Scottish independence - as an Englishman, am I "wrong" not to give a crap?

[ViolentPanda]

They all wear silly hats though

Think how many bears died just so that Guards could look like total fucking knobbers!

 

[JTG]

Think how many bears died just so that Guards could look like total fucking knobbers!

They're made of cat now, damn cuts

 

[DotCommunist]

they should bring back the humble shako IMO. It may look like an overgrown fez but there is a certain panache to it

 

[ViolentPanda]

they should bring back the humble shako IMO. It may look like an overgrown fez but there is a certain panache to it

Wearing a steaming turd on their heads would have more panache than a bearskin!

 

[William of Walworth]

(**but what about the Scots based in England, or Wales, who seem not to be entitled to any vote in this fight? Might those Scots, and I speculate a bit here, be a little bit more 'No' leaning I wonder? Especially if they, like most Scots, hate the Tories? )

Of course they're not entitled, just like you can't vote in south London any more

Wouldn't argue anything different.
Was only suggesting/speculating that some Scots down here who don't have the vote might (?) not be quite so keen on 'Yes'. For the same pragmatic reasons that anti-Tory English and Welsh people might have reservations ....

 

[free spirit]

It's a bit different to council elections when it potentially impacts on the passport you'll be allowed to carry.

 

[weltweit]

Everything to play for:

Scottish independence: Union support at 53% - poll

The latest study by polling firm YouGov found 53 per cent of those surveyed wanted Scotland to continue as part of the UK.

Meanwhile 35 per cent of people questioned said that Scotland should be an independent country, according to the research for the Scottish Sun newspaper.

More than one in 10 voters (12 per cent) were undecided about how to vote in the September 18 referendum.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...dependence-union-support-at-53-poll-1-3324773

 

[Sue]

Wouldn't argue anything different.
Was only suggesting/speculating that some Scots down here who don't have the vote might (?) not be quite so keen on 'Yes'. For the same pragmatic reasons that anti-Tory English and Welsh people might have reservations ....

I'm Scottish and live in London. I'd say most of the Scots I know down here are pretty strongly pro independence.

Eta Actually, I don't know any who're against it -- all are either pro or undecided at the moment.

 

[JTG]

Yep all the Scots I know are pro, undecided or ambivalent. No strong 'nos' at all.

Includes the Scots I know in Scotland and the ones I house share with in Bristol

 

[brogdale]

Everything to play for:

Scottish independence: Union support at 53% - poll

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...dependence-union-support-at-53-poll-1-3324773

The biggest driver for the 'Yes' campaign would be a resurgence in UK tory polling numbers; the threat of another tory administration would almost certainly push large numbers of urban 'don't knows' into the Yes camp.

 

[brogdale]

With hindsight, this Herald piece makes for interesting reading....

Cameron's plea to Putin: help me stop Salmond
Sunday 12 January 2014

DAVID Cameron's Government wants the backing of Russian President Vladimir Putin in the battle against Scottish independence, the former USSR's leading news agency has reported.

Itar-Tass, citing a source in the Conservative Prime Minister's office, said Britain was "extremely interested" in referendum support from Russia, which this year holds the presidency of the influential G8 group of rich industrial nations. The state-owned agency....said the Cameron aide had warned Scottish independence could "send shockwaves across the whole of Europe".

For the first time since devolution an Edinburgh administration is pursuing a foreign policy that is at odds with the interests of the British state. The Tass report..... reads: "Great Britain is extremely interested in the support of Russia, as holder of the G8 presidency, in two vital areas in 2014: the Afghan pull-out and the Scottish independence referendum."

The Cameron Government insider then, according to the report, added...."We believe that the G8 could become one of the main political platforms where London will find backing."

The journalist added that although the referendum might "look like a UK domestic matter", it had, according to his UK Government source, the potential to "send shockwaves across the whole of Europe". David Cameron is understood to have recently tried to repair his relationship with Putin, especially with the Russians set to chair a summit of G8 and EU leaders in the Black Sea resort of Sochi this June.

 

[geminisnake]

I don't quite get asking Russia to help tbh. Scotland has very good relations with Russia/the former CCCP, England does not have such good relations.

 

[brogdale]

I don't quite get asking Russia to help tbh. Scotland has very good relations with Russia/the former CCCP, England does not have such good relations.

England?

 

[butchersapron]

Eh?

 

[frogwoman]

With hindsight, this Herald piece makes for interesting reading....

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I don't quite get asking Russia to help tbh. Scotland has very good relations with Russia/the former CCCP, England does not have such good relations.

Are you mad?

 

[William of Walworth]

About to respond to a couple of points, but first I just want to say that I've only now realised how Loch Ness-mega the main 'Would you vote for Independence' thread on the Scotland forum is -- 57 pages long now

So despite earlier best intentions I'm not sure when/if I'm ever going to have time to do more than lightly skim it. For now I'll have to stick to this one.

