Sheffield university occupied for gaza
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- Start date
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
Well they wouldn't know if they haven't tried them!
On a more mundane note, has term ended at Sheffield? If not, how on earth do the students find time to organise and conduct an occupation? A slow week for me at uni was writing a 2,500+ word essay and reading enough to talk about it for an hour with an expert in the field. The only place I had time to occupy was a library!
Perhaps SU can make them repeat the year due to the work they've missed? Far more effective than the riot squad.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
They have tried them, read their statement.
I'm a student there. Everyone who I've spoken to thinks you're just a bunch of annoying clueless little piss-ants. While you were planning all this didn't one of you stop and say "hang on! If we're going to spend this much time and effort in protesting we should probably make sure we aim our protest at the right people!"? You've just managed to alienate your fellow students, who now think you're a bunch of muppets.
If you'd been out on the concourse collecting signatures I'd probably have signed, now I don't give a flying fuck what your cause is.
If you'd been out on the concourse collecting signatures I'd probably have signed, now I don't give a flying fuck what your cause is.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
True, they said the university management failed "to continue in negotiations on this urgent matter", but they haven't listed all the ways short of occupying lecture theatres they've tried to persuade them to change their minds. Also, we don't know anything about how these "negotiations" were conducted, or who said what. Why haven't they got their own student union on side, for one thing?
Ultimately I'm not in favour of students occupying the lecture theatres in anything but a learning capacity. They can occupy the bar. Sheffield University has a fine food/drink complex.
FYI, nobody cares if something annoys students.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
because if sheffield uni is anything like reading it will be almost impossible to the get the student union on side in anything REMOTELY political
we had student elections last week and literally all the candidates' manifestos were exactly the same ...
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
some tories/tory MPs spoke at the parliamentary lobby for palestine in november and even have been active members of the PSC, are they propagandists for a fascist group zachor?
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
So the occupiers could stand for election themselves.
We suport The Occupation Not The Middle Class
Now in its, fourth day, and it seems a weekend is looming, here at http://underclassrising.net we find ourself in a strange position due to fact of those involved. The Alliance for workers liberty those who created this uproar http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/sheffield/2009/01/418996.html are very much the involved, and while there are climes of democracy and it all been done on consensus, we all know to well from Matilda http://www.matilda.aktivix.org/ about how the dominant can simply force there view upon the rest of the group and those involved.
We have said it time again we have no time for The Middle Class, also involved are The Socialist Workers Party The Anarchist Federation, the list goes on, we do not sport the politics of the groups involved, neither do we support The Palestine Soldarty Campaign, http://www.palestinecampaign.org we do however understand that such an occupation raises the issue of Palestine, also raise wider issue of how all university are complicit with there involvement with The Israeli State, in a week where
along with the continued occupation of Gaza and we need only read today Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/19/israeli-troops-gaza-shootings-civilians
This is why we support this occupation, and we would argue the aims and objectives of those involved are weak. For updates on The Occupation of Sheffield goto
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/sheffield/2009/03/424446.html
Hallam Occupation
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/sheffield/2009/01/420685.html
- The occupiers can be contacted by emailing
sheffieldoccupation@googlemail.com
- The website of the occupation is
http://www.sheffoccupied.blogspot.com
- Student occupations have varied in length; some, such as Manchester,
have lasted for weeks whereas others, such as Bradford, have lasted only 24
hours.
- Details of other student occupations can be found by visiting
http://www.occupations.org.uk
Now in its, fourth day, and it seems a weekend is looming, here at http://underclassrising.net we find ourself in a strange position due to fact of those involved. The Alliance for workers liberty those who created this uproar http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/sheffield/2009/01/418996.html are very much the involved, and while there are climes of democracy and it all been done on consensus, we all know to well from Matilda http://www.matilda.aktivix.org/ about how the dominant can simply force there view upon the rest of the group and those involved.
