St David's Day - COUNTER DEMO
- Thread starter Udo Erasmus
- Start date
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
well the reference to sport was a joke.
But we have to ask where this flag waving is leading:
But we have to ask where this flag waving is leading:
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
Why can't you think for yourself and create your own identity? Why disolve your individuality into the collective? If you want to be a sheep for the rest of your life then go ahead . . .
lewislewis said:
Imagine no countries, Lewislewis, I wonder if you can?
Nothing to kill or die for - a brotherhood (and sisterhood) of man (and woman)
Gavin Bl
terrible awful baaad
Udo Erasmus said:
Udo Erasmus said:
Yes thats right, individuality. Ahem.
Udo Erasmus said:
So how far into the 1920s do you think you would have made it, as a 'libertarian marxist', after the 'event of October 1917'.??
I can just see you being put up against a wall, while telling the firing squad that its all an historical necessity and that you quite understand.
And you've started conflating Nazism with 'other-things-you-don't-agree-with' again
Poor show.
Gavin Bl
terrible awful baaad
Definitely, being told how we should feel about ourselves, by English people, would make a refreshing change.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
Yes thats right, individuality. Ahem.
So how far into the 1920s do you think you would have made it, as a 'libertarian marxist', after the 'event of October 1917'.??
I can just see you being put up against a wall, while telling the firing squad that its all an historical necessity and that you quite understand.
And you've started conflating Nazism with 'other-things-you-don't-agree-with' again
Poor show.
Look I make no apology with drawing a link between nationalism and national socialism. You see nationalism divides people, it is akin to communalism, it is akin to sectarianism, it is akin to this whole mindset of superiority.
As to my support for revolution, Russia in 1917 was more democratic than Britain in 2007, though within a year the dream had withered, I remain a supporter of the ideas of democratically controlled workplaces and radical redistribution of weath and power that was spearheaded by working people in the upsurge of October and workers self-management.
On the question of individuality, I follow the philosophy of marx - "the free development of ALL is the condition for the free development of the individual". I believe in community - the question is what kind of community do we need?
One that divides people on racial, ethnic and national lines or one that affirms our commonality and is based on genuine solidarity and struggle for a better world?
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
Definitely, being told how we should feel about ourselves, by English people, would make a refreshing change.
This is the point, I see regular English people as my brothers and sisters and define people by their deed rather than their country, nation or any other crap.
In capitalist societies where human life is shaped by the drive for profits aren't we all told how to think and feel about ourselves by the media, by the church, by the school, by society, by the machine?
Join the St David's Day Parade:
bendeus
Bellend Tagline Generator
I actually know one of the organisers, and a more pleasant, laid-back, non-rabid, non-Pontcanna dwelling chap I'm hard pushed to remember meeting. I think he wants the day to be a celebration of a dwindling but hardy culture, certainly not a nationalist call to arms.
I would add that I can barely recall a more pompous, po-faced original post than the one above.
Would you suggest we spent the day in darkened cellars having earnest meetings about da politiksz, instead?
I would add that I can barely recall a more pompous, po-faced original post than the one above.
Would you suggest we spent the day in darkened cellars having earnest meetings about da politiksz, instead?
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
Udo, what about people defining themselves by their skin colour such as the Black Panthers? Or the Palestinian movements you admire, who unless i'm much mistaken are nationalist in nature? Or the resistance to British colonialism in Ireland who, unless i'm mistaken, were quite sure that they were of Irish nationality?
Do you think they were/are sheep as well?
Do you think they were/are sheep as well?
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
But they like morris dancing...
Which reminds me, I saw a newspaper advert the other day that advertised Morris Dancing as 'part of British culture'. Eugh.
Rubbish. It doesn't have to be about superiority at all. It can be about equality. What about the Indian nationalists who wanted to boot out the British Raj - did they consider themselves superior or did they just want to kick the colonizer out? What about the Polish nationalists who campaigned against being part of a Soviet empire - were they national socialists or did they just feel their country had a right to exist?
You're English aren't you Udo? Listen thanks for coming here and telling us that we have no right to exist as a country. Twonk.
Ben Bore
Member
I'd say he's a British nationalist
British is English - always has been.
I'd rather live in an independent, left-wing, multicultural Wales than be permanently disenfranchised under the English Tory jackboot in the colonial construct that is 'Britain'.
Udo may perceive himself to be some kind of revolutionary but from where I'm standing he's just another Tarquin from England telling us how to run our affairs. He's not the first and I'm sure he won't be the last. Been going on for centuries.
I'd rather live in an independent, left-wing, multicultural Wales than be permanently disenfranchised under the English Tory jackboot in the colonial construct that is 'Britain'.
Udo may perceive himself to be some kind of revolutionary but from where I'm standing he's just another Tarquin from England telling us how to run our affairs. He's not the first and I'm sure he won't be the last. Been going on for centuries.
Yossarian
⏭️
What, he puts class consciousness before nationalism?? Bastard must be English!