Anyway :

(**but what about the Scots based in England, or Wales, who seem not to be entitled to any vote in this fight? Might those Scots, and I speculate a bit here, be a little bit more 'No' leaning I wonder? Especially if they, like most Scots, hate the Tories? )

Of course they're not entitled, just like you can't vote in south London any more

Wouldn't argue anything different.
Was only suggesting/speculating that some Scots down here who don't have the vote might (?) not be quite so keen on 'Yes'. For the same pragmatic reasons that anti-Tory English and Welsh people might have reservations ....

[Bold now added]

I'm Scottish and live in London. I'd say most of the Scots I know down here are pretty strongly pro independence.

Eta Actually, I don't know any who're against it -- all are either pro or undecided at the moment.

Yep all the Scots I know are pro, undecided or ambivalent. No strong 'nos' at all.

Includes the Scots I know in Scotland and the ones I house share with in Bristol

I think I probably need to clarify my earlier point a bit here. I don't doubt what Sue and JTG are saying, I don't doubt either of you when you say that most/all Scots you know down here (and that's the only category of Scots I meant btw!) incline towards independence, or indeed fully support it.

But I deliberately used the word 'pragmatic' (and yes I was speculating anyway as I said, because I currently know almost no Scots IRL myself, and only a few on here).

Lots of people favour independence in principle (and I agree with them myself fwiw).

But they might, outside Scotland, become somewhat more conflicted in pragmatic terms when they think about the Tory-favouring implications for a Scotlandless rump-UK electorally.

And to to those who keep insisting Scottish independence won't make any difference either way to UK-wide/UKwide elections because of past GE results, well I can only repeat my scepticism about future elections. Seems utterly counterintuitive to me to ignore or dismiss the likely effect (in terms of boosting the Tories) of removing 70-odd Scottish seats, which currently number only one Tory ...

Perhaps those exiled Scots favouring independence will be in a position to move back after the referendum. Lucky them!

More constructively :

John Harris's article on Scottish independence in today's Graun is quite interesting

That old West Lothian question ...

 

[gosub]

good article

oh and in response to the OP

 

[weltweit]

What are the implications for England, Wales and Northern Ireland if Scotland does vote yes?

 

[danny la rouge]

What are the implications for England, Wales and Northern Ireland if Scotland does vote yes?

Hopefully it will strike fear into the "hearts" of the neoliberal elite, who will realise concessions will need to be made on the Welfare State and so on in the rUK too. I hope it has a real practical effect on working people's lives.

 

[weltweit]

Hopefully it will strike fear into the "hearts" of the neoliberal elite, who will realise concessions will need to be made on the Welfare State and so on in the rUK too. I hope it has a real practical effect on working people's lives.

Perhaps there will be calls for a parliament for the English?

And I suppose the Nuclear Subs will go to an English port city somewhere.

Perhaps there will be greater demand for fracking as North Sea Oil may become more expensive for the southerners.

And the military will have to reorganise "again" as formerly Scottish forces will likely be closed and anyhow will not be available to Westminster any more.

I wonder if there will be any immigration control for English, Welsh or Northern Irish people working in Scotland?

 

[weltweit]

Parts of the contracts to build the two Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers are destined for Scotland.
Will that continue if Scotland votes yes?

 

[danny la rouge]

I wonder if there will be any immigration control for English, Welsh or Northern Irish people working in Scotland?

No, there won't. And anyone resident in Scotland at the time of independence will have Scottish citizenship if they want it.

 

[danny la rouge]

Perhaps there will be calls for a parliament for the English?

After Scottish independence? Will that be necessary?

 

[weltweit]

No, there won't. And anyone resident in Scotland at the time of independence will have Scottish citizenship if they want it.

What about if after independence I, as a British person, get an oil job in Aberdeen, will I be eligible for Scottishness?

 

[danny la rouge]

Parts of the contracts to build the two Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers are destined for Scotland.
Will that continue if Scotland votes yes?

That depends on the real reason the contracts were awarded.

Many states buy arms from companies in other territories.

 

[weltweit]

What about if after independence I, as a British person, get an oil job in Aberdeen, will I be eligible for Scottishness?

Scratch that, Salmond wants to remain in the EU so there is my answer at least in part..

 

[danny la rouge]

Scratch that, Salmond wants to remain in the EU so there is my answer at least in part..

Your full answer, should you want it, is in the White Paper.

 

[danny la rouge]

What about if after independence I, as a British person, get an oil job in Aberdeen, will I be eligible for Scottishness?

Yes.

 

[Quartz]

Scratch that, Salmond wants to remain in the EU so there is my answer at least in part..

The rUK will likely veto Scottish membership of the EU.