Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i only wish i could say the same
Russia prepares for nuclear war with mass evacuation exercise
- Thread starter squirrelp
- Start date
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Just who do you think you are kidding?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
this time next year rodski, there'll be no millionaires
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Well, not outside the gulag anyway
Fez909
toilet expert
Gulag Millionaire quite a good band name. Or film name, I guess.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yeh, after ruddy yurts' song of that title, off his 1978 album 'songs of taiga and ice'
Libertad existentialist
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Yes, though interestingly, after the Soviet authorities started getting a bit sniffy about the reference, he did attempt to claim that it was a mistranscription of the words "Gwlad Millionaire" - supposedly about a wealthy Welshman ("gwlad" being Welsh for "land" or "country").
Nobody was particularly convinced, though Ruddy was usually humoured when he mentioned it. "Gulag Millionaire", meanwhile, was something of a samizdat hit behind the Iron Curtain.
seventh bullet
sovietwave
Magnitizdat.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
Nowadays I can't imagine naval power being the biggest threat we would face from a major player like Russia. Naval task forces are still very useful for campaigns against small enemies at far away places of course, but if war ever broke out between Russia and Britain, the respective naval surface fleets of both nations would be the least of our respective worries next to ballistic and cruise missiles and air power, all of which being within range from land positions.
coley
Well-Known Member
Thought it was a pretty good stab at taking the piss out of the DM, but I could be missing something, the eve of WW3 or some other inconsequential event.
coley
Well-Known Member
The European defence force will see off those evil ruskies,just you watch!
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
The finish line
mauvais
on reddit or something
Putting global nuclear war aside, naval power is a crucial element of modern expeditionary warfare - the contemporary USN exists primarily so that the US can wage war anywhere in the world. It's more than just a nice boost to capability.
Syria is Russia's first such expedition since the fall of the Soviet Union, and it highlights a lack of capability - the state of their carrier, dropping dumb bombs from aircraft, getting shot down etcetera. I think you can extrapolate those problems and more across the entire Russian military. What we're seeing in motion is the functioning bit.
So yes they could still blow up the planet, but their ability to wage conventional war looks more than a bit shonky, for now at least.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I did lol about them keeping a tug handy in case the thing breaks down but on the other hand a floating runway is still a floating runway so not entirely useless.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yeh cos no one ever shoots down UK or us planes and anyone who says the Iraqis or yugoslavians did is a liar I suppose. Not to mention they seem to be able to hit targets when they want eg hospitals. Afaics the Americans have hit more unintended targets recently than the Russians.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
The Russian navy is ..by far..the lowest man on the totem pole when it comes to the allocation of military resources . And it often shows . Until recently ...and its allies being attacked...the Russians placed a very low priority on that type of force projection . Their priority has been repelling an invader . It'd be very foolish to
extrapolate a wider scenario regarding the overall state of the Russian military by looking at the long neglected , ugly step child . Even at that though the Russian surface fleet is adequately equipped with the means to defend itself . Attacking it conventionally would take some doing . And entail serious losses .
And it's ability to attack targets in Syria from a major distance away ..the Caspian Sea..came as a real surprise to western military planners .
It also helps too that they a ) actually have an aircraft carrier ,unreliable as it is, and
b ) don't have to ask France for permission to borrow it
And even that one gets towed around by a tug from time to time .
The Russian aircraft that was shot down was ambushed without warning in a sneak attack by a country they weren't even at war with , from whom they didn't anticipate any armed hostility from . That could happen to anyone's airforce . Very speedily the means and will to prevent it happening again were put in place . And it didn't happen again while the rate of bombing missions skyrocketed as a result, not diminished .
They may be using dumb bombs but their ..very..cheap and effective Glonass guidance system means they're quite effective for the job in hand . While they're not as accurate as the super duper , million dollar US weapons they still do a very reasonable job for a mere fraction of the cost . Particularly considering the targets they're deployed against . The Russians possess the western equivalent , super duper fancy kit too but they're not going to waste it on beardies in flip flops and toyota pick ups . That would only be used against a first world opponent .
And their air defences are formidable , probably the best in the world . They realised long ago they didn't have the resources to compete with the western production level of top level aircraft so they put their resources into countering them with missiles instead . Taking on their ground forces means getting through that lot first . And that's no certainty by any means .
The Russian military has been seriously upgraded in recent years . Even stuff like ritual bullying and the like has been stamped out . They're very well supplied and catered for. It's not a conventional superpower by any means but it's a very formidable opponent by any stretch of the imagination . They'll not be invading Chipping Sodbury any time soon but that's not their purpose to begin with .
mauvais
on reddit or something
Are you going after the Comical Ali award for military PR?
Anyone can get shot down but the circumstances of the Turkish incident suggest to me that planning, equipment and interconnectedness are very much not on a par with modern international military operations, rather more like the untidier times of the Cold War. That may be unfairly reading too much into a case of bad fortune but I think it's a fair indicator.
I don't for a moment buy that they're running an austere military campaign in Syria because ISIS etc don't merit the cash. The west certainly isn't. This is global politics and projection of military power. And I'm well aware that on paper they have a matching top trumps card for most Western kit but it struggles to leave that paper, half built or mothballed.
And I'm not at all suggesting Russia is an easy target at home, I'm sure it's domestic capability is formidable, but it's not a strong force in terms of international offensives (not many are) and this episode is demonstrating that, whatever you might claim.
