Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
Where's Niclas to defend his leader's St David's Day celebration on Wall Street - the street that keeps you and I off easy street?
St David's Day - COUNTER DEMO
- Thread starter Udo Erasmus
- Start date
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
Welsh national feeling is a non-political, every day thing, completely just, natural and constructive, and is what most people on this thread have. What is the point in opposing it?
Welsh nationalism is a political movement which a few people on this thread including me believe in, but most don't.
St. David's Day is to celebrate Welsh national feeling, not Welsh nationalism, though of course nationalism is a (small) part of the identity.
Welsh nationalism is a political movement which a few people on this thread including me believe in, but most don't.
St. David's Day is to celebrate Welsh national feeling, not Welsh nationalism, though of course nationalism is a (small) part of the identity.
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
It doesn't need defending. IWJ is a centrist, reformist leader. What's he meant to do, put out a press release saying 'Wall Street is the street that keeps you and I off easy street'? Ffs.
Presumably that's why Welsh medium eduction is continually oversubscribed, and why Cardiff City fans, even as far afield as Bridgend, can now be seen with the St. David's cross tattooed on their arms.
You really don't get out much do you?
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
From a Plaid blog
Dic Penderyn
Newport Civic Pride!
To be fair, the idea of swapping a day off in May or August for one in March doesn't sound that great...
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
Was on the train today and it was very very obvious that an absolute tonne of working class people in South Wales are FAR more obsessed with Welshness than I am!
chainsaw cat
Tea. Biccies. Happy now?
You are 17, you have middle class parents who pay you no attention or are divorced, you live in Surrey and you have never seen any sort of war at all.
I started a long winded response to Udo's tripe, then I realised I couldn't be fucken to finish it because the fact is that Welsh identity is important, and until more smaller nations 'find their feet,' so to speak, there's no chance of proper internationalism. Get out more too, you pudding.
penderyn2000
unapologetic socialist
Udo Erasmus commits a cardinal sin for a socialist: failing to differentiate between an oppressed and an oppressor nation. While it is true that Wales is now an integrated part of the British state and is not oppressed as a nation by England today (though a disturbingly high proportion of Welsh leftists seem to think there's a direct parallel with Israel and Palestine), it certainly was oppressed as a nation historically, aspects of anti-Welsh prejudice and marginalisation still exist and the right of the Welsh people to self-determination, if we so choose, is unquestionable.
International socialism will never be achieved by trampling on the national aspirations of smaller nations or by demeaning their sense of national identity. One of Lenin's first acts after the 1917 revolution was to support the secession of Ukraine – a measure later reversed by Stalin, using a similar justification to Udo Erasmus here.
This doesn't mean that socialists should advocate independence for Wales – far from it. Most Welsh workers recognise that their interests will not be promoted by secession. And the idea promoted by the Fourth International (Pabloism) that petit-bourgeois independence movements would lead the way to socialism proved disastrously wrong.
The most striking thing about this year's St Davids Day events, however, is that they intend to celebrate the supposed glorious work done by Welsh soldiers in the UK army invading two sovereign nations. What socialists should be doing, rather than making ultra-left calls to abandon national sentiments altogether, is to call on the people of Wales to boycott the event involving the Royal Welsh regiment on the grounds that it actually celebrates national oppression.
Anyone agreeing with this is warmly invited to visit http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com
International socialism will never be achieved by trampling on the national aspirations of smaller nations or by demeaning their sense of national identity. One of Lenin's first acts after the 1917 revolution was to support the secession of Ukraine – a measure later reversed by Stalin, using a similar justification to Udo Erasmus here.
This doesn't mean that socialists should advocate independence for Wales – far from it. Most Welsh workers recognise that their interests will not be promoted by secession. And the idea promoted by the Fourth International (Pabloism) that petit-bourgeois independence movements would lead the way to socialism proved disastrously wrong.
The most striking thing about this year's St Davids Day events, however, is that they intend to celebrate the supposed glorious work done by Welsh soldiers in the UK army invading two sovereign nations. What socialists should be doing, rather than making ultra-left calls to abandon national sentiments altogether, is to call on the people of Wales to boycott the event involving the Royal Welsh regiment on the grounds that it actually celebrates national oppression.
Anyone agreeing with this is warmly invited to visit http://cardiffpr.wordpress.com
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
There is no direct oppression today between England and Wales at all. There are often inequalities and anomalies between the way England and Wales are broadly treated by the central government, but no national oppression.
However, it could be argued that the oppression of Wales in the past had long-term effects that are still felt today on the Welsh psyche.
However, it could be argued that the oppression of Wales in the past had long-term effects that are still felt today on the Welsh psyche.
Ben Bore
Member
Is that right there's going to representatives of the British Army there? Fuck that. I saw the council was going to be involved this year, whereas it was all organised by volunteers in the past, but no way will I be attending anything involving the army - Udo was right all along
Just a small point about the blog, no one calls Caernarfon 'Caernarvon' any more
penderyn2000
unapologetic socialist
Blog is corrected thanks.
