyway - religion is clearly not their motivation.

 

[Pickman's model]

And Pickmans Model - how did 1,215 monks, nuns, and priests in the province of Barcelona alone deserve to be massacred??

how?

my preference is usually for the wheel. but with such a large number it would have taken too long. do we hang 'em or do we shoot 'em - that's usually the question. or the knife. iirc the locals came down on the side of shooting in many cases, which is by no means perfect but it does the job.