We have said it time again we have no time for The Middle Class, also involved are The Socialist Workers Party The Anarchist Federation, the list goes on, we do not sport the politics of the groups involved, neither do we support The Palestine Soldarty Campaign, http://www.palestinecampaign.org we do however understand that such an occupation raises the issue of Palestine, also raise wider issue of how all university are complicit with there involvement with The Israeli State, in a week where
along with the continued occupation of Gaza and we need only read today Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/19/israeli-troops-gaza-shootings-civilians
This is why we support this occupation, and we would argue the aims and objectives of those involved are weak. For updates on The Occupation of Sheffield goto
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/sheffield/2009/03/424446.html
Hallam Occupation
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/sheffield/2009/01/420685.html
- The occupiers can be contacted by emailing
sheffieldoccupation@googlemail.com
- The website of the occupation is
http://www.sheffoccupied.blogspot.com
- Student occupations have varied in length; some, such as Manchester,
have lasted for weeks whereas others, such as Bradford, have lasted only 24
hours.
- Details of other student occupations can be found by visiting
http://www.occupations.org.uk
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
doesnt work like that though. student politics (at least at my uni) is completely panic stricken at the thought o fanything "political" they might not even be allwoed to run
this is simply rubbish .. i am no fan of hamas which i have down as near fascist BUT
-hamas won the election (fairly) in both WB and Gaza ..
-hamas won the election becuase palestinians had lost faith in the PLO ..
-they had lost faith in the PLO cos the Israeli govt has consistented ratted on agreements with the PLO ..
to blame the palestinians for voting for hamas is more an endictment of israeli policy than of palestinian political values ..
Na The AWL was enough for me:
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
The "occupation" has moved to the Jessop West building.
According to the "occupiers", "the development contains little or no teaching space, and as such is of little use to University of Sheffield students and/or teaching staff".
According to the website for the various Jessop developments: "Jessop West houses the Department of History, the School of English Literature, Language and Linguistics and the School of Modern Languages and Linguistics, in addition to the new University Visitor Centre and an ACS Café."
The occupiers omit to mention said departments, referring only to an exhibition centre. Are departments "of little use" to students and staff?
According to the "occupiers", "the development contains little or no teaching space, and as such is of little use to University of Sheffield students and/or teaching staff".
According to the website for the various Jessop developments: "Jessop West houses the Department of History, the School of English Literature, Language and Linguistics and the School of Modern Languages and Linguistics, in addition to the new University Visitor Centre and an ACS Café."
The occupiers omit to mention said departments, referring only to an exhibition centre. Are departments "of little use" to students and staff?
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
Perhaps there's more to this building than you have any hope of understanding without being there?
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Good god what a load of absolute toss. Just been reading this http://www.shef.ac.uk/union/student...eld-university-occupied-for-gaza-t1208.0.html and it appears most people think that the people doing this occupation are a bunch of wankers, and I agree. They've disrupted access for disabled students (yeah way to go people) and have disrupted lectures all round. If I was a student there I would be mightily pissed off if my learning was disrupted.
On this point of giving scholarships willy nilly to Palestinians, without any ideas on how to fund it, since when was it Sheffield university's responsibility to provide this? who says? What about people in this country, who have to get into thousands of pounds worth of debt to get an education? where's their scholarship? I wonder how many of these people doing this occupation have help from their parents to study? i'd wager that quite a number of them do. I, and many others, have to put themselves through university. I'm all for scholarships and ending the occupation of Gaza but get a grip for fucks sake. In fact if these idiots bothered to do their research they would find quite a number of charities who provide pretty hefty grants for people from developing countries wishing to study in the U.K.
On this point of giving scholarships willy nilly to Palestinians, without any ideas on how to fund it, since when was it Sheffield university's responsibility to provide this? who says? What about people in this country, who have to get into thousands of pounds worth of debt to get an education? where's their scholarship? I wonder how many of these people doing this occupation have help from their parents to study? i'd wager that quite a number of them do. I, and many others, have to put themselves through university. I'm all for scholarships and ending the occupation of Gaza but get a grip for fucks sake. In fact if these idiots bothered to do their research they would find quite a number of charities who provide pretty hefty grants for people from developing countries wishing to study in the U.K.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
I'm sure there is, which is why it would help if the "occupiers" mentioned the departments housed therein, and explained why their actions don't disrupt them.