This military parade is shrouded in mystery. The first I knew of it were two temporary hoardings parked at the end of Queen St on match day. The legend was 'they've done their bit', omitting the vital words 'to fuck up Iraq' - not that the rank and file soldiers wanted to go there in the first place, so let's keep the blame firmly in the right place. I'm sure the venue was Cardiff Castle. But there are no references to it in the council free paper, in the media or anywhere else on the web as far as I can see. If you go to the Cardiff castle website the relevant page bears the following message: "It is regretted but the article requested is no longer available either having expired or having been been restricted"
Paranoia about terrorism, or just don't want an anti-war demo?
Surely it's not too late for STW to organise at least a stall?
This military parade is shrouded in mystery. The first I knew of it were two temporary hoardings parked at the end of Queen St on match day. The legend was 'they've done their bit', omitting the vital words 'to fuck up Iraq' - not that the rank and file soldiers wanted to go there in the first place, so let's keep the blame firmly in the right place. I'm sure the venue was Cardiff Castle. But there are no references to it in the council free paper, in the media or anywhere else on the web as far as I can see. If you go to the Cardiff castle website the relevant page bears the following message: "It is regretted but the article requested is no longer available either having expired or having been been restricted"
Paranoia about terrorism, or just don't want an anti-war demo?
Surely it's not too late for STW to organise at least a stall?
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
i think after the one they had down st mary st the other week that was televised and lauded for having 'thousands' of people with the odd one doing a vox pop about 'our boys' they are keen to jump on any bandwagon.
in reality there were a few hundred and not thousand people, with the most, i wager, being families/ex-service people and general old biddies who happened to be on the st at the time.
what bollocks! all over the news as well
THAT is where YOU SHOULD TARGET YOUR RESOURCES udo
in reality there were a few hundred and not thousand people, with the most, i wager, being families/ex-service people and general old biddies who happened to be on the st at the time.
what bollocks! all over the news as well
THAT is where YOU SHOULD TARGET YOUR RESOURCES udo
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
nothing bout the forces on here http://www.marketmailer.co.uk//rwcode/content.asp?SID=8&Section=1857&SiteID=99 
Dic Penderyn
Newport Civic Pride!
It's normal for some kind of military event on St David's day, (often a royal visit to welsh troops) so it wouldn't be out of place. May well be a different event to the parade though.
Ben Bore
Member
Come to think of it , 2 years ago (and possibly last year), in addition to the St Davids Day parade from Mochyn Du to the Museum, there was also a seperate one involving the mayor and the army marching, so if the mayor's involved in this years merged one, then so might the squaddies - that's won't go down too well.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
Well, I try to do my bit, I mean I contacted the Echo following a story from a family whose son was going out to Iraq, to put the parents in contact with Military Families against the War and spoken to many soldiers about these kind of issues.
This thread was a wind-up or provocation, while political nationalism is a dead end and to be challenged, I don't primarily target my resources into activism against it.
I have to say that Penderyn (the trotskyite one) commits the cardinal sin of a socialist of forgetting that the working class has no country, (re-read the 1848 manifesto, comrade!) as the great English democrat and true internationalist (he took part in two revolutions) Tom Paine said: "My country is the world. My religion is the love of all mankind"
He also ignores that I clearly identified the two key nationalisms he mentions. The point is that the Welsh variety doesn't fit in either camp.
Penderyn (while making mostly uncontroversial points) also seems confused, on one hand he argues that we should argue against nationalism but on the other hand says that we mustn't trample on small nations legitimate aspirations. I'm sure he manages to square the circle somewhere but it seems opportunism to me.
Finally we should not make the mistake of the Argentinian 4th Internationalist, Pasodas, who argued that UFOs were proof of the existence of socialism on other planets. His reasoning was that only a socialist planet would be capable of developing the technology to make this possible.
You should be concentrating your resources on the St David's 2 retail complex. Have you read the guff on the hoardings surrounding it? There is a chronoligical list of significant events in Cardiff's history culminating in, of course, the opening of St David's 2. Not the opening of a hospital or some educational establishment but a bunch of new shops. As if progress is measured by how much retail space we have access to. And the "2"'s back to back forming a heart is enough to make anyone puke. I'm disappointed that none of you self-appointed revolutionaries, anarchists and other assorted malcontents have vandalised it, stuck posters over it, or subverted it in some way. After all it's a huge symbol of capitalism and capitalist expansion on your doorstep.
So come on let's be 'aving ya! Go and f*ck it up.
So come on let's be 'aving ya! Go and f*ck it up.
Should we be appointed by someone else?
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
Well, if you would like to organise such subversion PM me. You are correct that the urban regeneration of Russell Goodpay and Rodney Berman is pretty reactionary. On a related subject, I was talking to a DJ comrade of mine who was commenting how the cost and expense of promoting a night has increased since the LibDems took over the council with their war on flypostering, he also made a pointed comment that the boards that the council provided are dominated by the big bands that could afford to advertise on TV rather than local acts. Another axe to grind was the trouble that the Toucan club had getting a license for St Mary's Street and the failure of the council to facilitate culture and music in the city.
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
The military are having their own St. David's Day presence in Cardiff, and are not part of the cultural celebration which is organsied by volunteers.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
Anyway, Brockway, why do you want to stop nice proletarians enjoying their window shopping?
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