If there is a counter-demo it will be Udo on his own.
The gardening stuff and the Stop the War stuff is genuine enough though.
St David's Day - COUNTER DEMO
- Thread starter Udo Erasmus
- Start date
If there is a counter-demo it will be Udo on his own.
The gardening stuff and the Stop the War stuff is genuine enough though.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Perhaps Udo, because you have failed to engage with the question of national/cultural identity(ies) with potential progressive allies, preferring instead to fall back on abstract Marxish platitudes and lazy smears to avoid having to deal with realities that don't fit with your dogma.
Right?
But then you did learn your politics in the SWP, no?
So, any last thoughts on how to engage with cultural/linguistic/national constructs of identity from a progressive point of view...
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
The gardening stuff seems pretty cool tbh. Good work Udo.
Gavin Bl
terrible awful baaad
thanks for the confirmation, osterberg - so it is just about baiting welsh people, even if he doesn't want to admit it to himself.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
I think a generous and broad socialist movement in Wales would present an alternative history of Wales highlighting the rapacious struggle between rich and poor and highlighting that some of the most hardy fighters for our class have come from Wales. In contrast with the nationalist attempts to present Wales as a cosy entity united against the English, we would present a "history from below" that highlighted sharp conflict and the continued aspirations of poor and working people for a better society, we might talk of the Merthyr and Newport Risings, the Children of Rebecca, Little Moscows, and talk about popular education movements like the Plebs League and Central Labour College and people like Noah Ablett and the authors of "The Miners Next Step". Such a movement would highlight Welsh culture not in a provincial, nationalist sense but as a contribution to the international heritage of humanity.
Gardening is important. Plaid have embraced nuclear power and militarisation and would turn Wales into the playground of multinationals and the military, a cultural wasteland that would be dominated by the forces of globalisation. We need to fight to turn Wales into a garden of eden as part of an international struggle
Gardening is important. Plaid have embraced nuclear power and militarisation and would turn Wales into the playground of multinationals and the military, a cultural wasteland that would be dominated by the forces of globalisation. We need to fight to turn Wales into a garden of eden as part of an international struggle
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
Why do you assume that all Welsh people support nationalist parades?
Gavin Bl
terrible awful baaad
Stop squirming Udo - you've been shown for what you are - a latter day Victorian Englishman being terribly reasonable with the natives, and not understanding why they get angrier and angrier. Absolutely text-book.
If this has just been one long troll, then bully for you, I hope you had a lot of fun. But you should bear in mind how much damage you have done for any future announcements you make for worthwhile events.
You're doing it again. Making stuff up and attributing it to me.
I said this: "I'd rather live in an independent, left-wing, multicultural Wales than be permanently disenfranchised under the English Tory jackboot in the colonial construct that is 'Britain'."
You on the other hand want to wipe Wales from the map and presumably live in an English-speaking hippy empire where we all grow our own vegetables. You're just another coloniser.
no - I'm hoping for a triple crown victory over Ireland, but think the French will probs get the 6 nations championship..... thats rained on my parade
That picture of the mass nazi rallies was just a figment of our collective imaginations, right...
Even your ex-SWP comrades are a little embarrassed by this thread - no wonder you're a "little bored".
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
That picture of the mass nazi rallies was just a figment of our collective imaginations, right...
Even your ex-SWP comrades are a little embarrassed by this thread - no wonder you're a "little bored".
Niclas you are so blinded by ideology you can't assimilate a simple rhetorical point. I asked where does flagwaving, nationalist hysteria and patriotism lead?
People may be interested to hear that Ieuan Wyn Jones won't be in Cardiff on the parade, by the way. As you would expect from the leader of the nationalists he will be spending St David's Day on WALL STREETwith the fat cats, capitalist exploiters etc. (Out of interest, Niclas, you are aware that Plaid MPs abstained in the parliamentary vote to introduced the minimum wage?)
No socialist would be seen dead on Wall Street, but given that Plaid is a party whose economic strategy is based on courting foreign multinationals, Plaid's attempts to build links with the US capitalist elite are not unexpected.
People may remember that Niclas was shamed by socialists when Forward Wales adopted the slogan "Putting Wales First". As the radical left commented such a slogan "Put Wales first" could only be interpreted as we need to put Wales (rich and poor) ahead of other countries because we are Welsh.