Anyone can get shot down but the circumstances of the Turkish incident suggest to me that planning, equipment and interconnectedness are very much not on a par with modern international military operations, rather more like the untidier times of the Cold War. That may be unfairly reading too much into a case of bad fortune but I think it's a fair indicator.
I don't for a moment buy that they're running an austere military campaign in Syria because ISIS etc don't merit the cash. The west certainly isn't. This is global politics and projection of military power. And I'm well aware that on paper they have a matching top trumps card for most Western kit but it struggles to leave that paper, half built or mothballed.
And I'm not at all suggesting Russia is an easy target at home, I'm sure it's domestic capability is formidable, but it's not a strong force in terms of international offensives (not many are) and this episode is demonstrating that, whatever you might claim.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Russian planes were flying very close to the Turkish border . They were continually being electronically painted by Turkish aircraft from within the Turkish border . They knew the Turks were there and electronically targeting them but simply did not expect to be attacked by them . Nor we're they in turn threatening Turkish aircraft in Turkish airspace .
The Russian planes were bombers, they didn't have a fighter escort because they didn't think one was necessary . Al Qaeda not having an airforce . so the Turks had the ability in that instance to fire from within their own territory and immediately skedaddle .
After that incident it was made clear to the Turks that if one of their aircraft even looked funny at a Russian aircraft again it would be shot down ,even if it was well within Turkey . The measures were put in place to counter any attack or anything that even resembled an attack . And from that day to this the Russians have operated completely unmolested along the Turkish border . No pinging or aggressive gestures against them at all . In effect you have Russia dominating Turkish airspace along that border . Turkish planes have to ensure well inside in their own airspace they don't pose any potential threat to Russian forces .
Your argument seems to be equivalent to Bruce Lee being a crap fighter because some bloke he'd been chatting to in a pub sneaked behind him a crowbar and clobbered him when he wasn't expecting it .
As regards the wests military campaign in Syria just compare the intensity of the Russian campaign to the western one . The Russians are flying non stop bombing missions . Many coalition sorties don't even drop a bomb .
This is laughable for instance, particularly against the backdrop of food banks in British cities.
Exclusive: RAF Brimstone Missile Has Not Killed Any Isis Militants In Syria, And Only Seven Hit By UK Bombs | Huffington Post
And this gives you a very good idea regarding the difference in the volume and tempo of attacks between the Russian side and the western/ gulf coalition .
Russia Deploys Anti Aircraft Missiles to Syria: US Bombing Fades; British Bombing Stops
Russia carried out more air attacks in a 3 day period than the entire western coalition did in a 3 week period in the same month .
The Russian planes were bombers, they didn't have a fighter escort because they didn't think one was necessary . Al Qaeda not having an airforce . so the Turks had the ability in that instance to fire from within their own territory and immediately skedaddle .
After that incident it was made clear to the Turks that if one of their aircraft even looked funny at a Russian aircraft again it would be shot down ,even if it was well within Turkey . The measures were put in place to counter any attack or anything that even resembled an attack . And from that day to this the Russians have operated completely unmolested along the Turkish border . No pinging or aggressive gestures against them at all . In effect you have Russia dominating Turkish airspace along that border . Turkish planes have to ensure well inside in their own airspace they don't pose any potential threat to Russian forces .
Your argument seems to be equivalent to Bruce Lee being a crap fighter because some bloke he'd been chatting to in a pub sneaked behind him a crowbar and clobbered him when he wasn't expecting it .
As regards the wests military campaign in Syria just compare the intensity of the Russian campaign to the western one . The Russians are flying non stop bombing missions . Many coalition sorties don't even drop a bomb .
This is laughable for instance, particularly against the backdrop of food banks in British cities.
Exclusive: RAF Brimstone Missile Has Not Killed Any Isis Militants In Syria, And Only Seven Hit By UK Bombs | Huffington Post
And this gives you a very good idea regarding the difference in the volume and tempo of attacks between the Russian side and the western/ gulf coalition .
Russia Deploys Anti Aircraft Missiles to Syria: US Bombing Fades; British Bombing Stops
Russia carried out more air attacks in a 3 day period than the entire western coalition did in a 3 week period in the same month .
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The joke in the military is 'fitted for, but not with...'
Sounds like very similar kit that I was playing with then... Wouldn't be that same one that cheated at Fairford with the B2?...
coley
Well-Known Member
Most of the formerly productive areas of the UK, fuck all strategic targets for Russian ICBMs, Sunderland, Middlesbrough ect should be fairly safe-
Nylock
I hate 'these days'...
New Zealand
2hats
Dust.
Are you referring to the story about Rapier kit that tracked a B2 at short range from its IR signature (not radar in that case)? The hardware I saw was being developed in a university (civilian) radar research group.
DownwardDog
Riding a Brompton with a power meter.
This is wrong. The vast majority of weapons expended in Operation Syrian Svoboda are FAB-250/500s which are not guided by Glonass or anything else beyond gravity and the warm Levantine winds.
DownwardDog
Riding a Brompton with a power meter.
It's entirely useless when it's under tow as they have to get 25+ knots windspeed over the bow for aircraft launch and recovery.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I'd heard that those warm Levantine winds are at least the equal of GPS
DownwardDog
Riding a Brompton with a power meter.
There would be little to choose between the Royal Navy and Russian Navy when it comes to blue water operational capability. It's almost zero for both of them. The food and heads might be slightly less nightmarish in the British Navy.
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