Scottish independence - as an Englishman, am I "wrong" not to give a crap?

[geminisnake]

UKIP are clearly an English party and for some voters a vote for UKIP represents that,

I fecked up the quote but
It should be EIP then

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm curious why that assertion should result in such a hostile reaction littlebabyjesus

This deserves an answer.

First, I was at work, so short answers bashed out in a couple of seconds were in order. That doesn't lend itself to nuance.

Second, I don't like seeing people retreating into national stereotyping and generalising, and discussion of such things in terms of a nationalist 'us' and 'you'. 'The Scots' are this; 'the English' are that. Not only is such stereotyping invariably well off the mark, it is counter-productive and divisive.

 

[danny la rouge]

One of the many problems here comes from taking 1/10 of a place and comparing it to the other 9/10s. It can be very misleading as you're not really comparing like with like. Also, Scotland has about half the number of foreign-born residents than the rest of the UK - 7% compared to 13%.

And that survey even on its own gives a complicated picture - 45% wanting Scotland to have stricter immigration rules than the UK, for instance, is a pretty high figure.

You could ask Scott Blinder if he took that into account. ( scott.blinder@compas.ox.ac.uk or migrationobservatory@compas.ox.ac.uk ). They also have a Twitter thing: @MigObs

There's a bit on methodology here: http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/reports/appendix-b-methodology

 

[8ball]

From the general mainstream media it looks like things are taking a bit of a 'yeswards' turn - is that right or is it just more Westminster-centric twaddle?

 

[brogdale]

From the general mainstream media it looks like things are taking a bit of a 'yeswards' turn - is that right or is it just more Westminster-centric twaddle?

Certainly the case for the jocks that I rang trying to persuade them to remain English.

 

[weepiper]

From the general mainstream media it looks like things are taking a bit of a 'yeswards' turn - is that right or is it just more Westminster-centric twaddle?

I don't know. It feels like that from here, from people I've been talking to at work/on social media etc noticeably so since Cameron's speech but I don't know how representative my friends are.

 

[8ball]

Certainly the case for the jocks that I rang trying to persuade them to remain English.

I tried on this thread. Deathly silence.

 

[8ball]

I don't know. It feels like that from here, from people I've been talking to at work/on social media etc noticeably so since Cameron's speech but I don't know how representative my friends are.

Yeah, hard to tell how representative these things are but I'm sure Disco Dave's efforts have been heartily welcomed by the 'Yes' camp.

 

[catinthehat]

http://noscotland.net/#pd_a_6300445
Poll on the No's page with 90% vote for Yes.

 

[brogdale]

http://noscotland.net/#pd_a_6300445
Poll on the No's page with 90% vote for Yes.

Poll fail!

The blog name sounds as though it would be more appropriate for an English nationalist one; "No Scotland"

 

[ddraig]

that was a bit funny

 

[danny la rouge]

Yeah, hard to tell how representative these things are but I'm sure Disco Dave's efforts have been heartily welcomed by the 'Yes' camp.

It seems so obviously counterproductive to many people that I've heard at least twice independently since Friday the theory that Cameron's actual intention was to drive people into the Yes camp. The theory goes that the Tories want to increase their chances of a majority at Westminster but have to be seen to be trying to save the Union. (It's like the Father Ted Eurovision episode. Cameron's speech is the equivalent of My Lovely Horse, original non-plagiarised version).

 

[gosub]

It seems so obviously counterproductive to many people that I've heard at least twice independently since Friday the theory that Cameron's actual intention was to drive people into the Yes camp. The theory goes that the Tories want to increase their chances of a majority at Westminster but have to be seen to be trying to save the Union. (It's like the Father Ted Eurovision episode. Cameron's speech is the equivalent of My Lovely Horse, original non-plagiarised version).

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It seems so obviously counterproductive to many people that I've heard at least twice independently since Friday the theory that Cameron's actual intention was to drive people into the Yes camp. The theory goes that the Tories want to increase their chances of a majority at Westminster but have to be seen to be trying to save the Union. (It's like the Father Ted Eurovision episode. Cameron's speech is the equivalent of My Lovely Horse, original non-plagiarised version).

It does sound like that. However, I think it's entirely possible (and probable) that Cameron is in fact so blissfully un-self-aware, and confident of his own charm, that he will believe that he is helping. In your analogy, he is Ted (or indeed Dougal), not the cynical eurovision host.

 

[DotCommunist]

that vast privilege was just resting in his class.

 

[Idris2002]

that vast privilege was just resting in his class.

Kicking Mrs. Thatcher up the arse.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

It does sound like that. However, I think it's entirely possible (and probable) that Cameron is in fact so blissfully un-self-aware, and confident of his own charm, that he will believe that he is helping. In your analogy, he is Ted (or indeed Dougal), not the cynical eurovision host.

Didn't he, or one of the senior Tories, actually say they were a hindrance a few weeks ago?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

that vast privilege was just resting in his class.

 

[danny la rouge]

It does sound like that. However, I think it's entirely possible (and probable) that Cameron is in fact so blissfully un-self-aware, and confident of his own charm, that he will believe that he is helping. In your analogy, he is Ted (or indeed Dougal), not the cynical eurovision host.

This is the thing, though. They don't seem to be self-unaware. I happen to think he does think he's helping. But it's hard to reconcile the two, which is why people leap for the conspiracy theory.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'm not a fan of Limmy, but that was amusing.

Limmy, keep on producing your stuff.

 

[danny la rouge]

The My Lovely Horse Speech was "co-hosted" by Glasgow Caledonian University. In London.

http://derekbateman1.wordpress.com/2014/02/08/scottish-university-joins-no-campaign/

 

[mwgdrwg]

Bowie cares! The twat. Still fucking love him though.

 

[geminisnake]

Strangely enough I've gone right off Bowie. The man doesn't even live in the UK, do fuck off back to the US luv.

 

[DotCommunist]

I'm just waiting for Bono to chip in with his unwanted two pennies worth of opinion

 

[danny la rouge]

Strangely enough I've gone right off Bowie. The man doesn't even live in the UK, do fuck off back to the US luv.

The Man Who Fell To Perth.

 

[danny la rouge]

Bowie cares! The twat. Still fucking love him though.

Ziggy play-ay-ed Stranraer - aer - aer.

 

[butchersapron]

Stirling City

 

[butchersapron]

Young Aberdonians

 

[DotCommunist]

oh no, not me, I never lost control. Yer face, to face, with the man who sold the wirld

 

[danny la rouge]

Lust for Fife.