Having been shamed, Niclas (now in Plaid) has duly amended the slogan to "Putting Welsh workers First" - but now he ties himself in even more knots and revealed himself as a complete national chauvinist. Afterall isn't this much the same as Gordon Brown's and many a trade union bureaucrats rhetoric of putting British workers first and defending British interests first?
What the hell does "Putting Welsh Workers First" mean? Substitute the word "White" for "Welsh" and you see the problem. It's about pitting the interests of one set of workers against another. So we pit Welsh workers against English workers, and the logic of this slogan would mean that Welsh workers have more rights than workers in the third world.
You see that while some nationalists can play a role in anti-capitalist struggles ultimately the logic of nationalism is reactionary.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
So Niclas what do you think about your leader sending press releases about his celebration of St David's Day on Wall Street?
What do you think his purpose is there?
What does this tell you about Plaid?
What do you think his purpose is there?
What does this tell you about Plaid?
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
Could you imagine a Scottish Socialist MSP involved in such antics?
Socialists in Wales know that Wall Street is the street that keeps you and I off Easy Street!
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Not really like for like though, is it?
Heard about this controversial thread and thought I'd put up my two penn'orth.
I seem to remember that part of the reason the Owain Glyndwr and St. David's flags became so popular for example is because when the Millennium stadium first opened people started taking in St. David's and Owain Glyndwr flags to footie matches.
The stewards - probably jumped up little PC fascists like this guy - attempted to ban the flags because they thought they were rascist. This prompted people to start taking the flags in "protest" anyway. Now the flags are everywhere.
I think there's a perverse streak in the Welsh psyche which doesn't like being told what to do. Something which this guy obviously doesnt understand. As a Nationalist myself I'm quite grateful to Udo really - he's doing our cause a big favour!
I seem to remember that part of the reason the Owain Glyndwr and St. David's flags became so popular for example is because when the Millennium stadium first opened people started taking in St. David's and Owain Glyndwr flags to footie matches.
The stewards - probably jumped up little PC fascists like this guy - attempted to ban the flags because they thought they were rascist. This prompted people to start taking the flags in "protest" anyway. Now the flags are everywhere.
I think there's a perverse streak in the Welsh psyche which doesn't like being told what to do. Something which this guy obviously doesnt understand. As a Nationalist myself I'm quite grateful to Udo really - he's doing our cause a big favour!
editor
hiraethified
Personally, I couldn't give a fuck, but I'm sure looking forward to celebrating St Davids Day, like most of the Welsh population.
Did you grow up in Wales, Udo? Do you know what the day actually means to Welsh people or are your personal politics somehow more important?
I always loved it as a kid, all the boys competing to have the biggest leak, the girls in their traditional outfits, and a half day off school.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
Editor are you seriously denying that their is not a large swathe of the Welsh working class, particularly in South Wales, who have a huge antipathy towards nationalism to the point of feeling "colonized"? even in Cardiff you hear people complaining at how a foreign culture to the one they grew up with is being imposed on them by the nationalist middle class in their attempts to impose the 'national project' on everyone.
Once again Editor assumes that all Welsh people support his ideology.
Once again Editor assumes that all Welsh people support his ideology.
Thing is though Udo most people who celebrate St David's day don't vote Plaid and probably don't think of themselves as nationalists. It's a tradition. Back in ye olden days when I was in school we had an eisteddfod in the morning and then had the afternoon off. And that's a council estate school in Cardiff. I've got a school photo of my niece togged out in traditional Welsh costume from last year's St David's day and she goes to school in Ely.
So are you gonna hold this counter-demo or not?
So are you gonna hold this counter-demo or not?
No he didnt, he stated most Welsh people enjoyed celebrating St David's Way, which ime is undeniable true.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
No the counter-demo was just a wind-up post.
That's a relief. There was me thinking you were a prize arsehole.
editor
hiraethified
Learn to read sunshine. My words were, "like most of the Welsh population." And, yes, most do enjoy St David's Day.
And what do you know about Cardiff? Do you live there? Born there? Have you ever been to a St David's Day celebration?
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
Any replies to the earlier points addressed to you?
Oh come on now, I'd take a public holiday for any excuse, st david, george andrew or st saddam
I just don't give a fuck as long as I don't have to go to work. Calling it national sentiment is putting bells on it.
Similar threads