King Biscuit Time
Well-Known Member
They should occupy the Paternoster Lifts in the Arts Tower. The university would soon cave in when Art Lecturers are forced to climb 21 stories of stairs.
WANKER:
Today a group of students representing the Islamic circle, Palestine Society and the Black Students Committee meet with pro-vice chancellor Paul White in the student’s union. The meeting was held after students from Sheffield University have occupied university buildings for more than a week. The fact that the Occupiers were not represented is very unfortunate, and furthermore, undermines the strength of the movement for an acceptable university policy on Palestine. It is clear that these talks would not have taken place were it not for the occupation, given that the university ignored our previous requests for a meeting and that demands have not been met at any university where an occupation has not taken place.
The fact that the occupation was not represented also meant that demands could not be discussed in the context of an ongoing occupation, and that the bargaining chip was effectively taken off the table. The so called “roundtable discussions” were an opportunity for the university to show itself in a good light, seemingly willing to discuss issues that they blankly ignored a week ago.
The pro vice chancellor did, on behalf of the university promise to bring the concerns raised in the discussion back to the Vice chancellor and open up for talks on several of the demands. He promised to make the case to the VC that the university should align itself with the already existing Union policy on Palestine, and state that the university deplores any aggression against educational institutions. The issue of scholarships will also be raised together with the possibility of the university funding the transport cost of sending equipment such as old books and computer to the occupied territories.
The University is currently entering into a program of corporate social responsibility, and the group responsible for this is having their first meeting tomorrow. Paul White stated that he would try to get the issue of the university twinning with the Islamic University of Gaza on the Agenda.
Due to pro-vice chancellor White’s lack of knowledge around the issue of the arms trade this particular demand could not be addressed properly. However he was notified of the fact that the groups in the meeting could not accept his grounds for not making political statements, when taking the decision to work with arms companies is of a highly political nature.
The Occupiers would like to make it clear that we welcome the commitments to address the issues we have raised. However, if the promises made are empty more direct action will be taken.
http://sheffoccupied.blogspot.com/
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/sheffield/2009/03/425030.html
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
So i'm a wanker for simply not agreeing with you? nice
Let's take your demands point by point shall we?
1. Issue a statement condemning the disproportionate actions of the
Israeli state against the Palestinian people.
The Union could do this themselves without "occupation" being required. Even if Sheffield uni do this i'm sure the Israeli government won't be quaking in their boots
2. Create a special programme of five Palestinian scholarships and waive
all fees for current students from the occupied territories.
So waive all fees from people from occupied territories but not all fees for people in this country that are bright enough to attend university but can't afford it?
Why only Gaza'a occupied territories? there are plenty of occupied territories in this world with potential students in them....oh wait those causes aren't fashionable enough are they?
Again I restate, why not create a special programe for poor students in this country who can't afford it? and again I restate, if you muppets done your research you'd find there are charities who provide grants for students from lots of developing countries and not just Gaza.
3. Enter into an academic partnership with the University of Gaza.
No problems with this but did it really need "occupation" to do this? the university of Gaza is gonna be twinned with every uni on the planet at this rate!
4. Donate old books, computers and other relevant equipment to the
University of Gaza, and pay for the transport of these materials.
You could've organised this yourselves and done a fund raiser. You would've got far more support from both your university and its students had you gone about it another way.
5. Publicise the Disasters Emergency Committee (DEC) appeal on Sheffield
University notice boards, website and via email.
Do it yaself! how hard is to stick a few notices up and send a few emails out?
6. Initiate a programme in partnership with students of divestment and
ending links with the arms trade.
This can be applied to any huge corporation on the planet. I bet your student loans are invested in arms somewhere along the line.