Gavin Bl
terrible awful baaad
I understand the point Udo and broadly speaking its a view most of us share - and if Plaid et al were some kind of headcase organisation it would be fair enough.
But as a pretty moderate nationalism in a country which has almost seen its language disappear and has found itself historically on the margins of British life, (not on the Union Jack, an Principality of English Princes, a Tory Minister for Wales ludicrously mouthing 'Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau', as just a few examples of the snubs and as many welsh people see it, insults) seeking to redress some of this is no bad thing, particularly as it is driving the revival of our language.
It doesn't mean that its just national socialism in waiting - and conflating the two is insulting and foolishly provocative.
Bad day at the barricades, Udo?
This is terrible - you regard English people (not workers) as your brothers and sisters... what Branson and all those billionaires? You define people by their deed rather than their relationship to the forces of production.
The Nazi symbolism in a previous post was probably as low as any Kinnockite or Welsh Mirror headline has gone (and that's saying something). It crossed a line. Like all the crap Brit lefties who come to Wales to organise solidarity with the Sandinistas, Chavez, Palestinians, Basques and Irish, they draw the line at any demonstration of national identity in lil ol' Wales. National identity is something that scares the pants off the Brit left, which is why they feel they have to smear it so desperately.
You're no marxist - you're a member of the Anti-Taffy League. Kinnock, Abse, Touhig would be proud of you.
1927
Funnier than he thinks he is.
well the reference to sport was a joke.
But we have to ask where this flag waving is leading:
Fuck me, that looks just like Pontcanna last weekend! Udo I take it all back, you do indeed have your finger on the pulse.
Yossarian
⏭️
Yep, Branson and all those other billionaires was evidently what was meant by 'regular people'.
I guess there's probably a few English people out there who aren't billionaires - but that serves the fuckers right for not cashing in on the fortunes Welsh coal had to offer in the early 20th century!
Gavin Bl
terrible awful baaad
Udo, if you are English - as some of the others have suggested (I don't care either way as it goes) but I would seriously examine your decision to attend this 'counter-demo' (I'm genuinely asking here). Don't you think it will smack of telling the natives what to do? Just a little?
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
or indeed the Zapatista imagery beloved on the blog he pushes...
Ejercito Zapatista de Liberacion Nacional.
Ahem.
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
As much as I have respect for the events of 1917 and excitement at what they represented, isn't the fact that it lasted less than a year the whole point? The things you listed there are noble goals but if they did, in some kind of miracle, happen, then why would we cease to be Welsh?
Welshness is a nationality bred amongst the grassroots, not enforced on us from above. You need to read 'When Was Wales' by Gwyn Alf Williams.
Wales was the first working class nation in the world and that is still reflected in mindsets and attitudes here today. So yes though there will inevitably be bosses and millionaires, the Welsh nation puts workers first. And we get rugby and football too.
I now feel cheated that I thought it was cool when the Respect party was using the slogan 'Another Wales is Possible', that one of their leading cadres now feels Wales shouldn't exist.
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
some excellent posts above. ffs udo, carry on down this road and it WILL affect your credibility and negate your future press releases and campaigns here in Cardiff.
wrong target and kind of shows you up as a wadical wevowutionary trying to take over da Wales. "your" day will not come, however hard you push it and the use of CAPS LOCK.
wrong target and kind of shows you up as a wadical wevowutionary trying to take over da Wales. "your" day will not come, however hard you push it and the use of CAPS LOCK.
Gavin Bl
terrible awful baaad
Udo, you should also take a look at the growth of 'Russianism' in the early soviet union - despite the initial granting of freedoms to outlying republics. It rapidly became Russia is best - because it was the seat of the revolution - and languages and practices of Ukrainians and other minorities were looked down on by many Bolsheviks - despite a formal commitment to equality.
If I remember rightly Tony Cliff writes about this in his biog of Lenin - and mentions an encounter between two Ukranian bolsheviks - one addresses the other in their native tongue, the second replies
"Speak to me in a proper language" (i.e. Russian)
Many welsh people would see this as a pretty telling encounter - with parallels to this thread.
If I remember rightly Tony Cliff writes about this in his biog of Lenin - and mentions an encounter between two Ukranian bolsheviks - one addresses the other in their native tongue, the second replies
"Speak to me in a proper language" (i.e. Russian)
Many welsh people would see this as a pretty telling encounter - with parallels to this thread.
As a not very leading cadre in Respect I have no problem with Welsh people enjoying St. David's Day . Udo isn't our boss you know
.This counter-demo only exists inside his head . He's trying to wind you all up .
Gavin Bl
terrible awful baaad
As a not very leading cadre in Respect I have no problem with Welsh people enjoying St. David's Day . Udo isn't our boss you know
This counter-demo only exists inside his head . He's trying to wind you all up .
Can't you have him shot?
Ben Bore
Member
Hope I don't get a row for push my blog, but George Galloway made his (and probably Respect's) views about minority languages and cultures clear recently in his column in the Daily Record:
George Galloway shows his Respect
George Galloway shows his Respect
Gavin Bl
terrible awful baaad
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