7. Allow those studying medicine to carry out their electives in the
occupied territories of Palestine.
Did they explicitly say no you can't do this? do those studying medicine even wanna go to Palestine?
8. Commemorate the United Nations Palestine Solidarity Day on November
29th.
Along with every other solidarity day, disease day, no smoking day, national sodomy of aliens day etc. Good god if you commemorated every day there'd be no time left for study...remember that? study? what you're supposed to do at university?
9. Echo the Occupation's statement of support with Israeli students who
have been imprisoned for refusing to serve in the IDF.
Start a society
We believe our university should be run democratically from below by
students and staff, and not in the interests of corporate profiteering.
Because of this belief, we express our solidarity with university workers
and demand:
10.That they face no cuts in jobs, wages or conditions.
Has this actually been threatened?
We further demand:
11. That participants in, or supporters of, the occupation face no
repercussions.
You deserve all that and more IMO. For wasting people's time and disrupting other people's learning.
Here's an idea, why not get on with your degree so you can graduate, get a job and fight this the proper way? instead of sitting on your arse in a lecture hall with a few crappy banners.
In all honesty I don't have a problem with most of your demands but your methods suck.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
can't be arsed to go thru all your points to be honest, but this is the most important demand of the occupation, imo, so I'll just come back on this one.
You're wrong that there are 'plenty' occupied territories, there are actually very few indeed (in a legal sense Iraq is not 'occupied' for instance, whether Darfur or even Tibet legally count is debatable). It has nothing to do with 'fashion'.
Furthermore the central point is how the Israeli state has destroyed access to further education for Palestinian students, they have closed their universities and refuse them access to Israel's, so there is a very direct connection.
Furthermore we are talking about 5 students, or about 20k pa, not a vast amount for a place like Sheffield uni. As to offering cheap places to brit students, well yes they should, but the two hardly stand in opposition to each other. A victory here could make a campaign for such fee waiving more likely.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
Is "attack the position, not the person" a foreign concept to you?
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Well thank you for not being abusive, beboid.
Legally occupied or not the point remains that there are still plenty of countries in this world containing people who have had their lives ruined by war and yet Gaza is always the sacred cow. I find it totally abhorrent what Israel are doing to the Palestinians, most people do. I also find it totally abhorrent what's been done to Iraqis, many Africans, the list goes on and on.
These occupiers only talk about how bad higher education is in Gaza, what about the normal education? where they're taught to hate the west and Israel, being taught to hate has no place in any school. What about the millions of kids who don't even go to school in the first place cause they are forced to work?
I really don't disagree with what these people are saying but ffs there's far more bigger pieces of this rancid pie that need addressing and they all connect. It's not as iff Sheffield uni can really do anything about the policies of Israel. It also fascinates me how people are always more than willing to flap their arms around about injustices in other countries but never injustices in our own country, we've hardly seen any mass protests about injustices in the UK since the 80s.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
And here's the rub. Occupying lecture theatres gives the illusion of influence, but nothing more. It's a bizarre combination of over-inflated self-importance and impotence.
Gaza is a fashionable cause, bound up with cultural issues that go back millennia. There are issues closer to home that students are better able to understand and address. But then campaigning against foreign atrocities from the safety of your own country has always been an easy route to righteousness.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
you're not normally this dim. It has been pointed out repeatedly that there are explicit ties between the university and the arms trade, that this occupation has (or rather had, its finished now I believe) clear, limited and achievable aims and that such campaigns have been a part of student activity ever saince there have been students. Alongside other activity that more directly affects and benefits students.
Your bleating about 'fashion' and 'righteousness' is just a way of making you feel superior, and a way to dismiss people you disagree with. Or, to put it more simply, because you're a cunt.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
Mr Pot, doff to Mr Kettle.you're not normally this dim.
[snip]
Or, to put it more simply, because you're a cunt.
Ad hominem, argument won by default, etc etc. Thanks for saying me the trouble of typing a reply.
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